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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:28 am 
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Gronagor wrote:
In other words, the game should be prepared for cheaters/hackers?

Hmmm.... if you're a wothwhile hacker, you should be able to fix any bugs you encounter yourself.  :lol

I think that if a bug can occur it should be fixed. I'm not saying it should enable cheats or whatever, that's what you make of it.

But this is getting a useless discussion. I really don't see the difference between editing your stats to 200 through a hex edit, or by spending 15 mins in the game holding down the enter key and getting that same stat to 200.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:37 am 
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Does that, in your opinion, mean that the bug shouldn't be fixed? I think that if there's a good chance a bug will occur (either by cheating or not), then it should be fixed


After fixing more "phantom bugs" than I ever hoped to, bugs that were caused by visiting a room by warping there, having an item you shouldn't have at that point or having played around with the time warp debug option, my opinion is a big fat "no". There's a big difference between a bug that takes place because the game code is faulty and a bug that takes place because you mess around with the game mechanics that are supposed to enforce the "rules". It's fair to expect the game to play as it should, but only if the player also shows the courtesy to play as he should.

I suppose if someone wants to hex edit his stats to 200, there's not much we can do against it (although the game itself is scripted to automatically deal with any illegal values that could cause trouble, such as skills below 0 or above 200 or 250 in case of the two djinni-raised stats), but a good alternative would be to just spend a "game hour" each day tossing a bunch of rocks and getting a high stat by the end of day 16 instead of throwing 3000 rocks or more before the sun sets on day 1, just for the sake of getting max stats as early as possible and then sleeping the days away after day 8 or so.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:57 pm 
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^Mo^, I'm also just saying that AGDI can't be kept 'responsible' for errors occuring when a save game gets edited from outside.

There's just too many variables to consider.

But this discussion will just go back to the old one: why cheat?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:
^Mo^, I'm also just saying that AGDI can't be kept 'responsible' for errors occuring when a save game gets edited from outside.

There's just too many variables to consider.

But this discussion will just go back to the old one: why cheat?

First of all, I don't consider it cheating, it's merely taking a short cut because the end result can (e.g. for throwing) be attained by holding down enter for a while to pick up as many rocks as you can, and then holding down the enter key to throw 'em around. The end result is a maxed stat, the method just differs.

And to answer your question, if you are beta testing you're doing so many repetitive things already. Going over the same thing over and over and over again. Personally, I wouldn't want to spend an extra hour on just throwing rocks or something to get my throw skill maxed out


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:24 pm 
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Gron's specifically referring to hacking the game with a hex editor to change variables and stats that the game would not otherwise allow you to have at certain points and places. This would indeed cause countless numbers crashes for SO many unforeseeable things that it's in no way feasible to invest time to fixing them, because players who play through the game as intended will never run into these glitches.

On the other hand, you seem to be talking about simply holding down the Enter key to max stats out? While that might be considered cheating by some, it's not in the same league of cheating that we're talking about here. What you're suggesting still works withing the mechanics of the intended gameplay. Simply holding down a key (or putting one of those bobbing water ducks into action to repeatedly press your mouse button) while you go and do other stuff won't break anything or cause bugs. Hey, you might be greeted with a Death GUI upon your return to the PC due to overexerting your hero, but rest assured that the game won't crash because of it!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:33 pm 
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^Mo^ wrote:
I really don't see the difference between editing your stats to 200 through a hex edit, or by spending 15 mins in the game holding down the enter key and getting that same stat to 200.


One difference is that you can edit your stats any time you want, whereas you cannot, say, always throw rocks around.  Say you enter an area where stat-practice is not really possible, then edit your stats while in that area, and something weird happens (such as a crash, a dead-end, or just something very odd); you say, "hey, this is a bug, I found a bug!"  But when you entered that area, the game set up a bunch of variables related to that area according to what your stats were when you entered that area, and you've confused the programming because now your stats and the variables don't match up any more.  In other words, it's a bug that never would have happened if you hadn't magicked around with your stats.

Of course you can always just avoid playing around with your stats after passing through and being under the influence one of these stat "gateways".  You just need to know exactly where and when all these "gateways" are, and where and what they apply to.  But if you aren't the programmer, you won't know this.  If you ARE the programmer, you may not remember it all.

Another consideration is that the game may be executing a "tracking" script of some sort every time you perform some action that can alter your stats.  It might simply be checking your stats to see if they've reached a certain level, perhaps in order to change some other variable, or it might be incrementing some other sort of counter.  If you just hex-edit your stats, you bypass this script, pulling the rugs around under the programming.  Computer programs really don't like having the rugs pulled around under them.  They're kind of like idiot savants with epilepsy.

You could also design the game so that it responds gracefully and beautifully to every combination of stats and/or variables in every situation, regardless of possibility or sense.  I am not one of the QFG2VGA devs, but I think that, depending on whether we're talking only about stats or not, and on other factors, such a project would probably be doable in another 2-to-28 years.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:36 am 
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well cheat or not keep up the good work guys! and continue stapping those bugs  :hat


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:00 pm 
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Erpy wrote:
Quote:
After fixing more "phantom bugs" than I ever hoped to, bugs that were caused by visiting a room by warping there, having an item you shouldn't have at that point or having played around with the time warp debug option, my opinion is a big fat "no". There's a big difference between a bug that takes place because the game code is faulty and a bug that takes place because you mess around with the game mechanics that are supposed to enforce the "rules". It's fair to expect the game to play as it should, but only if the player also shows the courtesy to play as he should.



Image


So do the beta testers have times where they use cheat codes to get to where they want to test, and then after they think they've fixed enough problems, do a "dry run" to test  and play the game like a regular gamer would without cheat codes to see if it works correctly?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:36 pm 
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No, the beta's are limiting themselves to "dry runs" in order to make sure each issue reported is replicatable by playing "the normal way".

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:12 pm 
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so is there an official date if release yet for qf2? im dying for this remake ><


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:30 pm 
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Dee wrote:
so is there an official date if release yet for qf2? im dying for this remake ><


I'm sure they will announce the official release date, the day AFTER they release it.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:32 pm 
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No, there isn't because we still have to finish the RC build and have it tested. (we've been working on some major tweaks in the alleyway system the last few days)

We do have a certain time in mind for the release, but due to Murphy's law, I'm not going to give that out in public.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:55 pm 
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Erpy wrote:
(we've been working on some major tweaks in the alleyway system the last few days)

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Wow, does that mean... no more underground maze Shapeir city?

Great! :D


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Just wondering how Beta Testing is going overall?

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:39 pm 
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I'll tell you how beta testing is going. It was halted because someone's avatar took up all the forum space and nobody could read any of the latest posts and, therefore, no work was done.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:21 pm 
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MusicallyInspired wrote:
I'll tell you how beta testing is going. It was halted because someone's avatar took up all the forum space and nobody could read any of the latest posts and, therefore, no work was done.


:lol  Pet peeve?


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:42 pm 
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I was actually just scrolling down to write the same thing  :rollin

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:34 pm 
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That's a BIG avatar!  WHOA NELLY!

Bt

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:52 am 
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I don't see the problem.  We all just need to increase our desktop resolution to 2 million by 1 million.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:32 pm 
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gamecreator wrote:
I don't see the problem.  We all just need to increase our desktop resolution to 2 million by 1 million.


Well, Geez!  Why didn't I think of that?

Bt

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:35 pm 
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funny how we can be bothered by something so trivial yet still cannot answer a question so I say again, please, what is a current impression of Beta Testing? And that's the last time that damn avatar goes up;)

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Well seeing as we're not on the beta team we can't answer that (actually I doubt even anyone on the beta team can answer that). Wait for an admin to answer your question.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Thanks

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:12 pm 
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I'd say beta testing is going reasonably well.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:20 pm 
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Is it over beta testing i mean and if it ant how many more days or month to it is?

and is there a way i can test the game too... :) lol

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