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 Post subject: I want no more quest games..
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:22 am 
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Hmm. A thought occurred to me the other day. I thought that perhaps maybe I wouldn't want to see any more installments of remakes of Sierra's quest series.

Nononono, don't get me wrong! The remake projects of AGD is something different entirely. That's because they are fanmade projects made out of love for these old games and stand as celebrations for every fond memory we ever had of them, without commercial interests.

However, I wondered how it would be if there was suddenly word of new "Larry's" and King's quests in the making. I wouldn't want to see it. Because even if there was a time when these games were cutting edge, or close to it, that golden era is now long overdue.

I felt dissapointed after Mask of eternity, QFG5 and even slightly embarrased after the latest Larry installments. It's like watching Liza Minelli on stage today, trying some new things, and then sing "New York, New York". To ensure good sales you have to combine the new technologies and methods of gameplay but at the same time stay faithful to the series.
QFG5 felt very amiss to me. They didn't have the budget to produce a graphic 3d wonder, at the same time as they really wanted to target every fan of the series that still existed. It felt almost frantic how they clumped together all the characters from the early installments.. See, there's Toro. See, see! You remember, right?
And Rakeesh, Erasmus, Fenris, Julanar and all the others are there too!!

There's a saying that you should never return to those places where you were happy when young. It will not be the same or you will not be the same, whatever.

Reminds me of Star Wars and how great the title "Phantom Menace" really was... You shouldn't chase ghosts. That's it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:28 pm 
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Mask of Eternity and the latest Larry aren't really point and click adventure, so is hard to compare with any of the previous King's Quest games. That you didn't like Qfg5 is really your own personal taste, but it was true to the fashion of Qfg.

Gabriel Knight III is in my opinion the perfect example of what p&c adventure should be in these days. That game did have commercial interest.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:39 pm 
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It felt almost frantic how they clumped together all the characters from the early installments.. See, there's Toro. See, see! You remember, right?
And Rakeesh, Erasmus, Fenris, Julanar and all the others are there too!!


Blame the fans for that one. Sierra held polls asking people which characters they wanted to see gain and everybody had a few requests to make. The Coles attempted to please everyone and in the end ended up pleasing no one.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:10 pm 
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They please me with Erana oh so sexy and powerful. :rollin  :lol

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 Post subject: Quest for...well...more Quest for Glory?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:44 pm 
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Yeah, I remember that Erpy...fans giving feedback on what they wanted. It was kind of a cool thing for a (relatively) large company to do...but you've really got to give creative freedom to the writer/designers. When fans fall too much in love with characters, you *want* to see things happen that really aren't in the best interest of the overall story arc dynamic.
Then the fact that there were SO many returning characters kind of detracted from the development of them individually. I mean, Katrina had to be one of my favorite characters (and Lori's from reading interviews), and while she got some great atmospheric treatment in QG5 (the music on her "home" screen is just AMAZINGLY fitting!), you really don't get to delve too deep into the character. Same thing with Erana, so on & so forth. Actually now that I think of it, who DID get the most character development treatment in 5?

I really do miss Quest for Glory, but the original poster of the thread has a point...I'm not sure if it would be good to see all the series of Quest games revived by their "mother companies". Even if by twist-of-fate the Cole's were able to secure the rights to the series, I don't know if an online QG world would really feel right or not (which I think is the direction Lori had mentioned she would have wanted to take it?). QG is really a story-driven series, and mmo games don't have that book-feel because they have no true ending. I'd be excited and likely buy resurrected Quest games, but I don't know if it would work.

What do the rest of you think? Erpy? Navy? AGD's?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:06 pm 
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I think Elsa got the most character development in Qfg5 I guess. Maybe it was a bit over the top concerning characters, but I really like the game somehow.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:06 pm 
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Hmm. Spikey has a point about Mask of Eternity. I have to admit that I think they were on the right track there even if it ended as a rather flawed game... It's an odd beast in all but it probably sold well even among people that were unfamiliar with the previous games. Clearly, those behind this one had a bit of vision and didn't feel the need to be all that faithful.

Gabriel Knight is the one series I feel would work fine having even more sequels. For me, it's the epitome of interactive fiction. Like great novels, I think they'd be timeless for anyone who enjoys the stories. If there would be another sequel that'd be great, but in that case, IMO it'd be for the better if the next installment would center on other characters than Gabe and Grace. An heir could lead a fresh start perhaps...

My point was that you can't make something novel and exciting if you are looking backwards most of the time. For QFG5, nothing rash was made, and johnb4467 put it rather elegantly that which I feel about the choice in  character inclusion.  

but what's that you say? An idea of QFG as an online experience.. If done correctly, that could be a huge success but in that case, they'd really have to be brave and show us something never seen before in adventure games. I don't know, many different kingdoms you could travel between. The ability to play a villain and plot against heroes perhaps. Or the ability to custom design campaigns involving unique adventure game puzzles inside the preset worlds where you can be the "lair villain" so to speak and command the evil forces against all those that want to face you...

Oh I can think of possibilities, but that would be in the here and now.. It would be nice to keep alot of the old skeleton but rid the timeline so that there are no "old aquaintances"(at least none that refer to things that happened in the past series) or things that only old fans would understand.. They'd all have to be freshly introduced again if you'd want to keep them.

PS. I've been on this board before but my username disappeared.. That's why I didn't introduce myself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:46 am 
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QfG5 ended up pleasing no one? That's news to me. It was my very favourite of the entire series...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:08 am 
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El Ravager wrote:
QfG5 ended up pleasing no one? That's news to me. It was my very favourite of the entire series...


Did you play QfG5 first?

But Shantzy's right. Rather than continuing a series, it would be better if they've started something new. Anything different from the games we knew would simply spoil the other games, unless they remake the entire series in the new style.

A good example of this would be Star Control III. I remember how we pressured for Star Control III to be made, but we meant it should follow up on the story that made an impact in Star Control II. In the end we got pretty art and special effects, but the story didn't really continue from SCII. Obviously everyone were dissapointed, although SCIII was a good game in its own way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:28 pm 
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qfg5 was no where near my favorite qfg game but it was better than the alternative, which was nothing. Could have been better, could have been worse. My 2 cents worth.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:01 pm 
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QG5 wasn't a BAD game by any means. I think more than anything else...it took itself too seriously. Shifting over to 3d, it seemed like they tried to get the environments & characters looking "real", instead of the artistic painterly feel that all the artwork had in the previous installments (and for me made them so endearing). Other than Lori not being allowed to develop her own independent (read: non-influenced) story, I think that hurt it more than anything else.
But the biggest thing to remember about QG5 is that, well, it never was really "finished". I think we'd feel a lot differently about the game if it had gone on to be the co-op/multiplayer game it was always intended to be. You look at places like the tavern in the game, and it seems all but empty -- but looking at the original plan, having your real-life buddies in there with you would have filled in "the gaps". Having to co-operate to beat the hydra would have been ten time as fun. Things like that.
You can just look at the game (characters seeming "small" & the screen never seeming filled, etc) and see that it screams multi-player intentions. It could have been a major step for the genre if it had been developed to "completeion" -- and there's a chance it might have even saved the genre...it may have given that new "angle" to adventure games that old-school adventure game creators are saying the genre needs to be [supposedly] "revived".
Just more thoughts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:31 pm 
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I think discontinuation of series being a good thing is bull. Gabriel Knight III has such an open ending that it's screaming for a sequel.  Gabe, Grace & Mosely are the best, and I really would like to know what happens after Rennes-le-chateau, as do many fans. I would really buy and enjoy games that are in the GK3 fashion, even if they were King's Quest, Quest for Glory or Pepper Pumpernickle's Adventures in Time. Fellow gamers tell me to "go read a book" all the time, but it's nowhere near the same thing.

Series like Gabriel Knight, because of continuation, can be used to develop more complex storylines, as the KQ9 team is probably doing right now. If you do it well, it can work out really great. such things can only work if you have all the time of the world, of course, which Sierra never gave to their development teams. Maybe the story of Qfg5 was thin, but still, the gameplay and all was great in my opinion.

KQ8 was horrible, I think. It took out ALL the elements which makes King's Quest so great. This is a game that didn't include any of the past main characters as a main character, even worse, there was only ONE main character. Bah. Destroyed everything great about Sierra adventures and was used as a measurement of King's Quest fandom out there. All lies, mistakes and stupidity.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:58 pm 
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Shantzy wrote:
I don't know, many different kingdoms you could travel between. The ability to play a villain and plot against heroes perhaps.


Sounds a lot like Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (a FANTASTIC rpg by the way).  Not exactly an adventure game in the classic sense of the category, but it is rife with the same quality story telling and great character development that games like the quest series are known for.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:52 am 
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QFG5 was a very good game, better than 4 in my opinion. As for MoE, it seemed more like what happens when you decide to "update" a classic game so that it's more popular with the masses. I don't think that the many Sierra series should be left the way they are. I can understand people's disappointment with what has happened to the games we know (MCL or MoE anyone?  :x ), but I think that these games would be better if they're continued.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:01 am 
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QFG5 was a very good game, better than 4 in my opinion. As for MoE, it seemed more like what happens when you decide to "update" a classic game so that it's more popular with the masses. I don't think that the many Sierra series should be left the way they are. I can understand people's disappointment with what has happened to the games we know (MCL or MoE anyone?   ), but I think that these games would be better if they're continued.


In my own humble opinion, it was possible that game manufacturers were always producing for the masses, it's simply different. Back in the late 80's and early 90's, adventure games were just a small part of the whole gaming deal... people still wanted arcade, action, puzzle, war sims, RPGs, and the whole lot. It's just that the popularity faded with adventure games AND they became more expensive and time consuming to produce. It is much easier to produce a whole lot of FPS games (not that it's a bad thing, Brother's in Arms is great) than a single adventure game.

Personally, the days of big companies making adventure games is over, and we all know it. The days of fan-made or amature games is in. I've downloaded a lot of games made with AGS recently and I believe they arae quite good. This is why adventure games will never truely die out, but simply move on to different hands.

Till next time stay cool  :smokin


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:18 am 
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Spikey wrote:
I think discontinuation of series being a good thing is bull. Gabriel Knight III has such an open ending that it's screaming for a sequel.  


GBIII is terrible. It completely destroyed the good name of the previous 2.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:20 pm 
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Yeah, well, as I said, a lot of it is personal taste. I thought that GKII was a crime against humanity.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:20 pm 
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On the first subject:  

I'm all for the continuation of quest games.  I think the reason why most games today are boring and dissatisfying is because of the lack of a real story.  And sure, Halo may have a story, but you don't have much to do with it.  Most action games are like that. Stories "on-a-rail."  Quest games have never been boring to me.  The "style," as not been so much the "adventure game" style, which includes your traditional point n' click, and inventory, so much as the style of the writers.  Which opens this genré up to limitless proportions, as far as flexibility goes.  I mean, could you even compare Monkey Island to King's Quest?  Or even Space Quest to King's Quest?  Not really.  The experience is novel every time.  So should Sierra classics continue to be revisited?  *shrug*  Wouldn't hurt my feelings.  And it wouldn't hurt my feelings to branch off into completely different ideas either.  

On the second subject:

Some people may think me crazy, but I liked both Mask of Eternity, and Quest for Glory 5.  As a matter of fact, I like them both a lot.  Don't get me wrong, I played all the King's quests' long before MOE came out, and I played QFG4 1st, and then 2, than 1 and 3, BEFORE playing QFG5.  
I think a lot of people disliked MOE because it wasn't a continuation of the King's Quest series, which I agree with.  I don't really consider it a King's Quest game.  But, I've beaten "Mask of Eternity" several times, because, it's just fun.  Even if, in reality, it was a sellout to the action genré.
QFG5 did have a different feel to it than the rest of the series, but as someone already said, it certainly was better than nothing.  And I believe kept much more faithful to its ancestor games than MOE.  I think that if QFG5 was done again today, it could have been spectacular.  It really was an ingenius way of doing things.  Sort of a 2d 3d.  The music is great, and the characters are charming.  

My cabbage-chewing is done.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:37 pm 
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Actually I'd say the music was downright phenomenal. I can't think of many games before it that were true orchestral. I love 1-4 soudtracks a bunch, but boy did QG5 take game music to a new level...
in fact that might even be a reason the "game" overall seemed out of proportion...parts of it like the music and sound effects were SO good that it just seemed like much of the rest was struggling along a bit.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:33 am 
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Nice to see that I'm not the only one who likes Qfg5.

Defiant1 wrote:
And sure, Halo may have a story, but you don't have much to do with it.  Most action games are like that. Stories "on-a-rail."


Yeah, but with Halflife, it feels kind of different. Oh wait, that's Sierra and involved auto-aim....  

Defiant1 wrote:
Some people may think me crazy, but I liked both Mask of Eternity, and Quest for Glory 5.  As a matter of fact, I like them both a lot.  Don't get me wrong, I played all the King's quests' long before MOE came out, and I played QFG4 1st, and then 2, than 1 and 3, BEFORE playing QFG5.  
I think a lot of people disliked MOE because it wasn't a continuation of the King's Quest series, which I agree with.  I don't really consider it a King's Quest game.  But, I've beaten "Mask of Eternity" several times, because, it's just fun.  Even if, in reality, it was a sellout to the action genré.
QFG5 did have a different feel to it than the rest of the series, but as someone already said, it certainly was better than nothing.  And I believe kept much more faithful to its ancestor games than MOE.  I think that if QFG5 was done again today, it could have been spectacular.  It really was an ingenius way of doing things.  Sort of a 2d 3d.  The music is great, and the characters are charming.  


Only he who thinks that KQ8 is a true continuation of the King's Quest series is a fool, not somebody who happens to like this game.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:44 pm 
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QG5 was good, but it was WAY too short. There was a lot of stuff that was cut out because they were going over budget. I think if they waited a year to start the project, they might have had more success building an engine like Gabriel Knight 3, which was probably the last *great* adventure game that I played (although I still don't like the idea of a free float camera, I prefer fixed cameras).

I also didn't like the use of a lot of older characters in QG5... it didn't really give you the feeling of excitement.... The girls would just sit around and wait for you, Rakeesh would always be sitting there in one spot as well and wouldn't do much. Toro's inclusion kinda ruined the mystique of Toro in QG1 where there was this huge bull you had to beat (and iirc he was hard).

QG3 on the other hand made you go and do a lot of cool stuff with previous characters. Uhara (sp?) and Rakeesh is one example, and you always had interesting encounters in the Katta's Tail Inn in QG2 when they had the Poetry/Dances.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm 
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Your all forgeting Erana and Katrina were the sexyist charecters in the game. :eek

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:42 am 
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I dunno. Assuming that Sierra was crazy enough to revive Quest for Glory, King's Quest, Space Quest or whatever, they'd pander to fans. The only reason that they totally butchered the style of Leisure Suit Larry was due to its subject matter fitting well with the 18-35 male target audience, if not the gameplay. The other games don't have such an appeal. They'd have to rely on old fans, and therefore, they wouldn't risk alienating them. However, there would have to be enough fans to make these games commercially profitable. Unfortunately, graphic adventure fans are a very small niche. :(

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:43 pm 
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Who says that was the target audience?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:07 pm 
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Erpy wrote:
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The Coles attempted to please everyone and in the end ended up pleasing no one.


Thats pretty bold statement for someone to make. You don't speak for everyone in the community.

I played QFG1 when it was released back then, and became an instant fan, I baught every QFG sequel as they came, and Quest for Glory 5 was the best of the lot. And the ending was good. Unlike Space Quest 6 for example.

I htink we should be glad that they thought that there was no real chance of a QFG6 so they made this one extra special with the lush graphics, amazing voice acting, one of the best soundtracks I've heard in a game... The list goes on.

People just hate QFG5 because of the battle system, its quite easy to master. People just complain people it isent as simple as clicking on symbol. I QFG has moved on from clicky clicky clicky combat. The system is decent, and not complicated, you can block and have 3 attack modes.

So I don't see what everyones problem is?

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