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 Post subject: What sucks about QFG series.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:42 pm 
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Hi. I don't usually post here much and it was at least a year since my last visit. I re-read some posts and realised that this place is quite heavy with QFG-fans and the debate leans towards "what makes QFG great". I remember once stating my dismay about QFG5 and that produced some real hot air.

Thing is, we are a bit older now and even if QFG is firmly rooted in our childhood, we should be able to offer critique and look at it objectively. So let's open a can of worms and nag at the aspects we dislike the most about QFG.

Okay I go first:

In my opinion, the games are uneven. Sure, it makes sense that the first isn't as fleshed out as the second one aso. but sometimes there's a veritable shark jump in places there shouldn't be. What concerns me most is characters and plot.

QFG1
I think the first game is pretty much optimal for the time it came. Gameplay, fighting, stats, puzzles and story have about even space. Sure, the characters of the game aren't that fleshed out and there isn't much sense of urgency in the story, as in the sequels. Generally, it's enough though. We have the hunt for the mandrake root and Bruno's plot to keep things from standing still. The encounter with the Baron after the rescue of Barnard is also played out nicely. Imagine how unsatisfying it had been without it. All in all, the first game is even and solid. You have to take in acount that it was a rather experimental project to begin with.

QFG2
Then we have Quest for glory 2 which promises more of everything. More small events, a much larger world and a clear timeline. The second game is an improvement since there's alot of things going on. Still, I can't shake the feeling that it promises too much. It tends to drag a bit at times due to the timeline. If you solve things early, you are left with pretty much nothing to do other than killing monsters and talking to people. At one point it goes in the other direction. After days of doing nothing in the game you must, kill the earth elemental, talk to Aziza, save julanar, make a dispel potion and find the caged traitor in the desert(All in one day!). I managed to do this after reading spoilers but there was no chance in hell for me to get this right without detailed instructions.

Some of the choices are odd in storyline. The characters are a bit like shopkeepers, bland. You come back to them and just occasionally they have something different to say. In spite of all going on, they are very "at the side" in the game.
I wonder why they included that complicated animation about Shema dancing when they instead could've made more cut-scenes and minor events instead. The end game in Raseir is like a different game in that aspect. Things are happening all the time and I believe it couldn't hurt if the prior part had more of that instead.

There are, in my opinion, many things in QFG2 that are underused and I think it will become apparent in the coming enhancement(since it faithfully will follow the original).

QFG3
This is what I really wanted to talk about because I really think this is one of the real stinkers in the series, and I never could bring myself to like it. The game in itself is very linear and rushed. Especially when it comes to side-quests related to class. The new paladin branch is most unsatisfying in this game and also the thief(my favorite). There really isn't much to do.

The story itself I find very questionable and I hate the liontaurs, period. Sure, it is hinted that everyone aren't happy with the apartheid and Rakeesh is a fairly likable character but there's no satisfying conclusion to the conflict between the liontaurs and the human underclass. Even if the ruler is an asshole and that the city is divided according to race, the plot refuses to resolve that. Instead we get a cop-out involving demons when it should lead back to Tarna's rulers and decadent overclass. Why couldn't the ruler have been the evil mastermind, or better yet, the oblivious type of evil as a result from pride and ignorance?
I guess it's apologetic to apartheid just because LIONS! I however, can't bring myself to like 'em (besides, they have 6 limbs like insects; creepy)

Another aspect of this is that the situation of the Simbani tribe seems too idyllic and that makes you wonder why the shapeshift tribe is so up in knots. It doesn't either relate to the Tarna situation, and all in all it makes a poor job reflecting the inequalities of african nations. I wouldn't mind about all this if the game creators hadn't had the pretension of doing so.

They decided to let the plot stand at the cost of gameplay so it makes most logical sense to review the plot.

Other flaws: Battle system sucks, period. The game feels claustrophobic due to the lack of areas. The humor is terrible and the end game is very abrupt compared to the previous two games.  

Ok. This is getting to long. Maybe I'll do QFG4 and QFG5 later, or you can accept the short version:

QFG4: Outstanding except for the bugs and the battle system.

QFG5: A dissapointment but nowhere near QFG3. Some things are very fresh and real improvements, but not much.


Ok. This will generate flames but that's expected when there's a fandom involved. I hope someone else wants to stand forth and talk about their gripes.

Either way, I hope it'll be interesting.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:09 pm 
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I feel for this topic and thread the same I do about war. Allow me to elaborate or in some sense reiterate incase you walked in late and can't miss your fate... but maybe you were just on a date so if that's the case than don't be irate and let these words relflect a trait and not what you ate.
(What I mean to say here is my opinion on war is the same as my opinion of this topic so lets get them both at once.)

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War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
 
War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
 
War! huh good God
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?


QFGF for President

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4/5


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:20 pm 
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Hehe. That's some grade A QFG pun-making there

I just had fun ranting and I hope it's not inflamatory. It would still be hard to flat-out state that a game is junk since it's such a subjective opinion. Much why we like certain games often depends on what impressional age we were subjected to them.

That just might be my problem with QFG3. I played QFG2 when I was 12 and became fired up like crazy. The fact that I had AMIGA made it impossible for me to play the third until several years later. At that time I still remembered the high which the second installment went out on. Is there anything more epic than saving the world, topple a totalitarian regime and be crowned prince?

Well anyway... It's not an insult to anyone who liked the game, but rather a personal rant. Also, some of the fun about giving a negative review is to be a tad sarcastic and condemning.


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 Post subject: Re: What sucks about QFG series.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:18 am 
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Shantzy wrote:
The story itself I find very questionable and I hate the liontaurs, period. Sure, it is hinted that everyone aren't happy with the apartheid and Rakeesh is a fairly likable character but there's no satisfying conclusion to the conflict between the liontaurs and the human underclass. Even if the ruler is an asshole and that the city is divided according to race, the plot refuses to resolve that. Instead we get a cop-out involving demons when it should lead back to Tarna's rulers and decadent overclass. Why couldn't the ruler have been the evil mastermind, or better yet, the oblivious type of evil as a result from pride and ignorance?
I guess it's apologetic to apartheid just because LIONS! I however, can't bring myself to like 'em (besides, they have 6 limbs like insects; creepy)

Another aspect of this is that the situation of the Simbani tribe seems too idyllic and that makes you wonder why the shapeshift tribe is so up in knots. It doesn't either relate to the Tarna situation, and all in all it makes a poor job reflecting the inequalities of african nations. I wouldn't mind about all this if the game creators hadn't had the pretension of doing so.


I'm sorry, but I find this part extremely funny. This wasn't what the game was about, thankfully.  It's stupid to me that people tend to look at Africa to have this problem, just because the differences is obvious, the skin colour etc. But, just like every-one of the other games and every country in the world, the same 'apartheid' exist ie. with upper, middle and lower classes.  If you don't see it in your home-town, you are blind.

Just like in Africa, apartheid wasn't entirely forced in this game, the Simbani had no interest to mingle with Tarna as was the case with the leopardmen.  Same as in Africa, this preference of all the races to live apart to preserve their cultures became the norm through the generations, and eventually the law (if you grow up with something, it's not really that easy to realize that it's wrong).  Also, the humans had no interest to mingle with the Liontaurs within Tarna.

All-in-all, you missed the point of the game entirely. It was about working together, not to change cultures.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:24 am 
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Your ratings are very much justified.

As I always say, dont blame the Coles.
They never wanted all of this.


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 Post subject: Re: What sucks about QFG series.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:20 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:
I'm sorry, but I find this part extremely funny. This wasn't what the game was about, thankfully.  It's stupid to me that people tend to look at Africa to have this problem, just because the differences is obvious, the skin colour etc. But, just like every-one of the other games and every country in the world, the same 'apartheid' exist ie. with upper, middle and lower classes.  If you don't see it in your home-town, you are blind.


Good point, but I had a feeling they had Johannesburg in mind particularly. There's the liontaur side of town, and there's the human side of town as stated boundries. I mean, that's beyond segregation really because the point was not that liontaurs are better established and richer.

I was very political when I was 16 and it made me angry that event with the thief. It's not the fact that he broke the law and is sentenced to be honorless. It's the fact that the court is liontaur and people in Tarna respected the liontaur ruling and also chastisized him. What other indication is there than "liontaur/white man knows best"?

Gronagor wrote:
Just like in Africa, apartheid wasn't entirely forced in this game, the Simbani had no interest to mingle with Tarna as was the case with the leopardmen.  Same as in Africa, this preference of all the races to live apart to preserve their cultures became the norm through the generations, and eventually the law (if you grow up with something, it's not really that easy to realize that it's wrong).  Also, the humans had no interest to mingle with the Liontaurs within Tarna.


That's a correct assumption I wager and I jump to a conclusion, forgetting that this is fantasy(which in this context means "simplified reality"). In reality, societies living in such proximity wouldn't be shielded off. Rural areas are heavily affected by the urban nodes of a region. Political, commercial and cultural life diffuse, for good or bad. I guess Tarna is a city-state rather than a capital, but still.

Gronagor wrote:
All-in-all, you missed the point of the game entirely. It was about working together, not to change cultures.


In that case, I think they shouldn't have played the "forced segregation" ball at all. It's an inflamatory subject and you expect it to be resolved in the end, which it wasn't.


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 Post subject: African Ramblings
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:56 pm 
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I have to agree with Gronagor on his point, If you're going to read Apartheid into this you're kind of missing the point of the game. Also I grew up in Germiston near Johannesburg, trust me when I say that there is no resemblance, beyond a very general one and at that point hardly unique to Jo'burg or even Africa for that matter.

I do agree with you that if they introduced the issue of forced segrigation then they should have allowed the hero to be a hero, and save the People from their unjust conditions. I think that they did attemp a fix-all with the casting out of the demons, but this was an over simplified solution and agree with you on that point too.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:39 am 
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Shantzy, you had an AMIGA when you were 12! You must have been
rich!   :eek


Does anyone remember the IBM 8086 with the big, red, jolly,
candylike, power switch? (literally)

I remember I had KQ5 EGA running on that beast.
Top of the line game for the time, but its all that beast could do.
I think its up in my dad's attic somewhere.
The processor actually made beeps and boops, especially when the hard
drive was fried. I cant believe it supported the original Soundblaster.
Had that until we got our first Compaq, back in 94 or something.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:41 pm 
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wow, I just thought the some of the linotaurs were way too proud of themselves and thought their shit didn't stink. No way did I intrpret that as a racist thing. And at the end of the game, I wasn't expecting the "you've fixed all our problems, now we'll respect Humans." I just thought maybe some of the linotaurs would figure out on their own that humans can be better than they thought and would start respecting them .  Changes like that don't happen overnight.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Very interesting ideas, though I don't really agree with the apartheid tie-in on 3. You are right though, 3 was definitely the low-point of the series. As for Liontaurs, I love these guys! We need a Liontaur fangame!
 :hat


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:45 pm 
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What sucks about "Quest For Glory"?

The name.  I always liked "Hero's Quest" better.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:36 am 
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I was never really disappointed with any of the games, except the bugs in QG4, which in the end felt like another puzzle... how do I work around this bug...?  I know a lot of people didn't really care for QG3, but I liked it, it tried a lot of new things, especially the graphics, layout, world-map, and more colorfully animated spells.  Having worked my way through these games in order, I thought Lori Cole made the right choice by squeezing another game in and developing and maturing the hero a little more.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:32 am 
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I also thought quite a few things were very enjoyable in QFG3. I've replayed the game many times

They are:

The whole storyline with the fighter and the wizard. Heck even if you aren't a paladin you still get to do the initiation and the battle with the demon wizard is still a challenge. You really got to build their characters with new scenarios.It seemed like only thief barely had anything to do with his skills (besides the leapordman hut).

The Bargaining System. I thought this rocked compared to qfg2 where you just said "bargain for waterskin" and either got a yes or no answer. You could ask a quantity and set the price you want. Plus you get a bunch of different comments describing why the bargain fails. I hope qfg2vga is set up like this.

I can't see just jumping from QFG2 to QFG4. It'd seem rushed. "Oh I just killed Ad Avis, and a few days later he's transporting me to mordavia."

I have v1.1 and the only real bug i've had is sometimes you will just keep running when running away from a monster. Nothing like pain in the butt ERROR 52 in qfg4 (at least before the fix came out).

I loved some(not all) of the jokes and comments in this game as well. Some of them seemed to really get you into the story (Ex: Stuff about uhara's sister watching simba for a day cause she's going to be a mother)  You have to look real hard to find them all.

My biggest gripe with the storyline is that Rakeesh makes a pledge for peace and you barely see him do ANYTHING besides hang out with kreesha. The Hero has to do all the work, which would be fine but don't say your going to do something and then sit on your butt and expect it to get done. I wouldn't rate it as my favorite the series and yes the theif does get screwed, but I don't know about worst in the series. And I know I have played worst RPGs than QFG3


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:27 am 
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Well there still is a variety of things the thief can do that no one else can do: steal the drum and rob the laibon, steal the spear and rob the leopardman chief; he's the only character that needs the fruit and meat for puzzle points; his approach to getting the venomous fruit is different, his solutions to the end of the game are different, he can train with the rope maker, he can steal money, etc.

What was different about the thief this time around was that each time he was using his skills there was a reason aside from stealing goods and money. No guild license, no guild, only two other thieves in the game...

There still was a good amount of humor too: the waffle walker, the rhino, the legionaries, the random signs (like Trial by Fire), the odd reference to Oliver Brelsford, all the death messages, the feud between the amulet seller and the meat seller, Sanford and Son being the junk sellers, etc.

It's not my favorite but I still think it's a good game.  It's like the Star Trek III of Quest for Glory, nothing extraordinary, but it had to happen to transition between two and three.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:55 am 
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Quote:
The Bargaining System. I thought this rocked compared to qfg2 where you just said "bargain for waterskin" and either got a yes or no answer. You could ask a quantity and set the price you want. Plus you get a bunch of different comments describing why the bargain fails. I hope qfg2vga is set up like this.


QFG2VGA does indeed have a bargaining system similar to QFG3's.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:50 pm 
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QFG 1 - You could only rest when you were partially exhausted; thus you could not fastforward to accomplish the game's nocturnal tasks.  Just keep on chucking rocks there, Hero, so you can take a power nap.

QFG 2 - I agree with OP about the time issues.  The worst part was waiting for night to fall in Raseir.  

QFG 3 - Strangely enough I don't have much complaint here.  I'd say the majority of QFG players like this game the least.  I do think that the game was too easy.  Very linear, and you always knew pretty much what had to be done.  

QFG 4 - Bugs, obviously, but not much else.  IMO the combat system was rather weak.  

All of the games, belonging to the adventure genre, were exceptionally short by today's standards.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:03 pm 
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Quote:
QFG 1 - You could only rest when you were partially exhausted; thus you could not fastforward to accomplish the game's nocturnal tasks.  Just keep on chucking rocks there, Hero, so you can take a power nap.


Actually, you can also talk to Crusher multiple times and get tossed out of the tavern. Time will make a big leap every time this happens.

Quote:
QFG 4 - Bugs, obviously, but not much else.  IMO the combat system was rather weak.


I actually loved the combat system. It wasn't perfect, stats could have played a more central role in it, but it still had many good qualities IMHO.

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 Post subject: QfG4 Battle system
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:54 pm 
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As I recall, Corey Cole said QfG4 had his favorite combat system in the series.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:21 am 
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So many South Africans.   I can't believe I've followed this project for so many years and I've never noticed.   :lol


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:33 am 
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Erpy wrote:
QFG2VGA does indeed have a bargaining system similar to QFG3's.


Cool, I hadn't even thought about that.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:39 am 
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queynte wrote:
QFG 2 - I agree with OP about the time issues.  The worst part was waiting for night to fall in Raseir.  

QFG 4 - Bugs, obviously, but not much else.  IMO the combat system was rather weak.  


I actually didn't have a problem with the time issues in QFG 2; the game included an option to accelerate time, whenever I had to wait a few minutes, I just got up and made a sandwich or something.  When I first played the game I was searching the desert outside and what limited streets in Raiser I could travel, nonetheless, I was disappointed there wasn't anything there, unless I was a thief.

I thought the combat system in QG4 was great and a vast improvement over others.  Unlike QG3, my imported character actually stood a chance of being killed by a few of the creatures.  There was actually a different need for dodging and parry, there was room to move, the creatures were well designed, advanced spell casting, dagger throwing, acrobatic combat, etc.  It was interesting, I actually felt the combat system for QG5 was the biggest disappointment, too much wear on my mouse for point and click.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Ok, here we go with opinions...

QFG3: The first QFG that I ever played (because I got it in Spanish). To me, it was excellent!! Each character had a story, culture, etc. I do have to agree that the battle system was a little week. But I still remember creating my first staff!!
(And I finally understood the: dead ant, dead ant, dead ant, dead ant joke!!)

QFG1 VGA: The second QFG that I played. It was in English and it was a pain for me!! Not because I lost all my spells from QFG3, but also because I had to play the game with a dictonary next to me. Still, the point and click save me of most problems. I was annoyed by the fact that you could die so easy... but of course I learn to overcome with practice.

QFG2: That was the most difficult game I ever played at that time. Why? Well, all of the sudden I found myself typing commands!!!! and IN ENGLISH!!! I would spend hours in front of my dictionary translating hundreds of messages just to find out that there was no clue of what item should I ask for/ get /buy.
I admit that once I start learning english, I really had fun with it. The test to be admited in the Wizard School; trying to find out how to save Julanar; and visiting Azizza for more clues, fighting the elements...
I agree that Raseir was a little annoying because of the timing (waiting for the night) however, I remember the first time I played, for those minutes of wait, I was so tense.... such a suspense... because I could be caught by the guards any moment.... and I love that!!!

QFG4: Bugs, bugs, bugs. Good thing was that when I played for the first time, (in DOS) I had no problem at all. (of course I think it was playing in a 486). Bad thing was when I tried to play it in windows, it just didn't want to work. Till today, I keep playing the DOS version (floppy disk version) and I don't have that many problems. But some bugs do show up from time to time.

QFG5: Very dissapointed. The game lost it's feeling. all that 3d junk made the game very poor. I remember talking with the Coles way before the game was released, and I specificaly asked about Erana and Katrina. I really wanted to save both!!! The fighting system was the worst!!! The maps were horrible and the music was simple bad!!!
I loved QFG4's music, and I can not understand why they did such a change.
Till today, everytime I play it, I still have a hard time to go to the Dragon Pit at the end of the game. Most of the times, I get trapped inside the house even when I do the right thing to get out of there, 80% of the times it doesn't work.
The only thing that I liked was the reunion of most of the characters from other QFG.

Anyway... I still love all of them... I wish I could play QFG2VGA anytime soon...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:35 pm 
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QFG2 is a really good example of a game that hops across the line delineating my personal preferences when it comes to time management.

Before going to Raseir, events happened in their own time.  This meant that, yes, I had to wait for the next elemental, and there were times when there was nothing else to do, but in Shapeir, these things gave me the sense that the world was exactly that: a world, independent of the player (although it must be said, I found that I had more than enough time to do everything I needed to do during that flurry of events following the Earth Elemental). It also helped define the villain and build a sense of anticipation: clearly, here was someone who didn't give a rat's posterior about some two-bit wannabe hero knocking out his elementals.  He was working according to his own unfathomable time table, hero or no, and his purposes thereby became all the more inscrutable: just what was his real goal?  If the success or failure of his elementals wasn't a huge deal to him, what was?  By the time the caravan was set to leave, I was in a right state, wondering just what sort of surprises were in store for me when I got to Raseir and what sort of bad@ss wizard I'd be facing.

And then... time became irritating.  Where I could have gone to the inn to fast forward by a day or three, now I was bound to just . . . waiting . . . it . . . out.  Where there were lots of people to talk to and things to buy, there were now cracked flagstone plazas, bare fountains, and unresponsive guards.  In short, time became an obstacle, rather than an aid.  A frustration, rather than an enhancement.  I also just set the Time Scale to maximum and then went away from the computer: simply nothing else to do even for a bored hero, but more importantly, no "Rest Until Evening" way to beam ahead a few hours, like there was in Shapeir.

So... this game for me got time both Beautifully Right, and Butt-Ugly Wrong.  Right, in that my sense of the setting and the villain and the villain's agenda were enhanced by the fact that events weren't necessarily and arbitrarily tied to my actions as a player, but Wrong in that in Raseir, there was no good way to jump ahead a few hours and get on with the much-more-urgent-seeming plot line.

That's one aspect of QFG2 that I hope they're going to change for the VGA version: let me rest in the Dead Parrot.  Somehow.

Edit: Oh, and I also thought the combat model used in QFG4 was the best in the series.  Granted, that's not saying much, since I avoid close combat whenever humanly possible, but still... those Necrotaurs could be nasty, even for a maxed out hero.  All of the other combats in all of the other games I found trivial by comparison.

Besides, seeing that huge, souped-up flame dart spell burst out from my Hero... seeing it literally consume any and all incoming spells... seeing it blow through the Chernovy's spell shield.  Niiice.   :smokin


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:42 pm 
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Don't worry, waiting for the time to pass in Raseir will be minimal in QFG2VGA.

I liked the QFG4 combat system for those reasons too. Sheer flashiness and both the hero and the opponents duking it out with various means that all looked awesome. In previous battle systems, there was very little variety between how each enemy felt and handled...a ghoul and a griffin mostly differed through the sprite and stats, but both acted the same, stand in front of the hero and throw a left or right-handed attack at him on occasion. In QFG4, the enemies had a wide variety of fighting styles and attacks, from swoops, poison stings and shield spells to charging the hero or tossing fireballs at him at various levels. My main gripe was that statistics like weapon use, parry and dodge were completely eliminated in purpose. They made no difference in battle whatsoever, what mostly mattered was your own skill and your basic stats of strength and vitality. Oh, and big spells were majorly overpowered.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:18 pm 
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Yes, the uselessness of the stats as something that I noticed too.  Dodge was useful against some things (Vorpal bunnies), same deal with Parry (Badders), but what's a hero going to do against a necrotaur that insists on charging headlong into him?  Parry half a ton of raging beast? :D  I noticed a slight increase in my hero's ability to dodge a badder as he got better with that skill, but was it enough to make a difference in respect to either my own dexterity with the mouse or with the other ways of dealing with the problem?  No.  Manual dexterity was the overriding concern in that game, not the skill level of the character.

Those mega spells, though... agree and disagree.  Against (again) necrotaurs, you needed to have a good bit of timing and luck if you were going to get a big spell off (again with the Manual Dexterity vs Stats issue), and maybe pepper the thing with a few small spells in between to create some separation; I often found that necrotaurs were easier to take down with the small but frequent spells alone.  Badders flew above the spell, no matter how big it was, and bunnies hopped below unless it tried one of those flying leaps from halfway across the screen (ha!  Eat flame, Bunny!). It made wraiths and chernovy a joke, though, and that was a bit of a shame since those were easily my two favourite enemies to fight. Revenants were utterly trivial with those big spells.  I only rarely used it, though, precisely for that reason.  I preferred the give and take of the small spell battles.  Let one off, jump over the incoming spell, let another couple off, duck beneath the incoming spell... those were easily the best spell fights I've had in this series (aside from the scripted wizard duels in QFG3).  It was a good way out of a fight that was taking a little too long, though.... and, as I say, it was an impressive way out, too.  So, the mega spells were overpowered, IMO, but not overpoweringly so. :)

Good to hear about the waiting thing, though. :thumbs up:  Looking forward to seeing the game (still. :D)


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