How much would you pay for a Sierra Adventure Game Nowadays?

[calethix]

I voted 30-40 but there's some conditions there but there's a lot of conditions that factor into that.

Back in the day, I remember paying $40 for games like KQ4 when I was in school with little disposable income so that doesn't seem too outrageous.

Aside from that, here's some reasons I may be inclined to spend less:

1. Usually when I buy games now, they come out at $50 new and I wait until the price drops to the 30-40 range or I try to get it used unless I really really want it.  In other words, I'm cheap.

2. Browsing through the PC software anymore, there's tons of games in jewel cases that go for around $10 and look decent (e.g. Syberia 2)

3. Reputation.  Back then, I could pretty much guarantee I'd like anything Sierra put out, especially if it was an existing series like Space Quest or Hero's Quest.  No offense to Al Emmo, but I'd guess the average person (not me personally) would be hard pressed to spend $40 on a game surrounded by a shelf full of others that are cheaper and look to be the same quality.  Maybe AGDI is more popular than I realize so this won't be an issue.

I thought I had some more reasons as to why I might spend more money on a game but after typing all those others, I forgot what the 'spend more' reasons were.

Oh, just thought of one.  I really enjoyed The Longest Journey and plan on buying Dreamfall as soon as it comes out.  That's putting a positive spin on the #3 reason above.  For me personally, the agdi remakes have me interested in Al Emmo.

[Paladinlover]

al emmo hasnt even begun testing yet so it might be some time before you will need to buy it

So what? It isn't going to stay that way forever. It'll be out before we know it and we'll play it until we get sick of it (which would probably be a long time from now considering the quality standards of the AGDs )

Seriously, waiting several months before Al Emmo comes out is fine with me since I will definately have more than enough finances to pay for the game and anything else they could have to offer to spare!

Till next time stay cool  :smokin

[haradan]

Honestly, I love my old computer games and I keep playing them, but I'm not much into today's games. If I'd find a new Sierra game today, I probably woudn't buy it at all.

Now, in this same line, I have to say I'm not very excited about Al Emmo.  :eek  BUT I'll buy it anyway, kind of a way of saying thanks to you guys that gave me these wonderful remakes of the games I love so much.

I hope I'm part of the minority and that adventure games come back with a vengeance, (not for me, for the genre itself), but if there's more people like me who appreciate you for what you've done and they buy Al Emmo on behalf of the remakes (What did I just say? Is that english?) anyway, my point is you should do OK with your sells, and I really hope so.

Cheers

[Mitch]

I would pay ALOT for an adventure game nowadays  

[MusicallyInspired]

Well, that small post definitely wasn't worth resurrecting a 2 year old thread.

[R.A.B.I.D.]

I would happily pay full-price for a new Sierra On-Line adventure.

[Quest For Glory Fan]

Well, that small post definitely wasn't worth resurrecting a 2 year old thread.

Everyone dabbles in a little thread necromancy when they first join and then it's over because they've skimmed everything they found interesting. I know I did it here once.

It's funny for this topic to come up as I just pilfered through a bin of ten dollar adventure games at Staples. Sadly I owned all of them, newer games like, "And then there were none" and "Broken Sword IV" just  to name a couple. The reality is these games are only a couple years old and they were there for 10 dollars. I've also noted Season one of Sam and Max has a reduced sticker price now as well.

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

Of course, what people say and what they DO are two very different things. This thread was started to evaluate the price at which people would be willing to pay for our commercial adventure game. Yet when we actually released it, we based the retail price on feedback given in this thread (as well as from other general adventure gaming sites and places).

Yet the initial price was balked at. And, in fact, more people ended up downloading it from bit-torrent than the amount of copies we sold, which is ultimately one of the main factors why QFG2VGA has taken so many years longer to finish than we had originally anticipated (both financially and motivation wise).

But if everyone who's ever said they'd pay "full price" for a Sierra-style adventure actually followed through on those words, then we'd probably be millionaires by now (really), who could afford to remake all the Sierra games. But since that's not the case, free games have merely crippled us.

[PValiant]

Well, I can say for myself that I would pay for a game such as Kings Quest or, even more so, Police Quest or Quest for Glory.

It really depends on the theme as well. I never was into Space Quest either. Moreover its always more difficult to sell the games without a "brand".

That said, I really like your work and would sponsor (pay up front) for a game provided I liked the theme. Even more so if I received a piece of the original art

Good luck with QFG2

[EZ]

Of course, what people say and what they DO are two very different things. This thread was started to evaluate the price at which people would be willing to pay for our commercial adventure game. Yet when we actually released it, we based the retail price on feedback given in this thread (as well as from other general adventure gaming sites and places).

So based on what you are saying, would it be proper to assume that you sold less than 51 copies of the game? Only 51 people voted in this thread, so if you got 51 sales, I'd say scientifically speaking this thread has served its purpose.

As someone pointed out two years ago, this thread is made up entirely of people visiting this forum. I'd be surprised if ANYONE who visits this forum regularly didn't buy the game. It's the people who don't visit that you really should have been targeting.

I don't know if this topic has been talked to death or not, so pardon me if I'm just re-starting something best left buried, but that's what happens when a thread gets resurrected. My opinion (admittedly an uneducated one) is that the problem with Al Emmo (if there was a problem, which, judging by the bitterness that seeping through the cracks of your post, there was) was marketing.

Wouldn't Telltale Games kind of be the modern equivalent of an independent, successful adventure game developer? At least, they haven't folded yet, leading me to assume they are reasonably successful. So what are they doing that you're not?

1) 3D.
2) Lots of advertising on strategically-placed sites. Like Penny-Arcade. And Steam's front page.

In my humble opinion... 3D has nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

Well, the results weren't just based from this thread alone. They were from various places such as the general consensus and tones in emails and guestbook entries too.

Likewise, there are other factors involved in why the game didn't do as well as anticipated, the main ones being that certain members of the community conspired to cast the game/development team in a very negative light, which I suspect was related to a major publisher pulling out of a North American publishing deal with us at the 11th hour.

Furthermore, TellTale Games did have Al Emmo available through one of their channels for quite a while as well, and although their channel REALLY helped to boost the sales and exposure that the game received, it still didn't do quite as well as expected because it really should have been on store shelves.

All things considered, I think the marketing we did alone on the game sold many more copies than we would have expected (on our limited advertising budget), and we do appreciate everyone who has bought a copy in order to help support us.

I just find it disappointing that some members of the very same community who accept all the free stuff we've offered, will be the very same members who attempt to sabotage a commercial fledgling attempt at trying to help the adventure genre by pirating the game or potentially damaging our publishing deals. And in doing these things, those people have succeeded in setting things back for us (and for QFG2VGA).  So, am I bitter about that. Hell yeah, I am.  But will it stop us from trying again? No way.

[DrJones]

Seeing so much talent and work not reaping benefits makes me sad.

[RC-Cola]

Likewise, there are other factors involved in why the game didn't do as well as anticipated, the main ones being that certain members of the community conspired to cast the game/development team in a very negative light, which I suspect was related to a major publisher pulling out of a North American publishing deal with us at the 11th hour.

Without asking who it was, why would anyone in the adventure gaming community want to conspire against you?  Were there reviewers who didn't get their expected payola, or conniving competing developers?

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

I was quite surprised by it when it happened, as it certainly was unexpected.  One reviewer had warned us in advance that regardless of the game being released, people (ie. the general public) are always going to be very picky towards it, and that we should be prepared for that.  He also warned that other smaller indie developers on discussion forums would often try to tear apart other indie games as well, believing that doing so gives them credibility in the public eye.

General criticisms weren't the problem I'm talking about, though. Because as as snide as they can be sometimes, those criticisms are all collectively helpful in refining future games.  The incident I'm talking about is one where a bunch of people latched onto the wording of our advertising or the promotional info mentioned in our bios, decided that they didn't like it for whatever reason, and then tried to run the game into the ground as a result. This is despite the fact that it had nothing to do with the game itself, and targeted the developers instead.  However, since this took place on a major forum, I guess it did create a negative perception of the actual game and resulted in people not buying it who otherwise might have (or pirating it).

The whole thing was just extremely disappointing, totally unexpected, and quite damaging. But oh well, onward...

[Solarkid]

Yeah, i just looked on bittorrent and sure it is Al emmo cracked by reloaded.
Honestly, i think its the sickest thing that anyone would actually download it from there. Its not like AGDI is a massive commercial business making millions. People who download that torrent are effectively like people stealing from a charity, given the incredible amount of hard work AGD has released for free to the public.

I am a 16 year old kid, as a result one can expect that im not the richest guy in the world and i admit i have downloaded a few things i shouldn't have in the past, but honestly i would rather shoplift than download this from Bittorrent.

I am so tempted to leave comments on the Bittorrent files claiming the cracks are viruses or something, might scare a few people away from downloading it from there rather than buying it.

Your post has moved me AGC2, i plan to buy your game as soon as i get my next allowance. I'll tell some friends about it too, but to be honest i doubt they'll be interested, since most of my friends are into the new games like Assasin's creed etc.

Dave

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

Well, I've been logging many of the IP numbers and ISPs of torrent downloaders and the exact times that they've been logged on, just in case we can use the info legally in the future. Unfortunately, we'd probably need a lot of money to chase it up though. But at least we have a record of users who have undeniably been seeding and sharing the game if it's ever needed.

Ironically, I've always believed that a small amount of piracy actually helps games. For example, I would have never played Sierra games if it wasn't for friends bringing over pirated copies of KQ and SQ in the 90's. But I eventually ended up buying them all.  Bit-torrent is a whole different kettle of fish, though. If your title ends up on there as an independent developer, then it's totally crippling since bit-torrent makes it so easy for thousands of people to download it for free. And if most people say "Yeah, well, I'm just checking it out; I wouldn't have bought it anyway" that doesn't get them off the hook either. Because A) they're helping distribute the game to others just by downloading it via bit-torrent; and B) If you wouldn't have bought it anyway, then why are you playing it? By downloading it from bit-torrent and playing it, you're actually doing more damage than simply not playing it at all.

People often ask if they can donate money to us for AGDI and the games we make here. We're not allowed to accept donations for this non-profit work, so we ask that if people want to make a donation, that they consider buying Al Emmo instead. This way, it supports our cause and you also get another adventure game to play for your money!

[greensenshi]

To me, computer gaming has always been a problematic business.  If I go to a local gaming store and browse their selection, I'll see a huge amount of titles, most of them priced in the $40-$50 range.  Only most of these games will be cheap knockoffs of other better games.  Therefore, I won't buy them.

A publisher has to prove themselves to me that they can make quality video games in order for me to spend money on them.  I'm not a rich person; I can't go around constantly spending $50 on a game if I try it for a few hours and don't like it.  That adds up to wasted money.  So I read reviews, see what others think before I make a decision.  Or I find someplace to download the game to try it out.  Yes, it's illegal and it's only contributing to more pirating.  But if I like it, then I will go out and buy the game.  

I'm a gamer with not a lot of money.  It doesn't justify illegally downloading games, but pirating CAN help a company rather than hurt it.

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

True, but if a demo has been made available for a game, then there's no reason to pirate the entire thing to determine whether you'd want to buy it or not.

[DrJones]

There are many problems. For instance, free games attract many broke students and people "against the system" (can't find the term in english), which are bulky but aren't really customers.

Another problem is that people is really lazy, so buying the game should be made as easy as you can (at least as easy as downloading it illegally). Many people work by impulses, too, that's why stores put products at the till. I think that if Id Software had so success, it's because the first chapter was free, and the option to buy the full game came right after the end of the game (when you are in full mood to continue playing) and because buying was as easy as marking a phone number.

I also think that Illegal downloads increase exposition, which is pretty important because in this world "popular >>>>>>> good", but that usually benefits the next product, while hurting the current one. An additional problem is that games aren't like music, in which you can support your artist by going to their concerts. It can bring you the attention of a software publisher, though.

But I really shouldn't be talking about how to run a business as I have no experience whatsoever with it. You guys are great!

Maybe Vivendi doesn't allow you to put advertise on the game, but you might be able to put an option that shows advertise on the installer. I've bought some games from my favorite games developers that way.

[Gronagor]

Uhm. DJ. How much easier can it be to pay on the net and download directly? Which is and was an option. THAT is far from an excuse.

You can even pay for it and have it at your doorstep in a day or two if you want the box.

Let's be upfront. Many people in this community cheered them on telling them they would definitely purchase the game with its release, whether they wanted to play the game or to motivate the team to finish QfG2. When the game was released, all these big mouths dissapeared. Probably shell-shocked, not expecting these guy working on several products at once to deliver.

Yeah well... there's a word for these type of people.

[Solarkid]

Though some of the arguements you make are valid DJ i think that they simply do not apply to small companies like AGDI because its just differences on a huge scale.
A large commercial game, selling in several stores, having a fan community and having many reviews for it, could possibly benefit from a mild amount of piracy, but a game like Al Emmo is a reasonably small-time project without anything like the amount of business that these large games have.
For this reason, piracy is only going to damage Al Emmo.

I just had a thought AGC2. There's a demo for Al Emmo, would it be at all possible to arrange for that to be put onto bit torrent? After all there will be some who download it to 'try it before they buy it' maybe they are unaware of the demo's existance? I just figure if the demo appears directly below the full game on these torrent sites, some people might just click on it instead and you may reduce full game piracy, and incease sales.
After all, Bit torrent can be used legally.
Dave

[DrJones]

Though some of the arguements you make are valid DJ i think that they simply do not apply to small companies like AGDI because its just differences on a huge scale.
A large commercial game, selling in several stores, having a fan community and having many reviews for it, could possibly benefit from a mild amount of piracy, but a game like Al Emmo is a reasonably small-time project without anything like the amount of business that these large games have. For this reason, piracy is only going to damage Al Emmo.

I guess I didn't expressed myself well.
I was merely saying that many of the benefits of piracy can't be applied to Al Emmo.

Also, it can be thought that people pirating your games just weren't going to buy them in the first place, but it's still demolishing. The problem about selling entertainment can be illustrated with this photo of a stadium.

Right now the industry has tried to crumble the houses behind, blocking the view with high walls, sending thugs to the building, have people not to notice there's free view nextdoor, giving prizes and beverages to people on the stadium, tell the people on the buildings that the business will not be profitable that way (this is true, but this will never convice them!), or telling them that there's plenty of free entertainment on the tv that they can see instead (among others).

They are now trying to make people wear special glasses all the time, that become dark when you try to see a game you shouldn't (but open to abuse), and making all people on town pay a sum for each game, even if you don't watch it, and regardless of quality. In my country they are doing all the above simultaneously. They are a mafia!

At the end, it's just two groups of bad people trying to rob each other, and we are caught in the middle taking all the hits.

[EZ]

Well, I've been logging many of the IP numbers and ISPs of torrent downloaders and the exact times that they've been logged on, just in case we can use the info legally in the future.

Phst, dudes torrenting Al Emmo is sick? No, THIS (quoted) is sick. Hopefully in time, outdated and poorly-conceived laws will be replaced with more modern and sensible ones, and the information AGD2 has collected will be made useless... but there's still something very, very wrong with how some people think. (Heck, maybe it's me who's thinking wrong... your call.)

I didn't torrent Al Emmo. But I might have, since I torrent a lot. And if I did, and I read this, I would be pretty offended. Recording the IPs of your own fans? I liked your games, spread the word, and eventually gave you money, and it's possible my IP would be in your logs... ready to be handed over on a silver platter to anyone who could punish me for wanting to sample the amazing work you've done.

Torrenting certainly has the possibility to make it look like, uh, "intellectual property holders" are somehow losing. But there's been a lot more examples of the contrary, especially in the independent scene. There are many, many good reasons for torrenting a game, and it's absolutely impossible to know that Al Emmo torrents actually hurt the sales or reputation or anything at all. Of course, it's absolutely impossible to know that it helped, either.

Ultimately, the real problem with that attitude (disclaimer: in my opinion), is that torrenting isn't going away and negatives attitudes will not get you anywhere. You wrote down the IPs of your own fans. Sure, some may not have been big fans. But everyone who downloaded it is someone who was interested in your work, even if they had never heard of you. If that's not a fan, I don't know who is. Because of your negative attitude, you mistrust your own fans, you try and get them in legal trouble somehow, all because of an opinion.

How about, instead, you adopt a positive attitude? Face reality: Any game you will ever make, with any copy protection, for any price, will be available as a torrent if it's easier to torrent it than to obtain it via some other means. I've seen torrents of the free Radiohead album simply because some people didn't want to go through the sign-up process to receive their copy (or for the better reason of wanting a better quality rip). There's no escape, so embrace it. Treat those thousands of downloaders as fans, not criminals.

Thanks for reading, apologies for the rant, but I feel pretty strongly about this. (You couldn't tell, right?)

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

Okay, so would you just allow a 'fan' to go through your house and steal your stuff? If I nonchalantly freeloaded your TV and stereo from your house, you're not going to file a complaint against me with the authorities?  I have no qualms whatsoever about collecting IP numbers of people who are effectively stealing from us and knowingly distributing something that took over 3 years of hard work to create. You say "trust the fans" but if the "fans" are doing that, then quite clearly, they cannot be trusted!  If you're downloading a torrent, then you're fully aware that you're giving our game out to other people without our permission. What's the point of a person paying for the game in the first place, if they're just handing it out to 300 other people via bit-torrent?  That's not supporting us, and it totally defeats the purpose.  If people want to try the game before they buy, then that's why a demo's been made available.

Honestly, I try to get the torrent links taken down whenever they appear first, but as you say it's like fighting a losing battle and there's really no other way for a small independent company to fight it other than to do this. If people want free games, then download our AGDI stuff, but don't steal our commercial titles.  I wouldn't mind as much if it's just like, a friend burning it to a CD and giving it to another friend every now and then. But it's pretty obvious that torrents are causing us huge damages. A shame really. Suffice it to say, if you don't want your IP recorded, then simply don't steal and distribute our stuff.

--EDIT--

By the way, we didn't include any copy protection with this game, since we didn't want to inconvenience true fans with troublesome installation procedures, as we knew the game would inevitably end up cracked on bit-torrent anyway. But I really think most real fans in this relatively small community would not be torrenting the game in the first place. More likely, it's those people who horde pirated games. They see a new game listed on bit-torrent and then download it, even if they never intend to play it. It's the 'sharing and distributing' aspect that bothers me more so that the piracy itself.

[EZ]

Okay, you made a couple points but I'm not sure I disagree with you on any of them. I mean, I do -- to me, you can never own something that can be freely copied, so the thief metaphor just falls apart because you and I think on completely different levels when it comes to intellectual "property" (you probably wouldn't include the quotes).

However, the point I was trying to make was that our opinion on intellectual property doesn't matter. Reality does. As much as I love my idealistic belief that "information wants to be free," I am also a realist. I work for a bank developing proprietary software. I don't believe this makes me a hypocrite, I think it makes me a realist. Whenever possible, I try to support free software, to contribute to it, and to support those who develop it. But I have rent to pay, and the work environment is great, and if I don't do it, someone else will. So I face reality and develop proprietary software. If this sounds melodramatic, please forgive me, it's not supposed to: we all make these sorts of decisions every day. We believe in something, but sometimes that belief conflicts with reality... you might think your friend is wrong for saying what he did, but you support him/her anyway.

In the same sense, I think to fight piracy is to fight a growing reality. What I said above about intellectual property might disagree with your beliefs, but you and I agree on some things as well, like, for example, that you should be paid for your work. If someone pirated Al Emmo and played it past the point available in the demo, I agree that they should pay you unless they have a good reason for not doing so. But if they don't -- I don't think you taking their IP improves anyone's situation.

To return to the thief metaphor, if a friend of mine goes through my house, admires my choice in furnishings, and then uses a furnishing-cloning machine to create exact copies, I certainly wouldn't mind. See how metaphors can turn on you so quickly? Of course, the real loser in my story is the manufacturer of the furnishings. So I would urge my friend to either destroy the cloned furnishings immediately, or else pay for them (hopefully he can arrange for a discount since they didn't have to spend any manufacturing costs), but I would NEVER call the police on my friend and accuse him of stealing... not even in a normal case, but certainly not in this case when the situation is in grey legal waters anyway. I'd be mighty embarrassed if he ended up being aquitted and wouldn't want to be my friend anymore because I sold him out.

So, to bring this metaphor full circle: Whatever my, or the manufacturer's, thoughts on the furnishing-cloning my friend is doing, besides politely trying to guide him to the path we think is right (pay the inventor) in private, the real challange we face is the furnisher-cloner. Everyone's buying them! Soon the manufacturer will be out of business and everyone's furnishings will look like mine (because I have such excellent tastes, of course)! What's to be done? Well, there is no easy answer, but the most painless thing for everyone involved would be for the furnishing manufacturer to come up with some way of adjusting to the way the world has changed thanks to that ridiculous furnishing-cloner. They might begin to develop furniture that can be easily painted or modified and to charge for paint or modification services. Or try other things until some business model works. Or doesn't work! maybe they do go out of business. Sucks. Change is not always good. But what would the company win by calling the police on my friend? They'd go out of business faster thanks to lawyer's fees, and never even TRY to survive the change that the whole world is undergoing.

Meanwhile, in order to combat everyone cloning my furnishings, I begin to personalize them with my name. That way, most people, even though they like my furnishings, don't want them because they have my name on it. It's not the optimal solution but we sometimes have to pay a small price to live in society, like taxes for example.

Hopefully I didn't take that metaphor TOO far...