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 Post subject: Fighter, Wizard, Thief, Paladin and ... ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:34 pm 
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A post by Jontas in another thread got me thinking about what other possible classes would be in a new Quest for Glory game.  Assume that this would be a new brand of Quest for Glory with an unknown hero once more.  Now consider the four existing classes:

Fighter
The straightforward class, suited to beginning players.  The class which is designed to take up a sword and fight through most problems.

Wizard
The thinking class.  With his intelligence he is most suited to think his way through (or around) puzzles but he has the magic to back up his solutions with force or indirect action.

Thief
The backdoor class.  The opposite of both the fighter's straightforwardness and the paladin's sincere goodness with a mix of the wizard's indirectness thrown in.  His is the quiet path with lesser evils rewarded.

Paladin
The goodness class.  Direct, like the fighter, but caring, unlike the thief.  Of the four classes, he is the one most ready to sacrifice for the greater good and so is in the truest sense a hero.

Now, taking into consideration that the above four would exist in the new game, what new classes could be introduced?  What new features would they bring to the game?  Would they be straighforward or more puzzle-oriented?  For beginning or advanced players?

As additional discussion, how would these new classes have handled the existing games?  For example, how would a new monk class have viewed the monestary in QfG4?  Would he have found a useful item there?  How would other classes interact with the citizens of each game?  Consider that the thief is frowned upon in some groups, as is the mage (especially in QfG3).

Any thoughts on all of this?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:07 pm 
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I always thought a Centaur was a no-brainer, as was a Liontaur or a Katta. The Katta would be some form of Spirit magician, similar to a Cleric. Both Centaurs and Liontaurs would be proud fighter classes.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:35 pm 
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I wasn't really thinking about different races but that could be fun too.

Katta would be perfect.  He could get better deals from merchants (for some reason I've always seen Katta as good communicators - maybe because of the QfG2 merchant influence).  I wonder though if WIT would accept him in.  Do they deal with Clerics?  Anyone who uses magic?  I forgot the details about this (but there were no non-humans on the pictures in the hall).  As a Cleric, he would definitely get along with the healer in QfG1.  But perhaps in another game there would be a spiritual/voodoo group he could associate with.

My concern with the Centaurs and Liontaurs is that except for their race, they're pretty much the same as the human fighter and so their quests would be solved in the same way.  I think the Coles mentioned wanting Centaurs being playable at some point but I don't think they mentioned how their puzzle-solving strategies would be different.


Last edited by gamecreator on Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:37 pm 
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My Ideas: (All based on other games...)

Dark Knight
The Dark Knight is another "straightforward" class, like the Fighter, only that this guy can attack VERY strong, at the cost of his HP being drained quickly. The Dark Knight is viewed as an "Anti-Paladin", so most people don't think good of them. The Dark Knight as also an special attack attack that instantly kills his enemy, but drains 80% of his HP. This class can go on some of the thief's quest, and as he's "evil", he's unable to become Paladin.

Ilusionist
The Ilusionist is very weak and it's totally uncapable of fighting, so he has to set traps for his enemy. By example using the old trick of the bucket on the door? Emptying a box of nails on a floor previously covered with oil? This is a totally puzzle-based class, because of his inability to fight, most people don't take these very seriously until they taste one of his tricks. The Ilusionist also has the ability to hide on dark places.

Summoner
The summoner is kinda like a Magic User, but instead of spells, he summons monsters and creatures. The summoner starts with only a weak summon but gains the ability to use more and more summons as he beats them, by example, the Summoner could summon a goblin after he has beated it, and so on. Weak summons take little MP and Powerful summons take excesive MP.

Freelancer
The freelancer will be the jack of all trades, but master of none kind of character. He has decent fighting skills, but he'll never be as good as a Fighter, he can use magic, but has awfully low MP, so he can't use the most powerful spells, and he has agility and thief' skills, albeit low, and he uses stamina pretty fast.

Archer
The archer uses the bow. And his great agility and climbing associates him somewhat to the Thief. The archer starts with the Throwing skill pretty boosted up, but lacks magic, vitality and strenght. The archer is greatly admired by the people because of his skills with the bow.

Well, these are my ideas for now.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:20 pm 
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I think one important thing to consider for new classes is how they solve puzzles.  There are a lot of puzzles in the QfG games that all characters face, but each has his own general approach to it.  The fighter and Paladin use brute force (or throwing), the wizard uses magic, and the thief uses stealth (or lock-picking, climbing, etc.).  A new class should also have some typical approach to obstacles.

In this sense, the QfG games generally had only 3 classes, as the fighter was almost never made distinct from the Paladin.  He was mostly defined by what he couldn't do.  The fighter was given almost no side quests or unique solutions to puzzles.  The Paladin was better at actually fighting and just as good at bashing down doors and such.

Implementing races sounds like it'd be quite difficult.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:23 pm 
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I was going to post about this earlier too but I'm at work and had to get to something else.  It's easier to approach this from the RPG end but it's harder (but more fun, I think) from the adventure one.  I'd ask that you think about how each class would approach quests (that's why I brought up the past games at the end of my original post) and how he would differ from existing, and other new, classes.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:39 am 
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I remember discussing a potential mod for QFG long ago where a new ranger class would be added. This character would be like an archer, but would be able to forage for reagents for making potions and use his own equipment to catch small animals using traps he owns or makes (think of the fox in QFG1) and then cook and eat them. He would also be able to make his own arrows, but with a limit as to how many he could build in a single day and with a resource skill that limited how many arrows he could make from what he had. With the right reagents and knowledge, he could also create smoke bombs and other gadgets to assist him (i.e. use the smoke bomb to confuse a creature temporarily and then either shoot several arrows into them (the effect would last longer than Razzle Dazzle to allow this) or proceed to escape). He can acquire a more powerful bow at the dry goods store and some reagents that are not easily available to make him enter the town again at some point.

In short, he'd be like the thief, but with a naturalist slant and very self-sufficient (bit of sneaking, no lockpicking skill, no parry skill, throwing would be renamed to ranged weapons to allow archery, add a resource use skill, and would also carry a dagger like the thief and magic user for close-quarters combat).

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Last edited by Skyshark on Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:23 pm 
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We need a Liontaur fangame!  ;)


Anyway, I like the ideas, but it'd be difficult to implement them in QFG games, as they seem a bit too similar to the current classes. Still, it'd be cool for a QFG spin-off kind of thing.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:22 pm 
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I'd like to see the Slut.  He uses his sexual charisma to get him out of situations.


Bt

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:29 pm 
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HAHA good one

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 Post subject: Way to stroke my ego...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:55 am 
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I want a "bounty hunter", a sort of fighter/thief hybrid. The bounty hunter is interested in glory and reward; you love a challenge and will do anything if the price is right (even if the thief's guild is paying).

The bounty hunter can never be a paladin since you could never understand helping somebody or fighting for the sake of honor or justice, for you it's about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You could choose to approach puzzles as a fighter or a thief would, based on what serves your best interest as far as optimum glory and reward are concerned.

You could never be a master thief either, because you would never feel comfortable living in the shadows. You would have very little interest in magic because bounty hunters are hands on kind of people, who win by the means of mastering their true skills.

As far as skills are concerned, you would start with a combination of fighter and thief stats as well as equipment. Strong on the fighter side, but weak on the thief side. I could easily see this class added to any of the previous QFG games and working great.

Assassin might work better then bounty hunter, I don't know I just like the sound of the latter.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:40 pm 
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They could have the specialisations from the QfG2 manual :p

Fighter - Warlord, Hero, Paladin, Combat Instructor, Security Guard, Babysitter
Magic User - Royal Magician, Wizard, Archmage, Court Jester, Computer Programmer, Corporate Manager
Thief - Playboy, Chief Thief, Godfather, Tax Accountant, Politician, CEO

I think I'd be a playboy computer programmer. Those two fit so well together.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:40 pm 
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I think a good and interesting class to play would be a "Musician." And he would have different musical skills like "flute charming" or "voilen energy burst".


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:36 am 
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Maybe a Ranger would be nice. With some stealth, some attack power and some magic. Extra ability could be tracking. Or a Ranger subclass: a Beastmaster. Like the Ranger, but with a little charm over some animals, who could turn into allies, instead of the tracking ability.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:00 am 
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All good ideas, but the only two that aren't overly complicated are "slut" and "musician."

I think the OP's idea is to have a simple new class, adding no or very few new features... mainly just a different slant on puzzle-solving.  Slut and musician would both work in a similar fashion, and I think that this fashion is the logical addition: charm.

The thief works in the shadows, the mage uses his wit, the fighter crushes all in his path - one thing that's left is using charm to work through situations.  I imagine that the charm-based class would need to be very athletic, possibly both to attract and get his way, as well as being able to run from mindless enemies, where their charm will do no good.  The charm-class might want to pick up magic, or possibly have their own unique skillset, similar to paladin magic.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:34 pm 
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I... think he was kidding about the slut...
Oh wait this is BT we're talking about, nevermind.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:12 am 
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Hmmm... that makes you wonder what we'll be seeing in QFI.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:31 am 
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Ranger, Bard, Cleric, Druid... I'm just thinking of classes that are in D&D but never came up in QFG.  If I remember right Lori Cole wanted to have each of the classes as different races, but it was too much to work with; and that she also wanted to have a Ranger-hybrid of some sort in QfG but that it never happened (unless the multi-player update was to ever be done).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:18 pm 
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I wanted to reply to this topic when it was first created, but didn't have the time then.

The 3 main classes in QFG don't just cover a specific job, they also cover a specific way of thinking, a specific mentality, which is why each solves puzzles differently. (a mage with a fighter's mentality wouldn't cast open on a door, but knock it down with force bolts) As adeyke said, the puzzle solving aspect really limits the amount of classes you can add, many typical D&D classes wouldn't solve puzzles in a very different way than the existing classes already do. There are, in essence, only 3 mentalities...direct (with force and physical strength), indirect (with spells or objects in adventure style) and workaround. (working around the actual puzzle to get where and what you want) Most new classes would still make use of one of these 3 basic mentalities.

It WOULD be possible to add other classes whose mentality would be similar to the existing classes, but whose special skills would still make replaying the game in their role interesting.

Ideas and examples are:


- Enchanter: A wizard who cannot cast spells directly, but who enchants objects in his inventory. His primary ability is to put a charge on objects with the properties of heat, cold, electricity and force, turning things like rocks into semi-flame darts/force bolts etc. In addition, he can temporarily duplicate certain basic objects or conjure certain basic objects from thin air. (assuming the original object had been in his posession at least once in the past) He can also temporarily transform objects' forms and manipulate certain objects' forms to mature quickly. Conjured or duplicated objects can be dematerialised again after being used to gain some of the mana back that was used to conjure up the object in question instead of waiting until they'd vanish automatically. His mentality would be the indirect mentality of a wizard and he'd have similar skills with the additional skill of throwing. Spells would be found or learned from other enchanters. Each spell would have a skill value determining the strength/length of the enchantment upon the object. If the key to a locked door was in clear sight, but guarded, he'd take the key and secretly duplicate it, then put the original back. If the door was locked, but not guarded, he could put a charge on an object like a large nail and then put it in the lock, destroying said lock.

- Alchemist: Can create potions and concoctions from basic items to help out in adventures. Recipes are bought from local healers and must be reacquired when visiting another land, since each country has a different ecosystem with different flora and fauna. Each recipe would have a skill that determines how effective the recipe's result is. In addition to restorative potions and antidotes, other concoctions include molotov cocktails, acid, cooling liquid, sleeping powder, poison, intoxicating or mind-altering substances and more. His skillset would be similar to the wizard, as would his mentality. He'd fight with a dagger or darts coated in his concoctions (such as poison) or with the occasional molotov cocktail. If a door would be guarded, he'd drug the guard with a sleep-inducing drink or dart and if the door had a combination lock, he'd spike the guard's drink and talk the combination out of him while he's delirious. If the door would be locked, but unguarded, he'd melt the door's lock with acid.

- Shapeshifter (Druid): This would naturally be a member of the leopardmen tribe. Has the skillset of a wizard, sans magic, (in other words, not much) but is able to transform into human/animal hybrids. Starts out with only the leopard form, but can learn more forms over his/her adventures. Each form can only be taken on once a day, but can be reverted from at will. The basic stats of this class are very low, but each form his its own stats set that is generally high in their areas of expertise. The leopardman form has the added climbing ability and a tremendous agility plus good stealth. A rhino form would have great strength and vitality/armor, but little agility. A crocman form would have good vitality and swimming ability. Gi-ant form can produce acid and has good strength. Major inconveniency would be the once-a-day limit of each form, requiring careful planning of daily activities as skill-based puzzles are difficult to solve in human form. It's impossible to enter residental areas while transformed and no form can actually speak. Locked doors would naturally be bashed in with the rhino form and walls would be scaled as a leopardman. This class has a bit of the wizard mentality as far as transformation planning is concerned, but has the fighter or thief mentality when solving puzzles, depending on the form taken. Battle is naturally fought in animal form since the human form is frail.

- Performer: This would probably be a gnome, like Yorick, Keapon or Punny. A performer is a stage artist who can sing songs, climb, walk tightropes and perform stage magician's tricks. He has a skillset much like the thief and the same mentality when solving puzzles, preferring to work around problems. His extremely quick fingers make him an excellent pickpocket and he uses this practice to get money in addition to his earnings as a stage artist. He has some basic mesmerizing skill (although not very powerful) and can use his stage magician's tools to fake magic tricks such as disappearing in a cloud of smoke. Unlike the thief, he's not interested in burglary or thief guilds, he prefers conning his victims instead. He cheats at nearly every game he plays and sees cheating as a serious skill. (you only pull that extra ace from your sleeve if you believe none of the other players has the same card, after all) In battle, he's much like the thief, preferring to toss the daggers from his dagger throwing act at enemies before closing in. Since he's not interested in burglary, he can't pick locks. He opens locked doors by pickpocketting the keys from guards or using his stage tricks to distract them.

- Scientist: A wizard of the non-magical variety. Instead of spells, he works with various gadgets that he has built himself. His skillset and mentality are similar to the wizard (though he'd never admit it), sans the magic skill. He has no mana points, instead, each gadget has a set amount of uses each day so using one gadget doesn't limit the application of another gadget. The amount of times each gadget can be used depends on his science skill, he increases this by tinkering with his own devices. His skill with each device determines the effectiveness of its use. He has some limited alchemy skill, but only enough to help him with his inventions. Many of his gadgets mimic known magical spells and his array of devices includes a stungun-like device to mimic dazzle, a dart gun or blunderbus for combat, a device that shoots a grappling-hook, a magnetic device, spring-loaded boots, a net-slinging device and more. Gains more benefits from eating pizza than any other class. Wants to show the world science can perfectly rival magic in terms of potential.

Anyway, even all these suggested classes still include the basic fighter, mage or thief mentality as far as puzzles are concerned, so I think the Coles really covered all ground as far as the adventure aspect of the games is concerned.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:02 am 
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Pretty much, even D&D grouped the classes into certain areas: Warrior classes- Fighter, Ranger, Paladin... Rogue Classes- Thieves, Bards...

Other classes could be done in another QFG-themed or world game, in fact, I would expect it.  However, I also couldn't see these classes being anything except specialization classes to whatever group it's coming from.  I think another class could branch off the wizard (specialization wizards, i.e. envoker, illusionist, conjurer...) or another class from the thief (bounty hunter, swashbuckler...)

I guess what I'm basically saying is that if there were any additional games (or another series with roots in the old ones) that there would definitely be new classes, but as far as expecting anything dramatically different from the main three or four, I wouldn't count on it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:50 pm 
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Those character types in qfg would be awesome. And Erpy suggested the Alchemist, which if you've ever played Legend of Kyrandia II; Hand of Fate, you character Zanthia, is a Alchemist. Lost track how many puzzles are trying to make potions...  I'm not even sure if they sell that game anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Since the Paladin is basically a specialized fighter class that is rewarded to the player on importation of a character (or completion of the Paladin points quests in QFG2), I think the most logical application of new character classes into future QFG games would be to have specialized classes that would be earnable for the Wizard and Thief types.  For example, the Thief could undergo special training to become an Assassin or a Ninja, which might be interesting as a sort of dark-version of the Paladin class.  Similarly, a Wizard might be able to undergo a special set of quests to become a Shape-shifter, or some other specialized type of Wizard.  This would work best if there were multiple new QFG games (if only!) since you could earn the new class in one game and then use it from the outset of another, much like the Paladin in QFG2.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:23 am 
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techie775 wrote:
Those character types in qfg would be awesome. And Erpy suggested the Alchemist, which if you've ever played Legend of Kyrandia II; Hand of Fate, you character Zanthia, is a Alchemist. Lost track how many puzzles are trying to make potions...  I'm not even sure if they sell that game anymore.


If anyone played Return to Krondor, alchemy was one of the skills players could have and it did in some respect make the game more interesting, although somewhat frustrating at first.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:27 am 
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Lambonius wrote:
Since the Paladin is basically a specialized fighter class that is rewarded to the player on importation of a character (or completion of the Paladin points quests in QFG2), I think the most logical application of new character classes into future QFG games would be to have specialized classes that would be earnable for the Wizard and Thief types.  For example, the Thief could undergo special training to become an Assassin or a Ninja, which might be interesting as a sort of dark-version of the Paladin class.  Similarly, a Wizard might be able to undergo a special set of quests to become a Shape-shifter, or some other specialized type of Wizard.  This would work best if there were multiple new QFG games (if only!) since you could earn the new class in one game and then use it from the outset of another, much like the Paladin in QFG2.


Exactly.  One thing I particularly liked about the Paladin class in QfG was that it had to be earned (either in QG2 or QG3,) so it added another aspect to the game that increased its replay value.  There's a great deal of potential for the other classes, with regards to how they could or would achieve a specialized class if selecting it initially were not an option.  The other choice would be to have character selection much like D&D (take the popular Baldurs Gate games for example), were one simply choses the specialized class and accepts its limitations.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:54 am 
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Alot of these things are intresting ideas but don't quite fit, for one making a "dark" version of the paladin (Dark knight assasin etc) does not work because quest for glory is to become a hero, even if its to become a hero for the glory and the loot you get along the way(Thief). So really the dark sides out in a quest for glory setting (Tho a game like quest for glory gameplay wise could make two very diffrent games by having a light and dark class).

Basicly the ones that most fit as being new ways of thinking into this game is either the ranger.
The ranger would take the combat aproach but would menuver into a safe spot to pick him off before the enemy can get to him. to solve puzzles he would use his outdoorsmen skills and maybe trapped animal companions, he would also be able to sleep outside etc but would suffer ALOT in direct combat. I know it could use a bit of tweaking to bring him in line with the other characters pro/con wise but thats the basics.

Another intresting idea would be making reward classes for every class. If anyone ever starts making games like quest for glory(AGDI I'm looking at you here, the world needs more adventure rpg hybrids!).


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