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How much would you pay for a new Sierra Adventure?
0-$10 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
$10-$20 20%  20%  [ 14 ]
$20-$30 19%  19%  [ 13 ]
$30-$40 23%  23%  [ 16 ]
$40-$50 32%  32%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 69
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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:28 am 
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I don't think this is a problem you can easily solve. I still think most big companies as greedy jerks who just care about profits. That may not be true but it comes off that way alot. If a hundred people stop stealing a major game and go out and buy it, I can't see company saying "Oh the got the message that they're hurting the industry by stealing the game, so lets lower the price of it now so it will be reasonable for everyone." Instead they'll say "Oh this game is selling great, people are willing to buy it so lets sell all our new games at this price from now on." I understand what you guys are saying, but I supported the adventure game industry for years, and I was rewarded with Sierra and Lucasarts to halt production in that area. All it seemed like they did was start making what was popular shootem up games and star wars starfighter games, because that's what was popular. It's like watching a good tv show into a cliffhanger episode and then find out the show was canceled before the second part aired because of lack of interest. I still doubt the adventure genre died just because some people were pirating games because pirating isn't restricted to that one genre. There had to be quite a few other factors involved.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:07 am 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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Quote:
It's like watching a good tv show into a cliffhanger episode and then find out the show was canceled before the second part aired because of lack of interest.


More than likely because so many people download the episodes from bit-torrent rather than watching them on TV and contributing to the ratings. TV is a very fickle market as well, and if a series drops in ratings and viewers, the network will cancel it. Bit-torrent is a huge problem for all types of piracy.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:36 am 
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techie775 wrote:
I still think most big companies as greedy jerks who just care about profits. That may not be true but it comes off that way alot.


Back to what AGD2 keep on saying. It isn't about the big companies. These big companies won't even feel it when people 'spite' them. They simply let the guys at the bottom who created project go. Financial problem solved.

Quote:
I still doubt the adventure genre died just because some people were pirating games because pirating isn't restricted to that one genre. There had to be quite a few other factors involved.


Yes. Financial. Quicker to make 3D-shooters and racing games... just use the old code and add any new development. Change to new looking weapons and cars.

If the adventure genre was dead, what would you say is the reason that this genre and RPG genres are pirated and copied more than the other no-brain genre. Hmm.... perhaps that's the problem.

I'm pretty curious what the stats would be of the number of downloads for QfG2VGA. (Ok, it WILL be skew. There will be morons who will download the game and upload it to bit-torrent and other sources just for the joke of it... even though it is freely available.)


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:36 am 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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I don't mind as much if a free game gets spread across bit-torrent, as that brings in good publicity, but it WILL also make our download figures far lower (like TV ratings of shows that get torrented), so I'd still prefer people to download the game directly from the site so that we'll have realistic download figures to quote in the event that we can get into further negotiations with Vivendi. (Besides, Vivendi won't allow it to be released on bit-torrent, so we'll have to actively try to get those torrent links taken down - wasting even more of our time on something I'd prefer not to have to do). If fans want any positive impact from this, then please DON'T muddy the waters by downloading the game from bit-torrent when it becomes available. You'll be shooting yourselves in the collective feet!

Adventure games take an unbelievable amount of work to make. We're not taking it easy with QFG2, believe it or not. We've been working several hours every day for years on this. It really does take that much work to make an adventure game, and I can say without a doubt that piracy is the number one factor that scares developers away from this genre. Modern piracy techniques make producing an adventure game an incredibly risky venture, because they take so long and cost much MORE to produce than any other genre. (Basically like producing a movie from a development perspective due to their storyline nature.) Yet the budgets allocated for adventure games are appallingly small compared to other genres, as adventures are not as widely popular with gamers, meaning that every single adventure sale lost to piracy really does make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:

Yes. Financial. Quicker to make 3D-shooters and racing games... just use the old code and add any new development. Change to new looking weapons and cars.

If the adventure genre was dead, what would you say is the reason that this genre and RPG genres are pirated and copied more than the other no-brain genre. Hmm.... perhaps that's the problem.



Is it? What's the data on that? Low Sales? Cause people don't go announcing "Oh I illegally copied this game, chalk it up on your chart" I'm not saying you're not right, that piracy did hurt it but it seemed as the years went on there was less and less of an interest from people in adventure games so that might have been a factor too. I remember casually mentioning adventure games to people in like 95 and there was no clue what I was talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:10 pm 
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In other words, the genre didn't die, it just never have been?

In 95 you could have asked those same people about other games, and I bet they would have given you the same answer... or can you give me the stats to support that statement. :rollin


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Oh FFS. There are just as many adventure games produced now as their were in the "heyday" of the early 90's. The major difference is that there isn't just two companies making them now, there's a pile of them. The other thing is that computers (in my opinion thanks to Windows) are now mass produced and with the internet are sold to every person and their dog. My Mum owns a computer now for crying out loud. She can't even program her VCR timer. Back when adventure games were the big thing, computers weren't in every home, people had to know a certain level of computer-speak just to get a bloody game working in DOS. Now, it's click click click, you're on the internet surfing for porn. Mass market computers resulted in mass market games. Which means, games that don't take a huge amount of brain power to play, unlike adventure games where the object IS TO THINK. So our titles, the adventures we love to play, are relegated to the bottom shelf of the local Harvey Norman / Wallmart / EB Games / Whatever.

And let's keep the piracy thing in perspective shall we? Piracy is a massive issue NOW because of the internet with it's abandonware, torrents, p2p networks and the ease of using all of these things. My 9 year old nephew has a torrent program set up to get music. Back before the internet was such a huge part of computer-life, piracy was friends swapping disks and photocopying manuals. I think the two things are very different levels of theft.

And the other point I'll make is that what is now considered a popular title is vastly different from the days when Kings Quest 5 sold 100 000 copies and was classified the biggest selling game of all time. How many people own World of Warcraft now? The numbers are different, we can't compare the industry today with how it was 15 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:32 pm 
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Heh, all true. Even so, I'd be more than satisfied to sell as many copies of a commercial adventure game today as Sierra did back in the 1990's (such as KQ5).

But with the ease of widespread torrent downloading these days and crummy publishers who pull out of retail deals, it's just a lot harder for an independent developer to hit even those kinds of numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:
In other words, the genre didn't die, it just never have been?

In 95 you could have asked those same people about other games, and I bet they would have given you the same answer... or can you give me the stats to support that statement. :rollin



I don't know about stats... or was that part of the joke? No those people well knew the popular games they just thought I was talking about some secret unknown game when talking about an adventure game. I'm just saying as the years went on Adventure Games got less and less popular, at least in America, I don't know about Europe. I felt like I was playing something no one knew or cared about.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:02 pm 
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techie775 wrote:
Gronagor wrote:
In other words, the genre didn't die, it just never have been?

In 95 you could have asked those same people about other games, and I bet they would have given you the same answer... or can you give me the stats to support that statement. :rollin



I don't know about stats... or was that part of the joke? No those people well knew the popular games they just thought I was talking about some secret unknown game when talking about an adventure game. I'm just saying as the years went on Adventure Games got less and less popular, at least in America, I don't know about Europe. I felt like I was playing something no one knew or cared about.


IMO Europe has a VERY strong and large fan base for adventure games. Unlike here in the US, they actually have Ankh 2 and soon Ankh 3. I had to keep searching online for some online retailer that would allow for a download option for Ankh2, found one that had an English version almost 6 months after release. And AmazonUK would not ship to the US due to exclusive distribution deal with the develop and publisher. I went into a store and got blank looks from people that even told me that there is no sequel for Ankh out there. Likewise there is Runaway, that has made it to US shelves. There is also Broken Sword. All of these games have 'eye candy' appeal to them. Runaway, imo, is the better of the franchises, but that is because I am a big fan of drawn instead of full 3d. But thats how it is, in Asia as I understand it they are pretty crazy about their WoW and real time strategy games. In Russia they are pretty crazy about turn based strategy. In US we have our shooters and MMOS. So the market is a pretty big factor in determining which game genres are 'dead' and which are flourishing. I think the N. American market would be ready for some adventure games but trying to convince companies of that is close to impossible. Even with sales shooting through the roof you would be dismissed as a mere and temporary fad. (Look at how Wii was dismissed by most major game developers as too casual even though the sales kept and still are climbing and it is still hard to keep the thing stocked on the shelves for long.)

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text?


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:16 pm 
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I just received my special package of Al Emmo and I must say it looks stunning. Very professional, with a signed card as well. I'm going to try it later today to see if the game itself is just as good. If so, the money is very well spend. If not, than its good to know that developers of games such as KQ1&2 and QFG2 finally earn some money with all the time they spend on game development.

Just out of curiousity, did you guys ever made public what percentage of the total price is for yourself?


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:46 pm 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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Hey, thanks for the support! :D

If the game is bought from the Himalaya website or Himalaya's eBay store, then we get around 80%-95% of the profit (we still have to pay the fulfillment house to keep inventory and ship copies out). On the other hand, if it's bought through an online download vendor, then we get something like 30%.


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 Post subject: Re: How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:48 pm 
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TV ratings are done by people who agree to install a piece of hardware to show what their watching, or else through test groups who travel to a place to watch a show and give feedback. I doubt it would matter if every person other than these groups downloaded every show from torrent sites. They just don't matter.

Still, one could use THOSE to extropolate how many people actually are watching.

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