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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:40 pm 
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BT sometimes simply fails to work. Not really a reliable way to go. if bandwidth is the main issue i think the only reasonable choice is a server. If i still had mine id definitely donate it, but unfortunately i only do work on other peoples servers. What i would suggest is if supporters would each donate a small amount and that could work for a while. :P

A far fetched alternative could be if enough people made mirrors for the downloads with apache. But everyone hates apache right? :)


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:24 pm 
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I love these misconceptions. Torrents work. They are quite fast, just don't be stingy and contribute the bandwidth you take back to the collective. I have 10 megabit downstream pipe. A direct download over ftp/http has never saturated it. I have had numerous downloads over bittorrent saturate that pipe over the years. I leave my server seeding various torrents 24/7. Using utorrent, I have fine grained control over how much bandwidth bittorrent is allowed to occupy - leaving me free to do whatever else I want while it is running.

Bottom line: Other than Vivendi being dicks, there isn't any reason not to have both direct downloads and a torrent setup as download options. I'd probably seed this thing for the next year once a torrent does go up (which eventually we will see, make no mistake).


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:14 am 
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I don't think I'd call them "dicks," as they ARE letting AGDI remake the material on which they hold a copyright. If they were dicks, they'd lock the copyright down and wouldn't let this happen at all!


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:15 am 
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darkgamorck wrote:
Bottom line: Other than Vivendi being dicks, there isn't any reason not to have both direct downloads and a torrent setup as download options. I'd probably seed this thing for the next year once a torrent does go up (which eventually we will see, make no mistake).

this has been said over and over (and over), but it's not just about Vivendi... if QfG2vga manages to see record-breaking download numbers (or, at least, respectable download numbers), these guys will have that to add to their resume... if it's impressive enough, perhaps that will be a major factor in acquiring funding for their next project.. torrent downloads of the game simply WON'T count toward that number.. assuming that their servers can sustain it, what is your problem with simply downloading it directly from the official site?


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:19 am 
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njspannaus wrote:
darkgamorck wrote:
Bottom line: Other than Vivendi being dicks, there isn't any reason not to have both direct downloads and a torrent setup as download options. I'd probably seed this thing for the next year once a torrent does go up (which eventually we will see, make no mistake).

this has been said over and over (and over), but it's not just about Vivendi... if QfG2vga manages to see record-breaking download numbers (or, at least, respectable download numbers), these guys will have that to add to their resume... if it's impressive enough, perhaps that will be a major factor in acquiring funding for their next project.. torrent downloads of the game simply WON'T count toward that number.. assuming that their servers can sustain it, what is your problem with simply downloading it directly from the official site?

I agree I dont see the point of even debating this

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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:24 am 
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Quote:
Bottom line: Other than Vivendi being dicks, there isn't any reason not to have both direct downloads and a torrent setup as download options. I'd probably seed this thing for the next year once a torrent does go up (which eventually we will see, make no mistake).


In other words, give someone an inch and they'll take a mile. Why can't people simply respect the fact that, Vivendi aside, we don't want to distribute this game via torrent? Almost everything about bit-torrent distribution will only have a negative effect on us, and will weaken the case we've been trying to build for supporting adventure games for the last 8 years. Is that what you want? We need fans to support the site and support our goal by downloading the game from our own site. *Sigh* Even when a game's free, that's not enough. Some people will still manage to find a way to inconvenience you so that they can best serve themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:41 am 
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Ok. I tried to keep out of this discussion, because I keep on losing my temper.

1. VU doesn't want them to use it.
2. BitTorrent is junk anyways
3. AGDI wants to have stats all in one place.

Why do they want the stats?

1. Show VU and the gaming world that there is still life in Adventure gaming
2. Show VU that Quest for Glory still have a major following

Why?

1. Perhaps convince VU to either continue the series (via AGDI or anyone else)



So tell me, who would be the 'dick' when those stats don't show what it should have?
Obviously the idiots who put it on BitTorrent!


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:30 am 
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Ultimatley, people who put the game on BitTorrent are only hurting AGDI and that's no way to say thanks for a free game.


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:37 pm 
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EZ wrote:
Quote:
Yes it is centralized

For the record, no, BitTorrent is NOT centralized. All major clients support DHT, which allows peers to announce other peers. This means that the majority of BitTorrent users can continue to operate without trackers. The trackers are a convenience that allow their webmasters to earn money. The smaller ones also serve as communities. But eliminating trackers does not in any way eliminate BitTorrent.


This interested me and I looked it up, sure enough it was featured in a beta version of a certain bt client. However from what I read the DHT exchange isn't encrypted yet. I will say that while bit torrent technology does continue to get better, it's ties to illegal content are always going to steer companies away from using it as a distribution. Also the networking aspect of it all tends to drive away the average joe user, as mentioned before. Some people are tech savvy, some are not. I would seriously not recommend bt for those who are not :P

darkgamorck wrote:
I love these misconceptions. Torrents work. They are quite fast, just don't be stingy and contribute the bandwidth you take back to the collective. I have 10 megabit downstream pipe. A direct download over ftp/http has never saturated it. I have had numerous downloads over bittorrent saturate that pipe over the years. I leave my server seeding various torrents 24/7. Using utorrent, I have fine grained control over how much bandwidth bittorrent is allowed to occupy - leaving me free to do whatever else I want while it is running.

Bottom line: Other than Vivendi being dicks, there isn't any reason not to have both direct downloads and a torrent setup as download options. I'd probably seed this thing for the next year once a torrent does go up (which eventually we will see, make no mistake).


I don't think anyone has questioned weither or not torrents work, for power users at least. I don't think comparing a single download via ftp or http to bt is a good comparison either. You could easily max out 10Mb if you downloaded a few simultaneously. And again you can't expect the average user to understand how to accomplish alot of what you have said. Do you honestly think that most people understand how to manage bandwidth to min/max it? Most ISP's nowadays limit the upstream dramatically as well, which has very adverse effects on torrent use. There are many reasons why AGDI does not want to use torrents. I do not see why everyone is calling it a misconception so much. Because of the license agreement AGDI has, any distribution through bit torrent primary or alternative, is illegal. Where is the misconception in that statement? :|


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:03 pm 
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The Master of All Things Musical
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As I recall, this thread was not started to convince AGDI to put the game on torrent or even to "be ok with it." He just wanted to clear the facts about torrents. Which he's done now. So this thread should be over.

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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:21 pm 
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MusicallyInspired wrote:
As I recall, this thread was not started to convince AGDI to put the game on torrent or even to "be ok with it." He just wanted to clear the facts about torrents. Which he's done now. So this thread should be over.


Yeah, I suppose the thread did get derailed quite a bit. I've tried to state the pros and cons unbiasedly to the best of my ability, but it's gotten a little redundant as well as a tad heated in discussion. I honestly don't know what to say when people openly admit they will probably distribute it through BT regardless of the fact it will hurt the devs. That's another huge downside to the BT community, the mentality of it all. They just don't care about respecting an author's wishes.

But I for one am going to stay clear of this thread for now, I hope everyone chills out a little. The game is going to be great, we should all stop worrying about "what if"'s. It will make it to your hard drive eventually, trust me :p


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:27 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Quote:
Bottom line: Other than Vivendi being dicks, there isn't any reason not to have both direct downloads and a torrent setup as download options. I'd probably seed this thing for the next year once a torrent does go up (which eventually we will see, make no mistake).


In other words, give someone an inch and they'll take a mile. Why can't people simply respect the fact that, Vivendi aside, we don't want to distribute this game via torrent? Almost everything about bit-torrent distribution will only have a negative effect on us, and will weaken the case we've been trying to build for supporting adventure games for the last 8 years. Is that what you want? We need fans to support the site and support our goal by downloading the game from our own site. *Sigh* Even when a game's free, that's not enough. Some people will still manage to find a way to inconvenience you so that they can best serve themselves.

Anonymous Game Creator 2 is right and so is MI thread done. I however have a question why is it with qfg closer this community is less of a family and filled with nonsense posts flamings rants and ungreatful criticisms?

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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Simple. Regulars that had the patience to stay with the forums over the years have become more familiar with one another and gained various degrees of respect. Once people are used to one another they are less defensive and in turn people are less aggressive. Once it became known the game was due out soon, a horde of forum newbies began to gather (myself included) which brings more unfamiliarity. People tend to be more defensive or aggressive with things they don't know or are not used to regularly, including other people. Human nature.


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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:06 pm 
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I vote for a thread lock and a ban on all torrent discussion henceforth. Everything that can be said has been said anyhow.

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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:07 pm 
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While I don't neccesarily agree with either standpoint fully, fact is that AGDI doesn't want to see it happen. End of story, I would think. Now let's all concentrate on moving on with our lives, shall we?

edit: Why, you beat me to it MI.

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 Post subject: Re: I have to say it – misconceptions about torrent.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Erpy lock please :)

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