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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:26 pm 
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Sinister wrote:
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In an ideal world I would like all the KQ games with a remake possibility (KQ3-KQ4-MOE) to be done by AGDI.


LOL!.. as a member of IA, that hurts my tiny evil little heart. :lol

Honestly though, we learned a lot from making Kq3, and it had its number of flaws, but we'll get much better with age. Who knows we might even surprise you..

As for AGDI making remaking KQ3, it would obviously contain some plot tie ins with Kq2+, but the original Kq3 was the first "plot driven" game in the franchise's history so I doubt AGDI would want to deviate from the story too much.

All in all, I would welcome a KQ3 remake from AGDI, as you know.. when you make games you get little joy of actually playing them, because of all the testing and zero surprises.. So it would be fun to play a KQ3 that "varied" a bit..

May I suggest rather then just releasing kq3 and being done with it upgrade it from time to time if you think there is room for improvement? Thats the tagline of a truely good developer, willing to keep improving even after the orignal release.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:51 pm 
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Ofcourse Piotyr, but right now IA is not looking to release a revamped version of KQ3.  Version 2 was a great improvement over Version 1.

It is on the platter to go back fix things we are not completly happy with, but at this time we can not say when that will happen.

EDIT:

Before I get quoted on what I said before and get this question; "If there were things we werent completly happy with why did we release the game?"

When we released Version 1 of the game, we we're happy with what we had done, ofcourse.. our lack of experience in the testing department led to version 1 being "buggy". During the process of fixing that and the development of Version 2, we did some cosmetic changes, and fixed a few things mentioned by the public eye as well as extensive and serious testing of the game by a great group of BETA testers who went at it 24/7 to rid the game of bugs.

When we released Version 2, we were very happy with it (and the voice pack).

Now, several months later and well into the production of other projects and having grown in many aspects, we can now say..  "we can do better" so we can go back to Kq3 a fix what we "now" are not happy with.. yet that takes second stage to our current priorities.

I hope that clears that up.


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 Post subject: IA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:10 am 
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Sinister wrote:
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In an ideal world I would like all the KQ games with a remake possibility (KQ3-KQ4-MOE) to be done by AGDI.


LOL!.. as a member of IA, that hurts my tiny evil little heart. :lol

Honestly though, we learned a lot from making Kq3, and it had its number of flaws, but we'll get much better with age. Who knows we might even surprise you..


This was the first game fo IA and it a really good game with a lot of features a lot of work put into it.

I assume with you're comment that the next game of IA team will be a masterpiece ?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:39 am 
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Sinister wrote:
Ofcourse Piotyr, but right now IA is not looking to release a revamped version of KQ3.  Version 2 was a great improvement over Version 1.

It is on the platter to go back fix things we are not completly happy with, but at this time we can not say when that will happen.

EDIT:

Before I get quoted on what I said before and get this question; "If there were things we werent completly happy with why did we release the game?"

When we released Version 1 of the game, we we're happy with what we had done, ofcourse.. our lack of experience in the testing department led to version 1 being "buggy". During the process of fixing that and the development of Version 2, we did some cosmetic changes, and fixed a few things mentioned by the public eye as well as extensive and serious testing of the game by a great group of BETA testers who went at it 24/7 to rid the game of bugs.

When we released Version 2, we were very happy with it (and the voice pack).

Now, several months later and well into the production of other projects and having grown in many aspects, we can now say..  "we can do better" so we can go back to Kq3 a fix what we "now" are not happy with.. yet that takes second stage to our current priorities.

I hope that clears that up.


Just what I was getting at! No matter how much you put into the orignal production there will always be things you could do better because you missed something or learn something new that you could of used. It takes the publics eye as well as your grown self to understand this.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:08 am 
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Quote:
I assume with you're comment that the next game of IA team will be a masterpiece ?


Haha :lol  .. who knows.. my lawyer told me not to promise anything. :lol

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Just what I was getting at! No matter how much you put into the orignal production there will always be things you could do better because you missed something or learn something new that you could of used. It takes the publics eye as well as your grown self to understand this.


Indeed.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:02 am 
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Well, even KQ1VGA is bland when it's compared to KQ2VGA+. And I bet both of these and a lot of Sierra games will look bland when QFG2VGA will be released.

Personally, my few problems with KQ3VGA were related to the original game rather than the remake itself. There were too much elements from the original games that were simply awful and no amount of VGA sugar coating could make any better. While the magical formula and the timer related elements were solved with the remake, the bad designing you can notice begining at the pirate ship and this overall impression you had no idea what to do in the ship, and the ending where all there is to do is walk around a cliff/bridge and try to not fall down the cliff/pit, these were simply bad enough in the original to be solved in a 1:1 remake.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:31 am 
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I was never a big fan of KQ3 to begin with, in it's EGA form, it was probably the only King's Quest game I stopped playing after I beat it.  Walking on the cliffs usually involved me saving and restoring half a dozen times and the spells were a pain in the rear. I did like how the remake took that bit out and I just need to have the components.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:08 am 
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Hmmm... so... if AGDI decides to make it someday, they should completely revise the path to daventry??  I'm actually not sure what they could do differently on the ship...

Have Alex steer the ship??  :lol


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:47 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:
Hmmm... so... if AGDI decides to make it someday, they should completely revise the path to daventry??  I'm actually not sure what they could do differently on the ship...

Have Alex steer the ship??  :lol


Adding story and puzzles on the path to Daventry would be greatly welcomed. It's not like that snowy mountain was any interesting. It's not like those cliff mazes were important story speaking and had any positive impact on the game.

As for the ship, to solve the "wait, wait, wait, wait" part you simply have to repeat how the begining of the game was, with pirates to replace that evil sorcerer (who's name's correct spelling escape me right now): obeying orders, collecting ingredients, hiding them, plotting your escape before the journey is over and before you get thrown to the shark. You replace that abstract "jump out of the ship" puzzle with a storm spell that wreck the ship on Daventry.

That would IMO fit the game's mood more than the pirate ship did in the original KQ3. Just as you thought you were free, you are slaved again by the pirates. Or maybe it's just me.


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 Post subject: KQ3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 pm 
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I think that Sierra KQ3's team were pretty proud of the count down feature. They used it a lot...But it really messed with the game structure.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Yes, Sierra' real time feature was something new they started playing with. The amount of time spent doing nothing was intended to make the journey actually feel long.. though like most people said.. it didnt work out that way.

If we talked about a Remake Kq3+ I'd problably say, I would flesh out the pirate ship with a series of chores you would have to do for the pirate captain, and somehow trick the pirates into going to Daventry (lets say their original course was somewhere else, and during your chores, you would.. <with the help of charts and other things>... alter the direction of the ship).

The Daventry area could be fleshed out, with more puzzle's..  I'd also expand on Manannan's Role as ruler of Llewdor, and interact with more people and the town of Llewdor so you could pick up on the actuall story of the land.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Piotyr wrote:
Just what I was getting at! No matter how much you put into the orignal production there will always be things you could do better because you missed something or learn something new that you could of used. It takes the publics eye as well as your grown self to understand this.


So when is it actually finished then? At some point in time a decision has to be made to say, "okay, thats enough, let's do something else now." You're correct in saying that there's always something else that can be done, but it comes down to effort vs reward, and the reward for a lot of the little stuff isn't worth the effort, when that time could be better spent on doing something else.

And more importantly, after spending the amounts of time working on KQ3 that we did, we really just don't want to look at it anymore.

I'm sure if you asked AGD2 he'd say the same thing, I doubt he's got a lot of motivation to fix minor things in KQ1.

As for the pirate ship onwards, I also agree that this part of the game isn't very well designed. The pirate ship is stupid and the gameplay of that section just feels awkward. And Daventry is just too empty with nothing major to do.

IA's plans for a plus version of KQ3 had a few ideas that would've changed the entire ending of the game. But we decided after only very basic discussions that we wanted to stay faithful to the original as much as possible.

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 Post subject: KQ3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:00 pm 
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A game can never be done...
There always more bugs to patch, finer art to incorporate, more level to design, more feature to add...

You have to draw a line or people will keep asking you "when is it done?" until the end of time.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:19 am 
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A wise man once said, "A (poem/story/movie/game/play) is never completed, it is only abandoned." This is true sometimes. However, if it's never abandoned, you also get nothing new and there's a point where you stop growing and it stops being satisfying. Sometimes, you just have to let your baby go and hope you did your best with it. If you spend too much time on it, you kill it. Nobody wants that to happen.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:27 am 
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Wow!   :eek  That's deep!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:21 pm 
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Kurdt wrote:
A wise man once said, "A (poem/story/movie/game/play) is never completed, it is only abandoned." This is true sometimes. However, if it's never abandoned, you also get nothing new and there's a point where you stop growing and it stops being satisfying. Sometimes, you just have to let your baby go and hope you did your best with it. If you spend too much time on it, you kill it. Nobody wants that to happen.


I thought it was: "Feature films [video games] aren't released, they escape!"  At least that's what they did with the latest Star Wars films.  They set the release date at the beginning and whatever cut they had in their hands at that point made it to the screen.

I don't know if the same premise could be applied to non-profit indie games, but it would prevent the 2 years worth of "When's it gonna be done?!?"

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:02 pm 
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But in its place will come worse problems. There's another saying that says "delay is only temporary, but mediocrity is forever".

A minute in the spotlight, 15 minutes of fame and a few good reactions are the only rewards non-profit gamemakers get. That and the good feeling they finished something they started. Releasing something prematurely that doesn't just fail to live up to the fans' expectations but also to the developers' expectations can only be deemed an all-out failure.

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 Post subject: Game completion
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:39 pm 
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Of course... no body want a low quality game finished "just in time for Christmas"... when actually it would have required 2 more years.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:55 pm 
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ciborium wrote:
I thought it was: "Feature films [video games] aren't released, they escape!"  At least that's what they did with the latest Star Wars films.  They set the release date at the beginning and whatever cut they had in their hands at that point made it to the screen.


Which is exactly why the latest Star Wars films were so incredibly terrible (well, that and the terrible scripts, acting, and effects.)  I'll kindly wait until the game is 100% done.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:20 am 
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Come again about the terrible effects. Did I read that right? Because there are a lot of things you can say about any Star Wars film, but not that the effects were terrible.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:03 am 
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I think the only StarWars movie that had effects that bugged me.. was episode 1. The whole battle sequence between the gungans and the trade federation was about as realistic as the power rangers "Zords".

I found that while using CGI for certain things is cool... those completly generated scenes.. are extremly boring. (Excluding from all of this the terrible comic relief that Jar Jar was doing).

The effects werent terrible just not great.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:42 am 
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The only completely CGI battles that bugged me were some moments in the burly brawl and the Smith and Neo showdown in the Matrix Roloaded and Revolutions. Looked like rubber. Or plastic or something. They really can't get CGI to look totally real yet. I wonder what it is....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:13 pm 
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Actually, I thought the CGI in Pirates of the Carribean 2 was amazing.  Davy Jones was a real achievement.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:54 pm 
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I think 2002 was the year.  That's when Episode II and Two Towers were released.  In both, I think they got CGI right.  Yoda was done well but Gollum was incredible.

I agree about the Matrix fight looking rubbery.  Somehow they got the motion capture aspect wrong on it.  Or maybe they just wanted to exaggerate it and took it too far.  Funny enough, it was released a year after Episode II.


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