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 Post subject: Quest for Glory locales
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:54 am 
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The QfG series is well known for its diverse locales based on real Earth regions, whether it's Northern Europe (I), the Middle East (II), Africa (III), Eastern Europe / Russia (IV), or the Mediterranean (V).  One huge region not covered though is the Far East.

Hypethetically speaking if there was another QfG game (not that I plan to make one), this would be a great region to base a new story in.  I know with all the Japanese companies out there and with America's obesession with ninja-based stories in the past few decades, this could easily become cliche.  Therefore, I propose this game could take place in a medieval-like China to try and avoid some of these stereotypes.  I'm not saying Japan has to be totally left out either.  It could possibly be included as a sub-region, along with other distinct old Eastern cultures, such as Korea and Siam.  Some old contacts from Mordavia could also show up, as real world Russia borders China.

The hero has proven (in QfG V) that he is capable of besting a powerful European-type dragon (with help).  Since Eastern dragons typically fight for the cause of Good, maybe they hear of this and possibly contact the Hero for help in a situation beyond their ability to fight.  Or maybe bureaucratic red tape (a strong theme in some Eastern stories) is keeping the dragons from coming to a consensus, so the Hero is brought in as an arbiter of sorts.  Perhaps an outside power is subtly influencing the dragons into dissent with each other.

I know there are a few diverse endings to QfG V that don't necessarily mesh.  Whether or not the Hero is King of Silmaria or not and other details may have some bearing on the setup of the story, but could be rendered a moot point if handled properly.  Lets save that for another discussion.

Feel free to post what other details you think could be in this hypothetical game.  Also, let me know what you think of this idea in general.

This isn't about actually making a new QfG game, just theorizing, so that's why I didn't put it in the Game Making forum.


Last edited by Schloss Ritter on Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:03 pm 
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sounds interesting, i'd just have to say; let's start with a whole new hero and let the other guy rule silmaria.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:59 pm 
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Actually, I think the "Asian" setting is a really great idea for a "hero" game.  If done correctly, the art would be beautiful.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Yes, quite an interesting idea. Would be awesome if someone actually did it. Though I'd also heard an idea of the Hero travelling to Wolfie's country, which is based on India if I remember correctly.




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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:54 pm 
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Wolfie does say he would enjoy it in QFGV. I like the idea of an asian adventure though. The time period tihng though would have irked me but then again the series does actually move around like that. Some places are nearly prehistoric while others are in renaissance which I always kind of liked. A hero of all ages, for all ages. Come to think of it he reminds me of another blonde and mute hero of time.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:05 pm 
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I really like the idea.  It seems a lot of good things could be brought to each character.

The fighter could master his battle skills, especially expanding it to fighting (and fighting in) groups.  The focus can be on accuracy and even death strokes at the highest levels, with knowledge of his enemies.

The mage can learn more mystical arts.  Perhaps he could be introduced to combining magic and herbs.

Among like-minded people, the paladin can truly focus on his honor.

The thief, being in a culture where honor is truly valued (much like Tarna), must rely on mastering stealth more than ever to succeed in his trade.  He can also be introduced to a darker branch of his profession: assassination.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:23 am 
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Yeah, I could see the Hero and some close companions leading an army akin to Piotyr and Erana against the Dark One and his Cult in the back story to QfG IV.  His role in the ultimate showdown would depend on his class in a way.  There's a saying, "begin with the end in mind" so I am thinking of ideas for what some of the final scenarios would be.

The Paladin could lead the elite Honor troops, perhaps alongside Dragons, over the fortress walls and against rogue Dragons and elites.

The Fighter could head up the mass of rank and file troops, in a mass siege of the enemy fortess walls and enemy masses.

The Thief could sneak inside the enemy fortress, sabatage their operations, and even lower the gate for another great ally (new or old) to lead the masses inside.  He could then sneak through the place, searching for the enemy leader.

The Wizard would have powerful spells at his disposal.  Even non-offensive spells prove very useful.  What's a massive locked gate verses a level 500+ Open spell?

Each path would lead to a one on one confrontation with (or assassination of) the great villian of the story.  Who's this great villian you ask?  I was thinking of the greatest Brigand leader of all time, a Ghengis Khan like figure, to tie the theme back to the brigand opressed valley back in the first game.  If you don't know the ending to QfG V, don't read the rest of this paragraph.  Yeah, I know there was kind of an anti-climactic villian responsible for the dragon in QfG V, but it doesn't have to be like that.

In the end, the Hero could be given the option of becoming Emperor of the East in addition to his other titles, or pass it on to a worthy local leader.  Quite a responsibility for a one-time unknown adventurer from a small village.


Last edited by Schloss Ritter on Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:14 am 
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At Hero6 we had a big support for an Asian setting, but when we did a bit of research we realized that too few of us actually have the knowledge of Asian culture and styles to make the game successfully. (Obviously there's a few people from Asia in the team, but not enough.)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:59 am 
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I've always thought it would be more interesting to accelerate time a bit and put the hero into a much different setting, lets say into a gunpowder age.  Each character would have to develop in such a manner that he would still need old skills but would have to adapt to incorporate new skills in order to survive.  The fighter would start using a variety of new weapons in addition to swordsmanship, the Wizard would have to start learning how to create new spells on his own as magic users would become more scarce and might even have to begin to become something of a recluse.  The thief would become something would have to become some combination of a swashblucker (more rogue like) and a shameless opportunist.  And the Paladin would not adapt to use new weapons but would have to develop and learn new skills, maybe even something almost Jedi-like.

Still though, a new world setting would be expected and I think an Orient-based one would be perfect   ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:55 am 
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Gronagor wrote:
At Hero6 we had a big support for an Asian setting, but when we did a bit of research we realized that too few of us actually have the knowledge of Asian culture and styles to make the game successfully. (Obviously there's a few people from Asia in the team, but not enough.)


I was figuring any potential project would have research involved.  I'm sure the Coles did some amount of research to portray their games as regionally accurate at all.  The scope of this story would probably be too big for a fan project anyway, so lets assume some research has / will be done.

As for advancing technology, the Medieval Chinese were ahead of Europe technologically in some ways, including with explosives.  I suppose there could be some of the gunpowder ideas worked in too.

I forgot to post something under the Wizard above.  Isn't it about time for the Wizard Hero to earn his Familiar?  Perhaps a small Dragon would be appropriate?

Also, fantasy Paladins sometimes have a bonded Mount.  There could be a number of land (horse, saurus) or flying (pegasis, Eastern dragon) options that may fit here.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:18 am 
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No, I wouldn't say the Coles was successful in their research... for example, they admitted that with QfG3 they only took a few pics from the net and books, and then combined it with Jamaican culture (which they know)... obviously that's why many people found the game not quite 'believable'. Same goes with QfG4. They've taken a few cultures from Eastern Europe they know something about, but quite a few things wasn't quite correct when it comes to style and culture.

With those they got away with it, but with an Asian culture you'll make an a$$ out of yourself if you do the same thing.

PS: I'm not demotivating anyone, I'm just saying an Asian setting will be the most difficult thing to do, unless you have a few experts involved... and at least one in the art team. (We've had quite a few asians/asian-experts in Hero6, but not in the Art-section and you can't simply 'tell' someone how to draw buildings and clothing from another culture.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:29 am 
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True.  I guess I was thinking more of Jane Jensen and the level of research in her games.

But since this thread is all hypothetical anyway, lets just assume these issues are taken care of.   :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Quest for Glory III was released in '92.  Online resources have become much more thorough in the last 15 years.  Starting with the wiki for East Asia you are bombarded with links to dozens of other pages.  And that's just the wiki (which provides links to its sources as well).  I disagree that dedicated research would be inadequate.  Also, remember that you have no obligation to absolute accuracy.  This is a fantasy game, after all (why ride camels when you can ride a saurus?) not a historically accurate reproduction.

But back on topic: S.R., I had ideas similar to yours about a final fight.  Mine involved the Fighter attacking with E.O.F., the mage with the members of W.I.T., the thief and his brethren infiltrating a fortress from "behind" and the Paladin with his small group also attacking in a similar fashion to the Fighter.   Would be fun to see.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:19 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:
With those they got away with it, but with an Asian culture you'll make an a$$ out of yourself if you do the same thing.


You could have easily have summed that up by simply saying, "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III."  :p


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:36 am 
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:lol Broomie.  Though I do remember being mildly entertained by that movie anyway.

I'm fresh out of ideas for the moment, and I have to admit I'm going off of second hand experience on all this so far anyway.  I suppose once actual research started, some of these ideas may be way off.

But it's still fun to conjecture (everyone up on their English lessons yet?).  Anyone can feel free to flesh things out if you come up with something else.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:35 am 
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I never felt the games were extremely historically or culturally accurate, but I also never felt that they needed to be.  The storylines were always well written and that was good enough for me  :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:49 pm 
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Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm not so sure about an Asian-themed QFG game.  I don't exactly know what it is, but that particular cultural setting just doesn't FEEL right to me for this particular series.  That said, I wasn't all too keen on the Greek setting either, but that one turned out pretty good, too, even though it had kind of a different feel than the others.  I always kind of thought that the European settings (QFG1, QFG4) worked the best, with the exception of QFG2, which was phenomenal in every way.  

I think part of the reason the Middle Eastern theme worked so well was a) because it had continuity with QFG1, both as a direct sequel storywise, but also in terms of the repeat characters, and b) because the historical/cultural setting was also a LITERARY setting (i.e. 1001 Arabian Nights) as well.  This fact gave the game designers a TON of stuff to draw on that was fresh, interesting, and just really cool.  They really played more on that literary source than anything else, and the resulting quality shows.  (For the record, I think the QFG2 has the best endgame of the series, and I think I might even go out on a limb and say it has the best endgame of any Sierra game ever, with the possible exception of KQ6.)

In QFG4, the original story and character creations seem to take precedence over the ones drawn from literary sources, which is certainly fine, since the storyline of QFG4 is fantastic.  However, the historical/cultural aspects that ARE there are drawn specifically from literary sources (i.e. Dracula, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc,) and as a result, are all the more memorable.

I really think it's the familiar literary connections that we make that make the specific settings and characters so memorable.  This is also partly, I think, why QFG3's story, setting, and characters just aren't as interesting.  There are no real literary sources from which to draw cool situations and characters.

QFG1 is the exception; its hodgepodge nature doesn't really include any real SPECIFIC literary sources or situations, but since it sets the stage for such a kickass series, it attains instant classic status without needing them.  Although many of the characters in the game are familiar fantasy characters (kobolds, ogres, trolls, druids, fairies, etc.) which certainly helps.

Now I'm not saying an Asian themed QFG COULDN'T work, but just that it'd be more difficult to pull off than any other cultural setting.  This isn't because people would be worried about accurately representing Asian culture and history (let's face it, nobody would care, as long as they got to play a new QFG game), but rather, I think, because Asian culture, history, and most importantly, literature, is so much more unfamiliar to people of Western culture than any other world region's background.  We all know what an Asian themed game should LOOK like, sure, but would people really be familiar enough with its history and literature to be impressed when certain types of characters and situations were introduced in the game?  I just don't think so.

I think if an Asian setting was to be done, and done well, it would have to have a number of things going on at once.  

First, the "Asian" aspects would have to be mostly aesthetic, to set the proper mood.  Some Asian story aspects would certainly be present, such as the importance of honor, perhaps an imperial cultural setup, etc.  But you'd have to be VERY careful not to get too obscure with source material, which could happen very quickly.  

Second, it would need to be a setup similar to Shapeir/Tarna, where a race of fantasy creatures (Liontaur, Katta) lived in conjunction with normal humans of the proper ethnicity.  All the non-Western settings in the QFG series had this particular characteristic (the ancient Greek setting of QFG5 IS Western, by the way, as Greece sets the foundations of Western culture, historically.)

Third, familiar literary source material, probably not specifically Asian material, would need to be incorporated as well, to keep the game interesting and relatable to the average player.

Lastly, and most importantly, the story would just have to be really good.  That's the key to any good adventure game really.  All of the best QFG games had a really strong story, one that tied in most of the "original" (read: not drawn from literature) characters and aspects of the story together in a cohesive and interesting way.

Like I said, the Asian setting is one that could be very interesting if done right, but I think that it's also a setting that could be SO easily botched, simply due to the fact that it's one of the most foreign non-Western settings there is, and you need to create characters and situations that the average player (read: non-Asiophiles) can relate to and be interested in, and I just don't think that Asian literature and mythology is familiar enough to most people to properly do this.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:20 pm 
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Lambonius wrote:
This isn't because people would be worried about accurately representing Asian culture and history (let's face it, nobody would care, as long as they got to play a new QFG game),


*I* would care. Nothing is more off-putting than seeing things that shouldn't be used that way, like items that should be hung on walls but are treated as mats, or signboards that really shouldn't appear anywhere else except a courtroom, or tattoos that the 'LOST' producers claim mean one thing when they so clearly mean something else to anyone who can read them, or giving a character a really terrible sounding name unintentionally (like prawn).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:31 pm 
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Yeah, but irregardless, those wouldn't be game-ruining or story-killing examples, just small details that most people would probably even notice, let alone care about.  There are always going to be people who scrutinize for that sort of thing, but they will be in the minority.  I sympathize, because I'm usually a scrutinizer as well, but I think realistically, it only really matters if it looks right.

I personally wouldn't want to play a QFG that was in a realistic setting at all.  These are settings that are inspired by real locales, not imitating or recreating them.  Also, I don't think I'd want any actual Asian lettering in the game, but rather do like QFG2 did and write signs and things in the style of that type of lettering, so being able to actually read it or not wouldn't even make a difference.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:47 pm 
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No, they can be and are immersion-breaking. It's dangerous to assume that only a small minority would notice it, and it's also insulting to those who would notice it. It does affect the credibility of the story, and even those who wouldn't know what's wrong would be able to sense that it's not that believable, as Gron wrote earlier. Take the 'Lost' episode for example. That episode with the tattoo was rated as one of the worst episodes ever in 'Television Without Pity' forums, and viewers could tell that the writers messed it up even without having intimate knowledge of Thai or Chinese culture.

I personally wouldn't want to play a game with a fake language or lettering if it's going to be borrowing real cultural elements. Who knows whether people might accidentally use the word "diarrhoea" as a praise word. Hey, it was someone's tattoo, and that person didn't know. Just because he/she couldn't read it doesn't mean that it didn't make a difference.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:08 pm 
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I think you might misunderstand me.  I'm not advocating a misuse or an accidental use of any actual language, nor am I suggesting a fake or invented language, though those can work well in the right contexts (the alien dialects in the KOTOR games, for example.)  I was thinking more along the lines of some of the signage in QFG2 that was written in english (or whichever language the game came in) but stylized in an Arabian kind of font.  That's even assuming the signs would be legible at all.  Many games, QFG2 included, would just have the sign appear blank, or have some illegible markings on it (illegible more due to resolution and image clarity than faking a written style) and then upon examining an item you are simply given the proper description.

I certainly realize that obvious discrepancies, and even not-so-obvious ones can be immersion-breaking, but like I said, how realistic is a fantasy game ever going to be?  'Lost' is a tv show that attempts to be about real people in a real setting, even if they get into extraordinary situations.  Therefore, when a show like 'Lost' gets a detail stupidly wrong, it really hurts the credibility.  If a fantasy game like QFG takes some design liberties with an art/architectural style, I don't see how that is immersion breaking at all.  The "Egyptian" architecture of Tarna was certainly exaggerated and unrealistic, but that didn't kill the effect of the fantasy setting because it was just that, a fantasy setting.  The simple fact of the matter is, the setting is not going to be China or Japan or any real East Asian country.  The game would simply have an Asian look to it.  I certainly think that it is possible for something to have an Asian look to it without specifically implicating a particular country's culture.  If the ideal of generalizing a culture or region's art/architecture style bothers you, then you'd have to avoid ALL of the QFG games. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Certain languages like Chinese can't be stylised because you can create unintentional words with unflattering meanings. This has happened before. You only need to google up botched up tattoo jobs to see what I mean.

'Lost' is still a fantasy/sci-fi setting, so it does count.

I don't mind if a game takes some liberties with a culture as long as it's still largely true to it. Take World of Warcraft as an example. It used the Lunar New Year festival and incorporated it into the game world, and it's very well done. Even though the Nian (Year) monster was renamed as Omen, most of the elements were done right and so I'm fine with the name change. Take Order of the Stick as another example. Even though the author changed the twelve animals of the zodiac to twelve gods, it's still ok because there wasn't anything in that Japan-like city that was glaringly wrong.

But if a game were to get everything wrong, from the architecture to the dressing to even the names, then that I'd take issue with. It would be as bad as calling "Tokyo Tower" "Radio Tower" like in Card Captor Sakura and think that nobody would know.

I've seen amatuer attempts to create the "Asian" look, and they usually look like poorly done mish-mash of Japan and China elements.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:14 pm 
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Swift wrote:
I've seen amatuer attempts to create the "Asian" look, and they usually look like poorly done mish-mash of Japan and China elements.


I know what you mean.  Personally, I'd avoid the more developed East Asian countries like China and Japan, using their cultural elements quite sparingly, if at all.  I think countries like Burma or Cambodia would make for a much more interesting QFG-style game, what with their ancient temples and thick jungles.  I could also see the hero journeying to a Tibetan-style locale with secluded monestaries and vast mountain landscapes.  It's all still East Asian, but I think those countries would be more in keeping with the QFG style than throwing the hero right into a China/Japan-esque setting.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:32 pm 
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Yes that could be a better way to go about it, but then again it may be even harder to research information on smaller cultures.

As for inaccuracies popping up, there is precedent in the series for some divergence from the real world, as Gronagor said above.  This may turn off those looking for realism, but QfG is not on the real Earth anyway.  Instead of coming up with reasons these ideas won't work, try to come up with some ideas that may work.   :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:24 am 
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Continuing QfG is a hard task indeed.

my own new comic is attempting to do such.(in the comic's setting, there's an academy people enroll in to learn how to be heroes, sorta like a big physical FACS... the headmaster hasn't been shown yet, but it will be heavily IMPLIED he's Devon... )


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