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 Post subject: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:08 am 
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First of all i would like to thank all the Agdi team for creating the remakes of the tiltles we love for free and i must say i love you for that really, and all i can say that May God bless you with success regarding your game making career.
You Know that we all love Quest for Glory series And as you have mentioned before that you can use your remakes to market your games .So is it possible for you to create a title like Quest for glory 6 under a different name and then give at as a free game along with any of your own commercial game. as you are doing with the poster. In that way we all would have a chance to continue playing the series and you can market your commercial game and can make good money also.I'm saying this because i know if anyone can create a game similar to Quest for glory 6 , its only you guys , only you are capable of doing this as you have quite excellent experience regarding making a game like quest for glory. If you are worried about copyright , you can change the title as others (e.g Hero6). and Vivendi can't claim on you as you won't charge for the game it would be free with any of your commercial game.

LOVE you AGDI


It's just a suggestion please don't mind if i've asked anything stupid that has been asked before.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:39 am 
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I agree that a Quest for Glory-type game should be made by AGDI, but I disagree regarding its distribution. I don't see AGDI doing any more remakes after QFG2, and I don't think they should. They've given so much to the adventure genre and community, and it's time they deserve to get something back. They should create another original game (and I think they've been planning on it, actually)... And it would be AMAZING if it really were in the style of Quest for Glory, though more originally created by the Himalaya group.

I'm definitely excited about the remake, and I'm excited to see what's next for the developers. It's a great time for the adventure community, thanks to AGDI, so THANK YOU! :D

Oh, and I finally ordered my copy of Al Emmo the other day, I'm anxiously awaiting it!


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:50 am 
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benjipenguin wrote:
I agree that a Quest for Glory-type game should be made by AGDI, but I disagree regarding its distribution. I don't see AGDI doing any more remakes after QFG2, and I don't think they should. They've given so much to the adventure genre and community, and it's time they deserve to get something back. They should create another original game (and I think they've been planning on it, actually)... And it would be AMAZING if it really were in the style of Quest for Glory, though more originally created by the Himalaya group.

I'm definitely excited about the remake, and I'm excited to see what's next for the developers. It's a great time for the adventure community, thanks to AGDI, so THANK YOU! :D

Oh, and I finally ordered my copy of Al Emmo the other day, I'm anxiously awaiting it!


I understand what you said but they can't directly sell the game thats why i said to give it for free along with any of their commercial project.....


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:36 am 
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Tehseen wrote:
benjipenguin wrote:
I agree that a Quest for Glory-type game should be made by AGDI, but I disagree regarding its distribution. I don't see AGDI doing any more remakes after QFG2, and I don't think they should. They've given so much to the adventure genre and community, and it's time they deserve to get something back. They should create another original game (and I think they've been planning on it, actually)... And it would be AMAZING if it really were in the style of Quest for Glory, though more originally created by the Himalaya group.

I'm definitely excited about the remake, and I'm excited to see what's next for the developers. It's a great time for the adventure community, thanks to AGDI, so THANK YOU! :D

Oh, and I finally ordered my copy of Al Emmo the other day, I'm anxiously awaiting it!


I understand what you said but they can't directly sell the game thats why i said to give it for free along with any of their commercial project.....


Whether or not a particular derivative of a certain game is free or not has little to no bearing on whether AGDI could make that derivative. Vivendi owns the rights not only to the name but also to the game's likeness. I mean if you want AGDI to come up with something similar to QfG where as we have an adventure game that also encompassed RPG elements great, but do not expect your QfG 5 hero to be imported into this game. Nor can you expect the Gloriana world. The only way you would be able to do that is if you were to convince Vivendi to license this product to ya. I doubt it, SQ 7 team came up with a very thought out business plan but Vivendi did not budge. The only way you were going to see SQ 7 is if Vivendi was to own all rights in the software, no ifs, no buts. This is the very same license under which the new KQ is coming out. If Vivendi felt like it, they could can the new KQ for all eternity never to see the light of day and there is nothing the KQ team's developers could do it about.

And tbh, creating even something similar could bring the legal team out of the woodwork. I can assure you, eating legal fees is not fun. A modest lawyer will charge $ 125/hr. Modest, considering you will be looking down a barrel of suit that could shut AGDI down you would want to see someone more experienced who is likely to charge in upwards of $ 500/hr. Thats not top of the line but pretty darn good attorney. In other words, why risk it?


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:21 am 
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but they are allowed to use their free games to market their commercial projects..............


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:48 am 
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I don't think Vivendi would do anything if you created a game in the likeness of Quest for Glory. It's too much of a grey area. Ken Williams registered a patent for "graphic adventure game" and yet many companies other than Sierra On-Line created graphic adventures when the genre was at its height. Some companies (like Access software) even had a pseudo Sierra interface.

Any view to making an 'official' Quest for Glory game (or any other Sierra 'Quest' game, for that matter) would indeed need to be taken up with Vivendi and produced as a commercial project. Don't expect them to want to fund it either. It would be a great dream to fulfill, particularly getting old Sierra employees like Lori and Corey Cole heavily involved with the story and development, but Vivendi's not going to foot the bill for something like that. Even if they would consider such a proposal (which seems doubtful), they'd likely be more receptive if the developer agreed to fully fund the project themselves. That way, it would be a totally risk-free venture for Vivendi to make a profit from. Not a big profit, though. It's no secret to them that Adventure Games aren't top sellers these days; and I think that if they'd ever agree to let such a project go forward, it could only be under conditions where they take no risk of losing anything.

We're also talking about needing a LOT of money to do something like that. Money to pay employees a regular salary and to put into development of the game itself. Then you'd have to cross your fingers and hope to make it all back instead of having freeloaders stealing it off bit-torrent. Risky business, indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:57 am 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Some companies (like Access software) even had a pseudo Sierra interface.


Accolade made an adventure engine that was almost identical to the SCI0 interpreter for their games Les Manley 1: Search for the King and Altered Destiny that they were sued by Sierra for being so similar. I can't remember if they succeeded or not. Les Manley 2: Lost in LA was also quite similar to the SCI1/SCI1.1 interpreter.

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:45 am 
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heh, I wasn't even thinking similar as in interface, title, or character.. I was just thinking similar as in feeling and theme. Especially to Quest for Glory 4, or 5, those were incredible games, but 4 was buggy, and both were a little too rushed and seemed a little too incomplete... To the AGDs, you can do amazing things, you've already proved that, and you will be successful, just follow your dreams. We'll (well, most of us) be happy in the end :D


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 am 
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"Al Emmo" showed that the team can develop their own original worlds for adventuring. Rather than making more fan-games (next one maybe out in 2016?), I would prefer them to make commercial games in that good old adventuring spirit. There should be a market for that, I hope!

"Al Emmo" was a very enjoyable game (there was even planned a sequel, according to a post somewhere else on these forums), and the best way to motivate the team to make more games, is to order a copy of that game!


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
We're also talking about needing a LOT of money to do something like that. Money to pay employees a regular salary and to put into development of the game itself. Then you'd have to cross your fingers and hope to make it all back instead of having freeloaders stealing it off bit-torrent. Risky business, indeed.



You can't judge from the sales of Al emmo that whether you next tiltle could be able to get the money or not , Al emmo couldnt do great business because people doesnt know you as they know Sierra And Lucas Arts etc . You guys couldnt get much money not because some people pirated your game but just lack of publicity.Becuase you know that you guys are not the only one facing problems regarding piracy, even bigger companies face the same problem but it dint effect their sales , they do make money from their games . May be your next title could make you some good money in return , hope for the best. And one more thing You guys are expecting so much from your games , its true that your games are good , excellent indeed. but this is just your beginning. You cant get what you want just in the beginning , you guys tell us to be patient , why? because you know in the end we are gonna be happy because we are gonna get the game of quality beyond our expectation . same goes for you guys , dont lose your hope , its just the beginning of something bigger gonna happen .May God Bless YOu with Success. LOVE YOU AGDI


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:34 pm 
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I'd also argue that Al Emmo lacked broad appeal (the old West has historically shown itself to be an unpopular adventure game setting) and a charismatic lead character, and that these factors, along with the limited resolution of the graphics and production values that, whilst better than amature games, were not quite up to the accepted standard for modern adventure games, contributed to the game's lack of financial success. However, would a commercial "definately not a Quest for Glory game - wink, wink" game prove to be more popular? I'm not sure. Perhaps. I wouldn't want to stake my financial future on such a supposition.

Having said all that, I'd love to see something Quest for Glory-ish from Himalaya Studios. Really. But something far smaller and less ambitious - but with higher production values than Al Emmo - would probably be the best path to take.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:36 pm 
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I don't know about lack of graphics, the backgrounds were beautiful!


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Sorry, I wasn't too clear - you're right about the background art being quite lovely. What I meant to say is that the dated (ie. low) resolution compromised the quality of the visuals to a degree that is probably unacceptable to many modern gamers (ie. potential customers). This is fine for the old games that we know and love, because our nostalgia helps us to overlook their "datedness". This doesn't hold true for modern commercial games, though, because we come to them fresh and free of warm, nostalgic memories. This is one of Al Emmo's problems.

It's worth remembering that all the games from yesteryear that we are fond of used technology to the best of their ability. Their visual fidelity was current for the time they were released. Don't most 2d point'n'click adventure games run in 1024x768 these days?

Really, I think that all of Al Emmo's "flaws" are due to commercial inexperience - the developers didn't adequately take into account the market or current trends when they decided on their concept and approach. They certainly seem to possess the talent, creativity, intelligence, and integrity to create something rather special in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:59 pm 
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Al Emmo didn't do too bad financially; it actually did much better than we expected considering that we ended up having to do all the PR and marketing ourselves. The reason it didn't do as well as expected on a larger scale was because a publisher screwed us over at the last minute on a deal that would have placed the game on store shelves in North America and several other territories. Not once, but twice (same publisher, both times). We needed that deal to push us over the break-even point so that all royalties (plus our own sales from the Himalaya store) would have been considered profit. Let's face it, a game really needs to be on store shelves these days in order to pull decent numbers. The Internet is too diverse a marketplace. You need to have shelf presence in brick & mortar stores in order to have your product noticed by large numbers of people outside of the regular fanbase.

Piracy was a large factor too. Thousands more people have downloaded the game than those who bought it. With no retail presence this is a big deal, as the sales lost to piracy aren't being made up for like other commercial titles readily available on store shelves. That's why piracy affects smaller start-ups to an even greater extent than it affects large companies who can afford to absorb some of the losses.

I'd agree that the general western setting doesn't have too wide of an appeal, but keep in mind we weren't attempting to do the next-latest-and-greatest game with our first Himalaya release. I think that's the most common misconception that people have -- unrealistic expectations of our capabilities in an environment where we were still learning the ropes. I personally am proud of the quality of the game. I think it turned out better than I expected, but yes, I'm aware of the shortcomings too. Most were due to lack of funding and the need to compromise to actually finish the game. We were also testing the waters with a simpler style adventure game.

Many people praised KQ1VGA's graphics as "better than Sierra" and "Something they would pay full-price for" when we first released the remake. However, looking KQ1VGA's graphics now, they are just horrid. Ripped background textures from other Sierra games. Misaligned textures, skewed to fit into different shapes. Really gaudy stuff. The dialogue pictures were not very polished either. Al Emmo's background artwork on the other hand was entirely hand-painted in acrylics, just like the old Sierra games were. So the production values of the game are much higher than anything we've ever released at AGDI. Of course, on such a limited budget, we can never match the production values of companies who have tens of thousands of dollars to spend, so fans still need to have reasonable expectations of what we're able to achieve.

As far as resolution is concerned, I think this matters most to publishers if you're going to place the game on store shelves. It would have applied to us to some extent, had the game been published. However, since it didn't, I don't think resolution was a huge issue, as most people already knew our AGDI games as low-res titles and if anything, Al Emmo was a step up from that (4 times as much detail). I firmly believe one could still make a nice profit from creating 320x200 adventure games to cater for the niche market that exists for the old-school crowd. The biggest problem is that the more you increase the resolution of an adventure game, the more it loses the classic touch. This is a delicate balancing act for us, because we're primarily trying to cater for the niche market - the majority of old-school players whom prefer the lower resolution charm and the implications of text box messages. So we're caught in between pleasing a publisher and pleasing our fanbase. Also, when we first started developing Al Emmo at the beginning of 2003, 640x400 would have been totally acceptable. But due to a tight budget and delays, the game wasn't released until 2006, three years later. Having the funding to finish a game quickly is a key factor in being able to stay on top of current trends. There's also the matter of the expense of putting the game on multiple CDs to consider. Higher-res artwork requires more CDs, which costs more money. Al Emmo just barely fit onto a single CD with it's 640x400 resolution graphics. There are a lot of things to consider.

The game was very much a learning process for us, and there are many things that we'll do differently next time we create a commercial game. Though, I firmly believe you must make mistakes in order to learn from them, as that first-hand experience teaches you how to go about things differently the next time.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:39 pm 
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Quote:

Accolade made an adventure engine that was almost identical to the SCI0 interpreter for their games Les Manley 1: Search for the King and Altered Destiny that they were sued by Sierra for being so similar. I can't remember if they succeeded or not. Les Manley 2: Lost in LA was also quite similar to the SCI1/SCI1.1 interpreter.


I don't know if they won or not. But I do know that, in regards to the Les Manley series, Al Lowe complained about it, saying that Les Manley was just a cheap rip-off of Leisure Suit Larry. The game play does have some wacky elements to it that would make it draw parallels to a Larry game, and there were even TWO references to Sierra within the game! If you typed in a swear word, Les Manley says 'you must be confusing him for the other guy' a balatent reference to LSL, while when you go into the gypsy's tent in the game, Graham's face apears for a moment before a 'oops, wrong guy' text or something appears and then it's replaced.

Also the game felt like, and played like, a second-rate Sierra clone. It isn't too bad, actually, but it's definately on the save level as Sierra.

Oh, and I should mention that in 1990, over 95 adventure game titles were released! It was a popular genre at the time.

Till next time stay cool 8))


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:20 pm 
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You should totally work with Yahtzee to bring us a VGA remake of 5 Days a Stranger. THAT would be amazing on soooooo many levels.

OK, I kid, I kid, maybe some kind of samurai fantasy adventure... hmm... that would make an awesome game... I THOUGHT OF IT FIRST!


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:01 pm 
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some kind of samurai fantasy adventure

Thst would be fun

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Mr. Alsheid wrote:
You should totally work with Yahtzee...

Now THAT'S a recipe for disaster. :lol

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:06 pm 
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I ask this purely out of interest, so forgive me for being so bold.
But how many copies (thereabouts) have you sold of Al Emmo?

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Solarkid wrote:
I ask this purely out of interest, so forgive me for being so bold.
But how many copies (thereabouts) have you sold of Al Emmo?

Dave
These things ought not to be asked. In public, at least. 8o

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Solarkid wrote:
I ask this purely out of interest, so forgive me for being so bold.
But how many copies (thereabouts) have you sold of Al Emmo?

Dave


If you bought a copy it gives an order number which I wonder is related to how many copies were sold. I picked up the non-collectors edition (after the qg2vga release started to look imminent but before they announced the poster. DOH!) and the number was around 350. No idea if that means anything though, just an observation.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:09 am 
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I don't think we have an exact tally since many of the sales have been for online downloads as well as the translated German and Russian versions (which we don't have full sales statistic for). But that aside, I don't believe we'll be making the sales figures public.

I should also mention that the 'units left in stock' on the store website is inaccurate since the store doesn't keep track of them properly. It's not a reflection of how many are really remaining. There are less units in stock than the number displays, so I have now removed the 'units remaining' section from the product pages to avoid any confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI'S CAPABILITIES
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Fair enough, it was a long shot but i was just interested on how well you guys were doing with the game.

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