AGDInteractive - Sierra Adventure Game Remakes Forum

It would be cool if she had a cameo in QGF2VGA in some way

No. It wouldn't. It wouldn't make sense.

Wasn't Katrina expelled from W.I.T.?

Yeah, she was expelled. She's represented by the dark picture that hangs there. That's why you can't ask her to be your mentor at the WIT initiation. And that's why I'm afraid there's no way to fit her in.

That would sorta ruin the surprise of who she is in QFG4. I remember trying that in QFG2EGA just for giggles and of  course there was no clue who she was in WIT. I just have to wonder how far back they planned her character. I know she was cloaked in QFG3 and mentioned in the intro by Ad Avis. But was that black picture in WIT supposed to be her?

Since at the end of the original Trial by Fire, Shadows of Darkness is announced as the sequel with a vampiric moon and Ad Avis already mentions the Dark Master, I'm fairly positive the Coles already planned out Katrina to some degree. Probably not much, but I'm fairly positive the black picture refers to the Dark Master.

I believe you can ASK about the "dark master" when you're picking a sponsor.

I meant saying "Katrina". The game doesn't even recognize that word. But that wouldn't make sense because Katrina is portrayed as a servant girl who knows some magic. Although you could say Zara so I wondered how skilled you had to be to be a sponsor? But who would know to type in Katrina's name if you've just played QFG1 and 2? I know the one about the dark master and you're told to pick someone else.

I don't think it recognized dark master either, since your hero doesn't know about that subject at that point in the game.

QFG seems to have a contradiction of terms with QFG4. For example, Ad Avis mentions the "Dark One" in his prophecy reading at the Forbidden City, however he's clearly referring to Iblis, and not Avoozl (who is also known as the Dark One in QFG4).

My hunch is that perhaps the Coles were playing with the notion that the "Dark One" concept from QFG2 could be carried over to QFG4. But when QFG3 got slotted in there unexpectedly, they probably kept the same term but developed the idea more until it turned into something else. Could you imagine Iblis in QFG4 -- it would just be like a repeat of QFG2 again.  On the other hand, the identical terms could just be a confusing coincidence. It seems obvious, even from QFG2's ending that QFG4 was intended to be about Vampires (Ad Avis having fangs in his final appearance).

Additionally, at the end of the original QFG2, Ad Avis never calls out to his master to save him, and the additional dialogue for this was only added in QFG3's intro. It seems to hint that the skeleton concept for both the Dark One and the Dark Master were hinted at in QFG2, but their exact identities were probably not written and fleshed-out at least until QFG3 stared development. This seems to be why Ad Avis appears in the moon at the end, but neither Katrina nor Avoozl do.

Hmm, so did you guys retcon QFG2's ending to match QFG3?

I guess that'll be another exciting thing for us to find out when it's released.

Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:(snip)

I can't speak to the intentions of the developers -- I never associated Ad Avis with the moon-turned-vampire at the end of the QFG2 credits; I just thought that was a hint of the nature of the next game in the series, the same way the change in the music at the end of the credits in QFG1 hinted at the nature of the setting in QFG2 -- I always assumed the "Dark One" moniker that gets used so liberally was a case of poetic license in that case.

Consider the uses of the word "score", for instance.  "Four score and seven years ago..." is a fairly specific usage -- with a "score" being the literal interpretation of "twenty" in this case -- but if used in verse (or, say, a prophecy) "score" could just as easily mean any significant number.

The QFG2 "Dark Ones" are being used one way (verse, prophecy... which is to say, ambiguously), while in QFG4, it's being used differently in referring to a race of creatures, or one such creature in specific.  

Same term, but two different contexts, and therefore two (potentially, at least) different meanings.  

It works for me, at any rate.

Argh, they all have a bit of 'Dark One' in them.

For all you know Iblis, Avoozl and the Demon Lord are all the same creature... it is the Dragon!

Gronagor wrote:Argh, they all have a bit of 'Dark One' in them.

For all you know Iblis, Avoozl and the Demon Lord are all the same creature... it is the Dragon!

I agree for most part.Each quest for glory toke place in many different places and cultures so I think they all had different names for the same creature

And I think there's a certain bridge I happened to have for sale that you really, really want.

Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:QFG seems to have a contradiction of terms with QFG4. For example, Ad Avis mentions the "Dark One" in his prophecy reading at the Forbidden City, however he's clearly referring to Iblis, and not Avoozl (who is also known as the Dark One in QFG4).

I'd have to disagree with this. It's not really a contradiction of terms. "The Dark One" is pretty vague. While Avoozl and Iblis are their names, "The Dark One" is a descriptive title. Many people throughout history, for instance, have had "the Wise" or "the Great" tacked on to their name, and if you called someone "The Wise One" it doesn't mean they are the only one that will ever have that title. Furthermore, the Coles seemed intent on doing a different mythology with each game they made, so I doubt they would reuse a djinn for a Transylvanian setting.

Hmmm... I just recalled that Mayzun also refers to Ad Avis as 'The Dark One' in the harem at the end of QFG2, so you're probably correct that it's more of a descriptive term.

The point I was trying to make was simply that I don't think they had the plot and characters of QFG4 developed very far during the development of QFG2. Shadows of Darkness ended up being released 3 years after Trial by Fire, and a LOT can change in 3 years. I'd assume that the finer details of QFG4 were being worked out simultaneously alongside QFG3's development.

Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:Hmmm... I just recalled that Mayzun also refers to Ad Avis as 'The Dark One' in the harem at the end of QFG2, so you're probably correct that it's more of a descriptive term.

The point I was trying to make was simply that I don't think they had the plot and characters of QFG4 developed very far during the development of QFG2. Shadows of Darkness ended up being released 3 years after Trial by Fire, and a LOT can change in 3 years. I'd assume that the finer details of QFG4 were being worked out simultaneously alongside QFG3's development.

Firstly, I just want to say Hi! I've been a long-time lurker of AGD forums and products, proudly patronize Al Emmo and will buy any Himalaya product for friends and family, and I am thrilled that you guys exist; it's such a great blast from the past.

To the topic: While they may have not had a fully-fleshed out "Shadows of Darkness" storyline, the Coles have said on several occasions, if I am not mistaken, that they already had outlined the Hero going to Mordavia as the original QFG3, with the final journey to Silmaria (or the hero's ascension as a "King") slotted for QFG4, because they had originally intended for their series to be a metaphor for the Four Classical Elements (Water, Fire, Earth, and Air, respectively). Inserting the adventure in Tarna for QFG3 really caused them to, more or less, conjure up an entire storyline out of thin air for their intended third episode.

So, wouldn't the notion of the "Dark One" and "Dark Master" (Katrina) already have been, more or less, sketched in by the time that the dark painting on the walls of W.I.T. is visible for the hero in QFG2?

Heh. If you ask me, their original plan was to have the 'Dark Master' as the main villian in the game. It was only after they started developing Katrina that they decided NOT to have her in that role... they probably realized what a big fan-base the character would have.

The term "Dark One" in Suleiman's prophecy almost certainly refers to Ad Avis himself. I'd explain why, but spoiler tags aren't working. :P Basically, the prophecy would make no sense if "Dark One" was referring to Avoozl, Katrina, or even Iblis, whereas it makes perfect sense, in light of the endgame's events, if referring to Ad Avis.

Kinda makes one wonder what Quest For Glory 3: Shadows of Darkness would have been. It might not have been very much like Quest For Glory 4 at all.

Bt

4 with the play style of 3 would have been kinda cool actually but I still like the unique charm of Wages... I still have to beat Wages actually... and SoD for that matter.

... and you call yourself a fan. Then again, so do I and yet I gave up on 5 because I didn't care for it. I really should give it another chance...

This thread has got me thinking: What WOULD "Quest For Glory 3: Shadows of Darkness" have been like if we'd skipped Wages of War completely.... how would the Hero have gotten to Mordavia? Would it have been Mordavia? Would it have been about Katrina? Hmmm......

Bt

Oh, I just recalled something else about why I thought there may have been a carry-over of ideas from QFG2 to QFG4.

In QFG2's prophecy, it talks about Iblis rising unconfined and bringing eternal night to the land of Shapeir. That's what made me think that perhaps this concept was carried over to QFG4 and used for Avoozl instead, which is more appropriate Vampire setting.

In QFG2, Ad Avis also mentions that he has served the Dark Master for seventy years in the Forbidden City, but he doesn't really elaborate any further on who exactly the Dark Master is nor what serving this entity constitutes on his part. This ambiguity is just another reason why I believe the idea wasn't fleshed out at all in QFG2's development.