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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:16 pm 
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JustLuke32 wrote:
Also: I think that you're seriously short-changing African cultures. They are rich and diverse. As far as people knowing little about asian cultures goes, you'd be surprised how little asian cultures know about the west too. Generally speaking, people in most cultures are fairly culturally ignorant - and this is understandable.


Agreed. I wouldn't trust asians to make a game in a western setting. Fantasy or not.
But JL32, if you think you're so talented, go ahead! I would love to play an asian QfG game.

And you're seriously over-rating Africa. :lol


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:55 pm 
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I don't think that I'm that talented. :)


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Quote:
I wouldn't trust asians to make a game in a western setting.


Shigeru Miyamoto has made an empire out of that! :D Many blockbuster game titles (Mario, Zelda, Silent Hill, etc) that were made in Japan have western settings.


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:13 pm 
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JustLuke32 wrote:
I don't think that I'm that talented. :)


You are extremely talented. That environmental rendering is really just beautiful.

Looking forward to more! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Shigeru Miyamoto has made an empire out of that! :D Many blockbuster game titles (Mario, Zelda, Silent Hill, etc) that were made in Japan have western settings.


And he never went to a western country? :)

I'm sorry I'm expressing myself wrongly here. :) I'm talking about a fanproject.

(And before I'm being corrected here as well, I'm talking about people actually living in Asia as asians. I should probably be saying asian citizens, people living in the US being US citizens, people living in Africa being african citizens etc etc.)

When, for example, they made the movie Prince of Egypt, they took the entire cast for a tour through egypt to experience every little detail. Cool.

Yeah, but most fans here can't do that. Although it would be cool to actually do it!

But I'm sticking to my point. I've had 3 people from Asia with quite a bit of knowledge about their own and the rest of Asia's culture over at Hero6 (and a few people who loved the culture and made an effort to learn about it)... in the end, it was their suggestions to cut it from the game.

If anyone think they can do it, PLEASE go ahead! I'm just warning you... it isn't as simple as you think it is. (There's been a number of people on this very forum who suggested they're starting a QfG game in an asian setting... I haven't seen a single piece from these people)


Eriq, I know I still owe you an african baby. Though you'd probably not believe me, I've searched most corners of SA for the specific one I'm looking for... and I'm not giving up.


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:15 am 
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dungeonsofdorks wrote:
Eh, I'm not a fan of the idea of an oriental hero, myself. It bores me and it seems unnecessary. There's enough oriental fanboy/girlishness going on these days anyhow.


you have just made a enemy my friend

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:58 am 
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AsianMusicGuy wrote:
dungeonsofdorks wrote:
Eh, I'm not a fan of the idea of an oriental hero, myself. It bores me and it seems unnecessary. There's enough oriental fanboy/girlishness going on these days anyhow.


you have just made a enemy my friend


If I had to guess, judging from his posts around the forums, that seems to be his goal.


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:00 am 
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Something tells me he's not worried.

And I understand what he means about Asian-Fanboyism. It's a sticky line to tread. However, I think JustLuke has a good angle on it all. I really like the designs.

DoD means well, trust me. He's coming from a good place.


Bt

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:17 am 
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Although it's easy for anyone from any cultural background to have misconceptions of other cultures (particularly if they don't have an in-depth knowledge of the culture they are misunderstanding), I think that an all-encompassing knowledge of asian culture wouldn't be a pre-requisite to make a QFG-like game in an oriental setting.

Of course, sensitivity would be important no matter where you (you in the general sense) intend to set the game world.

I happen to live in Japan at the moment, but even before I came here I had read a lot of asian mythology, particularly Chinese and Japanese.

I think a thorough LOVE of a particular mythology is important if you are intending to base a game world in that setting. Not that I am personally... oh, and by "love" I mean a real passionate interest.

If you consider Shapeir, for example, I think it's quite obvious how much the Coles loved both The Arabian Nights and other often-associated tales such as Sindbad the Sailor, Ala al Din and the magic lamp and the tale of Ali Baba, etc.

I don't look at Shapeir as being a comprehensive representation of any real-life middle-eastern culture. In fact, I think that the Coles went out of their way to make Shapeir have the "flavour" of the Arabian Nights, but beyond that it is very obviously a creation of their own.

In fact, in my opinion, every setting in every QFG game is more about "flavour" than "reality".

As for knowledge of the daily life in any particular culture... we don't really see much of the daily life of the citizens of any of the settings in the QFG games, do we? I mean, really see....

Most of it is implied via dialogue... isn't it? (people walking around the streets and markets aside...)

Other aspects we see are pretty universal... the tavern in QFG1, for example... any drinking establishment in any culture that allows such places wouldn't be out of place having a drunk slouched in a corner, a barkeep and some people playing some kind of game, be it go fish or mahjong.

The same with markets - people walking around and buying stuff. It's just "what" they are buying that usually changes from culture to culture... for example, in an asian setting maybe that centaur's daughter (again, from QFG1) would be selling dim sum or Chinese vegetables...??

I'm probably rambling now... I'm really sorry about that... but I think that as far as the daily life stuff, if it's done with sincerity and sensitivity, people are pretty much people... religious and political beliefs aside.

But, then, that is another whole kettle of fish I don't wanna go into here.


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:29 am 
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Ikkyu Sojun wrote:
Although it's easy for anyone from any cultural background to have misconceptions of other cultures (particularly if they don't have an in-depth knowledge of the culture they are misunderstanding), I think that an all-encompassing knowledge of asian culture wouldn't be a pre-requisite to make a QFG-like game in an oriental setting.

Of course, sensitivity would be important no matter where you (you in the general sense) intend to set the game world.

I happen to live in Japan at the moment, but even before I came here I had read a lot of asian mythology, particularly Chinese and Japanese.

I think a thorough LOVE of a particular mythology is important if you are intending to base a game world in that setting. Not that I am personally... oh, and by "love" I mean a real passionate interest.

If you consider Shapeir, for example, I think it's quite obvious how much the Coles loved both The Arabian Nights and other often-associated tales such as Sindbad the Sailor, Ala al Din and the magic lamp and the tale of Ali Baba, etc.

I don't look at Shapeir as being a comprehensive representation of any real-life middle-eastern culture. In fact, I think that the Coles went out of their way to make Shapeir have the "flavour" of the Arabian Nights, but beyond that it is very obviously a creation of their own.

In fact, in my opinion, every setting in every QFG game is more about "flavour" than "reality".

As for knowledge of the daily life in any particular culture... we don't really see much of the daily life of the citizens of any of the settings in the QFG games, do we? I mean, really see....

Most of it is implied via dialogue... isn't it? (people walking around the streets and markets aside...)

Other aspects we see are pretty universal... the tavern in QFG1, for example... any drinking establishment in any culture that allows such places wouldn't be out of place having a drunk slouched in a corner, a barkeep and some people playing some kind of game, be it go fish or mahjong.

The same with markets - people walking around and buying stuff. It's just "what" they are buying that usually changes from culture to culture... for example, in an asian setting maybe that centaur's daughter (again, from QFG1) would be selling dim sum or Chinese vegetables...??

I'm probably rambling now... I'm really sorry about that... but I think that as far as the daily life stuff, if it's done with sincerity and sensitivity, people are pretty much people... religious and political beliefs aside.

But, then, that is another whole kettle of fish I don't wanna go into here.

well put

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:50 am 
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Thanks, BT. Apparently words cause overreactions! My mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:48 am 
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Blackthorne519 wrote:
He's coming from a good place.


The US? Hmmm...

:lol


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:25 am 
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dungeonsofdorks wrote:
... Apparently words cause overreactions! ...
Not with me they didn't. You do seem to be somewhat blunt, but your opinions are reasonable. And I'll take "blunt" over "sycophantic" every time. Besides, I am untterly unable to take personal offence at anything written on internet forums. It's like a superpower!


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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Gronagor wrote:
Blackthorne519 wrote:
He's coming from a good place.


The US? Hmmm...

:lol


KNEESLAPPER!

Heh. No, I mean he can seem abrasive, but he's honestly one of the most ferverent fans of Adventure Games (and creating Adventure Games) that I know. His tone can be misunderstood, and boy - do I know what THAT'S like.

Bt

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:07 pm 
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@ JustLuke32 - Yeah, I wasn't actually accusing YOU of being a fanboy. Just tired of the whole asian wannabe LOOK HOW COOL IT IS people to the point that anytime anything asian/oriental/what have you comes up, my brain immediately and firmly goes "meh." Haha. Like I said though, your stuff looks absolutely fantastic.

@asianmusicguy - "I'm shaking, I'm shaking"

@BT - Thanks dude.

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 Post subject: Re: My Quest for Glory (ish) art
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Blackthorne519 wrote:
KNEESLAPPER!


:evil

uhmm... uhmmm... EarthQuakeWatcher!!


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