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 Post subject: Proposal - "Buying" QFG2VGA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:06 pm 
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I have a quick idea I'd like to suggest.
As a huge QFG fan from my younger days, I've been really looking forward to QFG2VGA for a while, and I'd be willing to pay for it.
However, I realise that due to copyright issues, this isn't possible. Like a lot of other people here, I've also become slightly frustrated with the wait and I have a potential solution.

This idea would require a number of other people participating. With over 3000 members on this board, it would definitly be possible.
Basically, as many of us as possible would put a small amount of money(as low as $5) into a holding fund through paypal. If QFG2 is released by a specific date, that money goes to AGDI. If not, it is fully returned to all the contributors.

Hopefully, this would encourage AGDI to put extra work to get it done by a specific date, and would help guarantee that we all get a completed work on a specific date.

It AVOIDS copyright problems because all of the contributors are not buying anything. We get no greater  rights than the public at large. Both a non-contributor and a contributor will still be able to download the game.

However, it also encourages us fans to donate. I don't need to worry about giving money and in the end, no game is produced, since money is returned if the game doesn't come out. Secondly it stops "freeloaders"- people who let other people donate and reap the benefits: If the 'fund' doesn't reach a targetted amount, the deal won't happen.

There are a few problems obviously(exact organization, possibility of AGDI releasing a less-than optimal game to meet deadlines), but I think this is a good idea. It also lets all of us contribute to the development of the game. While I don't have the artistic and technical abilities to contribute like the AGDI team does, I would still like to support the game and this is how I can do it.

What do people think?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:32 pm 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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There are several reasons why this isn't feasible:

1) We're already working as fast and as hard as we can. Money is nice to have, but it's not the key factor here. Assuming that cash will somehow motivate us to release the game faster, would be disregarding the fact that we are now in the clean-up phase and are trying to make the game stable for your enjoyment. Rushing at this stage would defeat the purpose of having a clean-up phase in the first place.  It'd also be somewhat like offering the world's best athlete a million dollars if he could run a three-minute mile. Some things just aren't possible, even if there are appealing kickbacks involved. There's always a time vs. ability trade-off and we wouldn't feel comfortable compromising the quality of the game in that way.

2)As soon as we have a situation where money is changing hands, we have an obligation to both meet deadlines and ensure high quality. If we cannot physically or realistically meet either expectation, then fans will only grow more annoyed at us. And then they'll also start throwing the 'but we're paying money!' argument into the debate.

3) Regardless of how you arranged to pay any money, our agreement with Vivendi states quite clearly that we are not allowed to profit from the remakes. Donations might be different BUT it's something we don't even want to risk. If we started doing something like that, chances are the project could be closed down and then nobody would ever get to play it.

The only thing that is going to pay off in the end, is patience.

By the way, if you truly want to financially support us, buy a copy of Al Emmo. You can use it as a doorstop/paperweight if you don't like it.


Last edited by Anonymous Game Creator 2 on Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:32 pm 
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Two problems with this.

1: By getting the game to come out quicker by promise of compensation it drastically alters the motivational purpose of the team's focus. They'll either no longer be doing it for the game and the love but for the money and as a result rush things and make mistakes and otherwise not make it as good as it could be) or they'll lose heart and motivation altogether because of the inevitable deadline.

2: I don't think Vivendi is going to see the purpose of the contributions the same was as we would. They'd find a way to sue. Heck it's probably written in their legal contract somehow that they signed to be officially licensed in the first place.

I don't think it's money AGDI is after anyway nor would they want it for a labour of love.

EDIT: AGD2 beat me to it  :p

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:16 pm 
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I thought of donations too, months ago, not as an encouragement to finish up the game, but a token of appreciation. I guess AGD2 is rite. We can always buy Al Emmo as a token of appreciation for the 3 remakes they did.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Even if it did cost money I'd still pay, regardless, I'm really thankful for everything you guys are doing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:29 am 
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People should understand that making these games takes an extreme amount of time and dedication. Some people might be frustrated at AGDI for taking so long in finishing QFG2.. well you shouldnt be!

I know for a fact how long it takes for a team to complete a game, and i also know how having priorities work. AGDI and Himalaya Studies might be 2 separated companies but they share the same workers. Al Emmo set back the production of AGDI projects that is for sure, and in the case of QFG2.. it was already quite a task to do.

QFG2 will probably be the most complex game released in the AGS engine, from my work at IA and looking at the development of games of this sort i know how daunting the task may be. By now im pretty sure AGDI has "finished" QFG2 and that they are heavy into the testing phases.. the truth of the matter is that is a huge task.. as complex as QFG2 was.. so will the remake and there are tons of possibilities for bugs. Hell remember that even the Sierra originals had bug and in some cases just made it impossible to finish the games.

The AGDI's have to consider this quite a bit, they have already set a standard with Kq2+ and as any company it can only push to raise the bar further up. Im sure AGDI's must be working to put this game out as soon as possible.. and I hope they dont forget to raise the bar.  

Now, this isnt random ass-kissing.. this is my point of view because I can relate.

Peace. NOW BACK TO WORK! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:31 am 
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As AGD2 says, buy Al Emmo if you want to support the devs.

That way you get something for your money, too. I certainly had a lot more fun with it than with the doorstop I could have bought instead. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:50 am 
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ok, so dont use the money as an INCENTIVE to hurry up, use the money to hire more programmers. This means more people are working on it at once, and THAT means speed. Youll still have your original dedicated group of programmers and the extras that are paid, that will speed it up. Also with regards to Al Emmo and Broken Swords cant anyone sell online? like i just pay via paypal and get a download link?

Anyway thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:31 am 
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The game is already at its alpha testing stage. It's only a matter of identifying bugs and fixing them before they go for beta. Don't think they need more programmers at the moment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:31 am 
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Adding programmers to a project does not speed up development, especially this late.  It takes time to get a new programmer up to speed, and any time spent training these new recruits is time that can't be spent actually programming.  They're currently in bug-fixing mode and it's much easier to recognize and fix bugs when you're familiar with the code.

And asking for money for any reason really isn't a possibility with this remake.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:30 am 
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Yeah, I'd think that paying people to work on the game is a no-no as far s the permission/agreement thing might go.    As I understand it it was supposed to be an entirely "free" effort.

Really, I understand people are impatient for this game to come out, but... it'll come out when it comes out.  You'll be glad of the persistance they made into giving it the utmost playability.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:50 am 
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alright, but p.s

can people stop saying "it will come out when it comes out" god thats annoying, think of something more creative like....

Shut you dumb retard, the game will be realesed when its finished.

haha, but seriously..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:44 am 
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Quote:
can people stop saying "it will come out when it comes out" god thats annoying, think of something more creative like....

Shut you dumb retard, the game will be realesed when its finished.


What's the difference between the two?  Besides, the answer's not nearly as annoying as the question and if someone's going to ask an uncreative question, well, they're only reaping what they've sown.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:58 am 
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*I* wish the AGC's would ignore idiots altogether and get back to the game ;)

- Alistair

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:57 am 
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Same here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:12 am 
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There may be "idiots" out there that don't know how this kind of thing works, but at least they make an effort to communicate with other like minded gamers. :hat

Not every adventure game fan knows about AG what nots and programming engines.
Alot of them barely know how to use a PC, and they still grew up with these games.
You don't have to be a computer genius to play these old classics, give the "idiots" a break.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:24 am 
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I wasn't talking at all about programming, or being some "computer genius". You obviously didn't read what I wrote. But I get the feeling you never read what you're replying to very thoroughly anyway.

By 'idiots' I'm referring to posts like this:
Quote:
can people stop saying "it will come out when it comes out" god thats annoying, think of something more creative like....

Shut you dumb retard, the game will be realesed when its finished.

That is a rude, unhelpful, idiotic post that only serves to piss the AGC's off. Which it (unfortunately) does, and they reply to it. Hence me saying, I wish they'd work on the game and ignore people like this instead of replying to them.

If it was my forum, I'd delete the post and move on.

- Alistair

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:21 am 
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Alistair, I was not quoting you, I was quoting the entire thread.

I read everything through. I just don't quote people, I would rather call them by name.

I agree with you.
Saying things like "dumb retard" are idiotic things to say, unless they have a good reason to say it. On this thread, I see no reason for that kind of fire.
Never delete a post though, give them a chance to learn or apologize for words that were misguided.
Altough, I did defend said "idiot"

000lynx is probably confused and needs guidance.
He/She probably does not know the people here, and is new to these forums, all AGaming forums.
Many of them come out of the woodwork. They are looking to buy an old game, and they come across a good site such as this.

Thanks Alistair.

Back to the topic.

Paying for a release, faster release, or just paying for AGDI QFG2, right?

I think when money gets involved Sierra would want some of it.
I would love to put some money into these things, but money draws the other people. The slippery ones. AKA, the lawyers.  AGDI would have to seriously change the game in order to get a profit off of a project such as a Trial remake.
As far as I know, the remake will be only about 5% original, just enough to escape certain copyrights.
All in all, I believe the QFG2 VGA remake will be about 95% to the classic, sport the Tierra title, and will be great.
I will be amazed to find the few conversation topics I never knew about, and test them to the original.
Feedback, please. No punches here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am 
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Or you could just simply buy Al Emmo. It's the only feasible option if you want to support them. Blackmailing AGDI with money just so they can work faster is a ridiculous idea. It just makes it seem that AGDI aren't even working on it at a regular pace and coming back to it every so often. As part of a game developing team I can say there is a reason this is taking so long and you just need to trust them on this. I may sound like a broken record but the fans would rather have a fully functional game than a buggy QFG4 esque nightmare.

Money won't change the speed of production, and it could even put the project in jeopardy. QFG2VGA is freeware. If you want to show your support than as I said do so through purchasing Al Emmo. Maybe even again if you already own it and give it to a friend.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:58 pm 
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I wouldn't call it blackmailing...it'd be more bribing than blackmailing anyway.

As we've said before, we're working on it as fast as we can. Aside from legal and moral issues, the promise of money isn't going to speed up the process because of the simple reason that it's not like we've abandoned the game and need money to regain our motivation. AGD2 already made a lot of valid points, so I'm not going to repeat his post here. The only way to support us is to give us the time to finish the game properly.

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 Post subject: Hey
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:13 am 
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I've been waiting over 10 years for the release of Duke Nukem Forever.

When that game is released, I will buy it and it will have been worth the wait.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:21 am 
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Erpy, please go work on the game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:27 am 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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How about you go and work on your manners first, eh?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:30 am 
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Am I the only person who thinks that comment is rather random?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:32 pm 
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Erpy wrote:
Quote:
Am I the only person who thinks that comment is rather random?


Mmh, let me see...

Alistair wrote:
Quote:
*I* wish the AGC's would ignore idiots altogether and get back to the game Wink


And Ibanezrg82 replied:

Quote:
I agree with you.


And then:

Quote:
Erpy, please go work on the game.


Yep, I think that's the connection. Although a little bit rude (I think that's Ibanezrg82's "style"  ;) ), I think it was no random at all, it was just a reaffirmation of the previous statement, which is: "Please (he did say please) stop answering all of the rubbish we desperate fans post and spend your time working in the game".

I won't be so rude. Erpy, please go and do with your time whatever you feel like and only work in the game if you feel like working in the game, OK?  ;) We'll all be patient. Promise. And those who don't... well, they'll have a problem, I guess.

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