Hybrid Characters

[ChaosBurnFlame]

That's exactly what usually bothers me when people mention the term "jack of all trades". The full saying goes something like: "a jack of all trades and a master of none". If someone has a character who has mastered every skill, he no longer really fits that description. It takes away from the idea that the player has to plan his playing strategy around the characters' weakness. It's kinda like playing Team Fortress as a scout/sniper/medic/heavy weapons guy-hybrid who can heal, snipe people from afar, deal heavy damage up close and run at insane speeds. Of course they'd own every other class, because they have all the advantages of the other guys, but none of the disadvantages.

I think spending all that extra time(and there IS a lot of time) in maxing out every skill pretty much equals out the cries of an unfair advantage.  It takes actual real hours a day in maxing out stats.   And maxing out eveyr single stat, maxing out every single spell, and casting zap on 100 throwing spears is pretty much a labor of love(and so worth it for a really quick takedown of the Dragon of Doom).

[Erpy]

But only because all skills have stat limits. (usually upped by 100 in every next game in the series) A hybrid with all skills would be stronger than a pure fighter, simply because his total experience count is higher. If there were no stat limits and both characters would spend an equal amount of time training, we'd have a hybrid with all stats in the game at 500 versus a fighter with only his inheritant stats around 1200 and neither would be a sure bet for victory.

Of course, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play hybrids, I'm just stating that a character with no weaknesses whatsoever is as well-balanced as an intoxicated hippo on a tightrope.

Although I should say that QFG still maintains A BIT of balance at times by only letting certain classes access certain sidequests.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

But only because all skills have stat limits. (usually upped by 100 in every next game in the series) A hybrid with all skills would be stronger than a pure fighter, simply because his total experience count is higher. If there were no stat limits and both characters would spend an equal amount of time training, we'd have a hybrid with all stats in the game at 500 versus a fighter with only his inheritant stats around 1200 and neither would be a sure bet for victory.

Of course, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play hybrids, I'm just stating that a character with no weaknesses whatsoever is as well-balanced as an intoxicated hippo on a tightrope.

Although I should say that QFG still maintains A BIT of balance at times by only letting certain classes access certain sidequests.

I know, which upsets me.  I wish my paladin had whirlwind and summon staff.

[Erpy]

Interestingly enough, that very thing is perfectly acceptable to me. Since the development team basically went the extra mile to make 3 games in 1 without extra budget, it's only fair players also get to go the extra mile by having to play through the game more than once before having seen everything there is to see.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

I agree, it is a good idea.  I just think that, for those that want to create jacks of alltrades, it should be possible... hard as hell, but possible.

In fact, I am in the process of writing a comic with a very QfG based theme, and the main character is seeking to become a hero that struggles to become a jack of all trades.

[Brainiac]

I wish my paladin had whirlwind and summon staff.

He can get Whirlwind.  At the completion of QfG5, the only three spells non-Wizard classes cannot learn (without a hex-editor, anyways) are Summon Staff, Thermonuclear Blast, and Dragon Fire.

As to Erpy's full version of the "jack of all trades" line, it's true; a QfG hybrid is far less "balanced" than any other form.  A good example of a "true" jack-of-all-trades would be the Red Mage of Final Fantasy fame - the class is capable of using some heavy weapons and armor and can cast both white and black magic.  However, they are not superior in any way to another mage's magic ability or any tank class's physical ability.  Even the most supreme magic caster ever, the Sage of Final Fantasy III (the real one for the NES and being remade in 3D for the DS), though with the best magic power and the ability to cast both white and black magic as well as call down the most powerful forms of the summons, is a physical pansy (and the conterpart class, the Ninja, is the ultimate physical class but has zero magical ability).

There is one thing I always wondered though, and this question is basically a point of opinion, I think.  Should the Paladin be considered a character class of its own (thus effectively relegating the Fighter to a lesser position) or should it be considered an inherently hybrid form?

[Vroomfondel]

I've always thought of Paladins as hybrids simply because they have all their little "Paladin-magic". I don't think that I've ever given Paladins too much respect in QFG because their too much of a goody-goody class. Still, they are fun to play, although the "Holy Strength-Magic Ward" Trick at the end of QFG V was cheap!

[ChaosBurnFlame]

I wish my paladin had whirlwind and summon staff.

He can get Whirlwind.  At the completion of QfG5, the only three spells non-Wizard classes cannot learn (without a hex-editor, anyways) are Summon Staff, Thermonuclear Blast, and Dragon Fire.

HOW does he get Whirlwind?!

[rabadi]

Just a suggestion (sorry if this has been suggested or discussed before, too lazy to check), perhaps it is best to just complete a 1:1 remake at this point and release the game sooner. Additional quests not found in the original game, either for hybrid or for pure character, can be added as expansion pack or as the next version of the game.

[Vroomfondel]

Visit Erasmus, talk to him and leave. Go back and ask about magic. He'll give you Whirlwind.

just complete a 1:1 remake

They are.

[Paladinlover]

He can get Whirlwind.  At the completion of QfG5, the only three spells non-Wizard classes cannot learn (without a hex-editor, anyways) are Summon Staff, Thermonuclear Blast, and Dragon Fire.

The hex-editor is pretty hectic. I perfer the QFG 5 savegame editor.

It was made by a member of the really, really old QFG forums (and some old time members like Dreem and the Centaur of Sifnos were involved, too). For the life of me, I don't remember how I came by it, but I can't seem to find it anywhere else. I'm glad that I have it on my PC, though, and will be more than happy to share it with anyone who wants it.

Till next time stay cool  :smokin

[Vroomfondel]

Wait, I thought the hex-editor was a savegame editor. Is this what you use?

[Brainiac]

Hex editors are general programs that work on pretty much any program.  Savegame editors are uniquely designed for any game or series.  The one Paladinlover is referring is "Te'ja's Fantastic Saved Game Modifier!" as I recall, with credit given to the Centaur of Sifnos, the Master Paladin, Dreem, Rahul S. Kumar, and RiNK SPRiNGER (according to the program).  Various versions and other accessory programs can be found here.

[Paladinlover]

Nope, it's not a hex editor, but a dedicated program made for editing the inventory of your character in QFG 5. It doesn't edit the statistics, just the inventory and spells.

Of course, statistics are as easy as heck to master, they just take some time, that's all. Being able to get some stuff that you would otherwise not be able to early on, however, is the real treat -- as well as overcoming some silly bugs...

Till next time stay cool  :smokin

[Vroomfondel]

as well as overcoming some silly bugs...

I assume you're talking about getting the bow/magic bow? It always annoyed me that you couldn't beat the Hydra on your own and get the magic bow.

[Quest For Glory Fan]

my game just black screened whenever I solod the hydra.

[Paladinlover]

I assume you're talking about getting the bow/magic bow? It always annoyed me that you couldn't beat the Hydra on your own and get the magic bow.

Well, I suppose you could consider that to be a 'bug', but it seems more of a delibrate thing in the game rather than a bug.

Anyway, some bugs or difficult things that I'm talking about is, for example, getting the blackbird back from Wolfie after giving it to him in order for him to make a replica. I managed to get it back fairly once, but I'm not sure if I can repeat that again.

Other difficult things include getting stamina pills at the beginning of the game rather than have to get the pegasus feathers first. My first game day in QFG 5 is always 'running wild' and I usually max out as many stats that can be maxed out in that period of time. Also, I used it to get the dragon fire spell, something which I NEVER had before because I always rescued Erana and, as such, never had the chance to learn this awesome spell.

Hex editors are general programs that work on pretty much any program.  Savegame editors are uniquely designed for any game or series.  The one Paladinlover is referring is "Te'ja's Fantastic Saved Game Modifier!" as I recall, with credit given to the Centaur of Sifnos, the Master Paladin, Dreem, Rahul S. Kumar, and RiNK SPRiNGER (according to the program).  Various versions and other accessory programs can be found here.

Thanks for the link. Actually those editors I found in that link are interesting... I can't wait until my PC gets fixed so I can try them out!

P.S. I'm working on my dad's laptop at the moment.

Till next time stay cool

[Spikey]

He can get Whirlwind.  At the completion of QfG5, the only three spells non-Wizard classes cannot learn (without a hex-editor, anyways) are Summon Staff, Thermonuclear Blast, and Dragon Fire.

Oh yeah, what about the ritual of release spell? Oh wait..it vanishes.....

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Well, I just played through V and got Whirlwind AND maxed it out.

I am disappointed that maxing out swimming does nothing in increasing your swim speed or manuverability underwater.

oh well.

Also I can't help but imagine what QfG V would've been like with the VGA style.

[Paladinlover]

Well, I just played through V and got Whirlwind AND maxed it out.  

Maxing it out is easy. Just cast it constantly on one spot until you have max skill at it. The only spell that actually problematic to max out is the RIP spell as it would require an aweful lot of game time to do. Even though this is just a pixelated universe with fantasy characters in it, I still feel that many folk would actually disapprove of such a big waste of time on such an unimportant spell.

I am disappointed that maxing out swimming does nothing in increasing your swim speed or manuverability underwater.

oh well.

Yeah, swimming is pretty much the same whether your skill at it is 100 or 500. Still, my perfectionist view on gaming demands that I max it out regardless of its application.

Oh yeah, what about the ritual of release spell? Oh wait..it vanishes.....

There's nothing wrong with it vanishing. The release spell was highly specialized and done for one task only. Once the spell was used for its intended ritual it has no further need to exist. In QFG 5, the glide spell disappears, but at least they provide an expanation for it... just click the 'look' icon on the sea outside Science Island, it'll say that the glide spell would be useless on these waters. I would say that the hero still knows it, and if a QFG 6 comes out and he has to get over ponds or small rivers, I would daresay it would come back again as a castable spell!

Till next time stay cool  :smokin

[ChaosBurnFlame]

I have in my mind ideas of what QfG5 would've been like as a VGA point and click game.  

Mostly stuff like "If you're a Paladin, you'd be able to challenge the General to a duel".

But feh, we know that'll never happen

V just felt like an incomplete idea.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

and I agree.  I think in V, Honorshield should've been constantly on, like it was in IV, and the Paladin should've physically had Piotry's shield.  

Oh, and the platemail armor.  Why go through the trouble of hunting down all the wraiths if you don't get the reward of the most awesome platemail armor?

Also, my extra daggers should've transferred to V as well.  

Overall, I think V's import and item system is gravely unfair.

As is their 'equip' menu.  The designers added too many weapons of too many types, not to mention Final Fantasy-esque stat booster items.

Also, some sort of way to swim on the water's surface as opposed to always being submerged.

But feh, just pipedreams.

[Vroomfondel]

Also, some sort of way to swim on the water's surface as opposed to always being submerged.

Heh, I can just imagine the Hero doing the backstroke out to some island.  :lol

[Paladinlover]

Heh, I can just imagine the Hero doing the backstroke out to some island.

I doubt he would really make it. You see, the farther you head from shore, the more violent the waves and general turbulance tends to be far out at sea. Even in relatively calm seas like the Meditereanian (or "Med" as it is called in the game) can be pretty rough at times. This is why you hear people swimming through places like the English Channel (which is rather calm) but will never hear people swimming through places like the Atlantic or Pacific (the Pacific ocean is less choppy than the Atlantic, but the ocean swells more signifcantly).

and I agree.  I think in V, Honorshield should've been constantly on, like it was in IV, and the Paladin should've physically had Piotry's shield.  

Oh, and the platemail armor.  Why go through the trouble of hunting down all the wraiths if you don't get the reward of the most awesome platemail armor?

I agree on both points.

Also, my extra daggers should've transferred to V as well.  

Overall, I think V's import and item system is gravely unfair.

Ahh, but here comes the $64 question... how many daggers did you have from QFG 4? Also, do you really think it is necessary to get them? Daggers are actually cheap in QFG 5 and in all honesty, throwing weapons are nearly useless in the game (with an exception of killing dragonlings and the centaur mage (as well as the archers at the end game, but they can be mostly ignored).

So why do you think the item and import system in QFG 5 is unfair? Other than the 'I should be allowed to get all my equipment' part which affects all games of this sort, anyway.

As is their 'equip' menu.  The designers added too many weapons of too many types, not to mention Final Fantasy-esque stat booster items.

I agree with the over-abundance of weapons, it goes away from the traditional QFG idea that this is basically an adventure game with the combat playing a lesser role. Another question is this: Just how many people use the other weapons in the game, anyway? As a Paladin I would not use any other weapon than the Paladin sword, and as a fighter, I would have the 'Magic' sword until I am able to buy the dragonslayer sword, but I don't really need the Wurmbane spear unless I want to use it exclusively for underwater fighting (which is completely optional unless you're a fighter, and even then, only in one part of the game) and the only reason why the ice diamond sword is in it is to be able to give it to Elsa, or if you think that having it for the thief is better.

Axes are mostly useless. The magic axe is really slow and I never used the normal axe unless I was just experimenting and it found it to be worthless in fighting.

However, I disagree with the 'stat boosting items are bad', it seems perfectly acceptable to me. After all, this is a fantasy game and having stuff that would magically boost your abilities isn't really all that outlandish. My only problem is that you could only use one of those items at the same time. Would it not have been better to be able to use the Atlas Arm band combined with the amulet of defense/offense? That would be pretty good.

Also, some sort of way to swim on the water's surface as opposed to always being submerged.

I don't think that's necessary, such a thing would really be a waste of time or effort, but the fact that you could not surface at all (not even for a breath of air) is really stupid.

Till next time stay cool  :smokin

[ChaosBurnFlame]

and I agree.  I think in V, Honorshield should've been constantly on, like it was in IV, and the Paladin should've physically had Piotry's shield.  

Oh, and the platemail armor.  Why go through the trouble of hunting down all the wraiths if you don't get the reward of the most awesome platemail armor?

I agree on both points.

Good, I felt the game really screwed up the balancing with the Paladin.  A LOT of the extra Paladin abilities makes some areas TOTALLY unfair(like Destroy Undead makes the Hades part an absolute JOKE), and Peace AND Awe are redundant to one another.  I haven't EVER used Magic Ward and Awe is near useless and should be simply the paladin 'danger sense' text that automatically comes up.

Also, my extra daggers should've transferred to V as well.  

Overall, I think V's import and item system is gravely unfair.

Ahh, but here comes the $64 question... how many daggers did you have from QFG 4? Also, do you really think it is necessary to get them? Daggers are actually cheap in QFG 5 and in all honesty, throwing weapons are nearly useless in the game (with an exception of killing dragonlings and the centaur mage (as well as the archers at the end game, but they can be mostly ignored).

I had AT LEAST five daggers from 4.  And I also horded healing, and poison cure potions and mana fruits.  Didn't use a single one.   And in 5, I did find a good use for throwing weapons. Remember the second Rite? The spear wagon?   I loaded up 100 throwing spears, put them in my trunk in the inn for safe keeping until near the end of the game, cast augment and zap on them 100 times, and well.. lets just say I took out the Dragon in something like a minute.

So why do you think the item and import system in QFG 5 is unfair? Other than the 'I should be allowed to get all my equipment' part which affects all games of this sort, anyway.

Well, the shield and armor I do have a point in.  I also disliked how equipping items lowered your stats.  I mean, QfG had some SEMBLANCE of realistic stat building in that if you want to improve throwing, you threw.  But honestly, if you don't have a chainmail set of armor equipped, where do you think you hero has it?!  

As is their 'equip' menu.  The designers added too many weapons of too many types, not to mention Final Fantasy-esque stat booster items.

I agree with the over-abundance of weapons, it goes away from the traditional QFG idea that this is basically an adventure game with the combat playing a lesser role. Another question is this: Just how many people use the other weapons in the game, anyway? As a Paladin I would not use any other weapon than the Paladin sword, and as a fighter, I would have the 'Magic' sword until I am able to buy the dragonslayer sword, but I don't really need the Wurmbane spear unless I want to use it exclusively for underwater fighting (which is completely optional unless you're a fighter, and even then, only in one part of the game) and the only reason why the ice diamond sword is in it is to be able to give it to Elsa, or if you think that having it for the thief is better.

I hated each weapon having damage amounts.  Took away the fun of it.  

Axes are mostly useless. The magic axe is really slow and I never used the normal axe unless I was just experimenting and it found it to be worthless in fighting.

Yeah, the axes ARE useless.  HUGE damage, but the chances of actually getting a HIT OFF are near impossible.

However, I disagree with the 'stat boosting items are bad', it seems perfectly acceptable to me. After all, this is a fantasy game and having stuff that would magically boost your abilities isn't really all that outlandish. My only problem is that you could only use one of those items at the same time. Would it not have been better to be able to use the Atlas Arm band combined with the amulet of defense/offense? That would be pretty good.

It just isn't Quest for Glory. That's Squaresoft, not Sierra.  

Also, some sort of way to swim on the water's surface as opposed to always being submerged.

I don't think that's necessary, such a thing would really be a waste of time or effort, but the fact that you could not surface at all (not even for a breath of air) is really stupid.

Till next time stay cool  :smokin

I imagine if QfG 5 was a VGA game like the other Quests were, surface swiimming would come into play.