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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:58 pm 
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I think I will make one more post regarding my views on the portraits and then let it rest. First, I fail to see how the portraits in the first Quest for Glory (VGA remake, I assume) are cartoony. They seem much closer to the style on QfG3 than 4 to me. No baseball-sized eyes there or downturned noses that reach mouth level. I do admit some of the characters in Shadows of Darkness are very cartoony, for example the Chief Thief looks like his eyeballs should be overlapping within his skull. At the same time, there are several very realistic-looking characters, such as Rusalka and Katrina. I would argue that the art is closer to realistic the more serious the character is. There is rhyme and reason here.

In Trial by Fire VGA the most realistic-looking portraits seem to be of those human characters who only show up in QfG3: Uhura and the sultan. Then there's Simba who looks pretty much photorealistic, albeit in low resolution. I may be contradicting myself here, but for me it is a very odd imbalance that side characters like that have such a different art style. And while this is probably a matter of personal taste, I still maintain the position that I find none of the female faces attractive, with the exception of Uhura.

Oh, and hi, LateBlt!


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:02 pm 
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The QFG2VGA Portraits are not bad. I agree, simba DOES look very realistic, and Ad Avis really does match the portrait in QFG3. Good going guys!

But some character portraits like Aziza and Ferrari are unrealistic.

PS: Hey Lateblt. It's etoileangelique324 from Youtube!


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:31 pm 
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Wow, this place is becoming celebrity central lately. Welcome to our neck of the woods, LateBlt.

Hehe, it's all good, I wasn't taking the video or your comments as being offensive. Sometimes I just tend to pick pickyness. :lol I've actually watched your playthroughs before, and found them to be entertaining, so I was more-or-less just curious as to how you'd view the remake if you got your hands on it. In truth, I can relate to the difference between playing a parser game and then moving onto to a Point and Click version of the same series. QFG3 seemed very jarring in that respect for me after having played QFG1 and QFG2 via parser. So perhaps that's what this remake initially felt like for you? I dunno.

At any rate, I hope you'll be able to play the full remake to the end to get an idea of an overall feel for it, if you haven't already. Being an SCI game, a Point and click remake was, of course, the logical step (following in Sierra's sequels), but we were always mindful that old-school players would like some familiarity in there too. After all, most of us on the dev team grew up in the 80's and 90's playing the parser versions. We added the text parser into the remake for Communication to try and assist with keeping some of the nostalgia intact, as well as icluding several other SCI features (like the TAB inventory screen menu) which Sierra's VGA remakes didn't have. In the end, it's hard to please everyone, but we did go to great efforts to attempt to satisfy both sides. It would have been much simpler (and 10 times faster) had we simply left the combo and parser modes out of the game all together, but we honestly did spend a lot of time adding those features trying to cater for old-school players as well. There's actually a lot of depth to the parser, many, many additional keywords that are not possible to access via the Point and Click menu can be entered. So the parser does have quite a bit of depth and, shall I say, mystery, to it! You might be surprised at some of the things characters can talk about, and some of the topics you can tell them.

Perhaps these nods to the SCI game are not readily apparent because of the shiny and deceptive new graphics, but if you were to play the full game with the Parser-Only system enabled then it should (at least somewhat) be reminiscent of the original.

Who knows... maybe we'll see a "Let's Play QFG2VGA parser-only-mode" one day. ;)

Crowley9 wrote:
First, I fail to see how the portraits in the first Quest for Glory (VGA remake, I assume) are cartoony. They seem much closer to the style on QfG3 than 4 to me


I'd agree that not all the dialogue portraits are totally consistent across the board, but that doesn't make them 'bad' on an individual basis. Everything else is pretty much just personal preference. QFG1VGA also had it's fair share of dialogue portrait inconsistencies in that colors from the palette often bled together (like on the Bartender, I think), or Schultz and Erasmus looking cartoony while Hilde and Zara didn't.

GloriousHeroine wrote:
But some character portraits like Aziza and Ferrari are unrealistic.


Ah, see, I personally think Aziza's portrait is one of the most best ones in the game! In fact, I specifically asked for that one to be redone because the old version looked unrefined. Simba's on the other hand, I really don't like that much because it does look too realistic. :eek I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder!


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:47 pm 
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I'm surprised so many are criticizing the portraits and forgetting that Britney and co probably spent hours of (uncompensated) time on them. If this was a commercial game I could understand giving all the criticism, but come on. This is a free game. Look through most of the AGS games for download today and you won't find a third of the dialog portraits even close to half as good looking as QFG2's are. I'm content in knowing that they're extremely well-detailed and of an excellent quality aesthetic-wise. Realistic or not, they look awesome. Period. And for anyone that feels the need to debate this with me, it's a free game. It doesn't matter one way or the other. It's not like you're not getting your money's worth. You didn't even pay for it! Again I say: it's ten times better than most any other free game out there.

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:56 pm 
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MusicallyInspired wrote:
I'm surprised so many are criticizing the portraits and forgetting that Britney and co probably spent hours of (uncompensated) time on them.

Ah, I never intended to give the impression I was criticizing the quality, only the choice of style. I do appreciate all the effort that has obviously been put into this, portraits included.

And I just have to mention how much I hate the purple mess that is Baba Yaga's head in QfG1VGA. :x


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:02 pm 
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I wasn't intending on criticizing the portraits. Most of them were well done, especially the heros XD.


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:08 am 
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http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/quest ... tId,95245/

Comparing the Katta in GfQ2 VGA to the ones in the QfG1 remake, no, they're not as realistic, but it's a much clearer visual style, which I TEND to prefer, and no offense intended, but I thought that KQ1 and 2 VGA could look a bit muddy at times, so I think QfG2 is a major improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:25 pm 
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On seeing Aziza's face for the first time last Saturday afternoon, my 4 and a half year old daughter said "Oh! She's so pretty!"

I've been playing the whole game through with her on my lap and frankly I'm taking her opinion more seriously than that of most adult game players. She loves the game. I started playing Sierra's adventure games when I was 8 years old and I my brother got 'Kings Quest 4.' Something is missing when crusty old adults play again and again through these games that were originally intended for children. I found myself laughing at Latebit's Youtube piece reviewing the new game.

Dude, you're a grown man dissecting this thing as though you were test-driving the new Honda Civic. It's a story and a game that was written for kids. Where is your spirit of adventure? This is a thing that Lori and Cory Cole wrote for kids. I was 11 years old when the first 'Hero's Quest' came out, and many of you were even younger. The idea that any 8 or 11 year old would give 2 centimes for whether it was a parser interface over 'point and click' is laughable.

Latebit's review reminded me of those ridiculous grown men and women who were collecting 'Beanie Babies' a few years ago. Praising some designs as if they were fine wines, dismissing others. My kids have been happy to rip off the tags and play with them in either event. Because at the end of the day, a kid's toy is a kid's toy and adults who try to approach it as something else just look silly.

I suggest that anyone who is trying to get as much as possible out of this game please sit down with someone under the age of 10 and play it through, because you'll get a lot more out of it with their perspective involved.



Crowley9 wrote:
And while this is probably a matter of personal taste, I still maintain the position that I find none of the female faces attractive, with the exception of Uhura.


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:21 am 
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Did you read LateBlt's response above and watch the follow up video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3UmOh2w4qQ
Most of what was said in the first video was not be taken that seriously anyway.

Also, I disagree with your statements that this game (series) was made for kids. Though the games have a comedic side, there is some mature content and situations (for example, the combat violence and this game's Harem scene and X-Ray glasses easter egg). It's the all "video games are made for kids" myth that causes a lot of controversy when a game made with a higher ESRB rating gets misjudged as badly influencing kids (when they shouldn't be playing it in the first place).

Anyway, sorry for that rant, as it may not even pertain. In general actually, QfG is fun for all ages, but be sure to be ready to explain things to the younger ones.

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Schloss Ritter,

I did see Latebit's response and video. He is clearly very embarrassed and I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.

With regard to what ages games are made for, there's a big difference between the game market today and almost 20 years ago when QFG first came out. Back then, 99% of the games really were made for kids. Leisure Suit Larry was a remarkable exception. There hadn't been a generation of people who grew up playing sophisticated computer games at that point. People my age are the first generation to grow up with those games and thus have an interest in the medium as adults.

There were sometimes things intended for the amusement of adults who happened to be along for the ride. But I'd compare the adult content in the original QFG games to the old 'Tiny Toon Adventures' show of the same vintage. It was definitely aimed squarely at kids, but there were enough adult jokes that flew right over the heads of kids to make parents pretty happy to watch it with their kids.

I just checked the box of the original QFG2 and it's rated for 'Kids to adults.' Certainly this excellent remake has been tailored a bit more towards adults than the original. The bottom line is that I think that people like Latebit end up looking like 'comic book guy' from the Simpsons when they allow their ideas about purity of the medium ('it must have a parser based system and have 16 color graphics!') to strongly overshadow simple enjoyment of the game as a game, totally missing out on how the originally intended audience would have received it. I remember being a kid when KQ5 came out with the new point and click system and after about 5 minutes we just got used to it. If an 11 year old can deal with it I think that Latebit might manage.

Somehow I find myself thinking about that dude in the second 'Toy Story' movie.


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:23 am 
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There's quite a bit of truth to what Steamrabbit says. Even if the Sierra games weren't made exclusively for kids, the fact is that most of us were kids (or young adults) when we first played them. Adventure game fans can be an extremely picky bunch at times and as the generation who grew up with AGI and SCI (and incidentally found those graphics and the overall quality level perfectly acceptable in the 80's and 90's) they tend to become more focussed on newly released adventure games not holding up to the originals, when perhaps the fact is that these are just different times and they're getting older. I have seen a dramatic shift in expectations for even fan-created games (or commercial attempts by ex-fan creators), since we first released release King's Quest I VGA in 2001.

In truth, King's Quest I VGA and King's Quest II+ received very little criticism, even though there was a fair amount to constructively criticize about both games upon their initial releases. Conversely, Al Emmo and the Quest for Glory II remake, despite both games having far higher production values and being more polished have received more flack.

It's kind of like George Lucas and Steven Spielburg were considered Gods in the 80's and could do no wrong, but nowadays the general consensus when someone watches the Star Wars prequels or the new Indiana Jones sequel is that they've lost their touch. Really, I think it's just that as kids many people watched those movies (and played Sierra games) with very high anticipation but not so high expectations. They just enjoyed it for what it was. But these days, film makers and game makers alike realize that the target demographic who enjoyed their movies/games as kids and young adults are much older, generally more cynical and consequently will be much more difficult to please. Now, instead of being able to turn their minds off and relax while the movie/game begins, the first thought that goes through their mind is "I hope this lives up to the originals. I hope they didn't screw it up!"

It's hard not to be affected by this mentality, and I have to admit that even I do it at times. The world is a much different place than it was 10-20 years ago, society is more fast-paced, and people in general have higher expectations for quality all-around since production values have increased. The game-halting bugs contained in Sierra games of the 90's would be considered totally unacceptable for a commercial product by todays' standards; particularly by modern adventure gaming fans. Yet the existence of said bugs in the 90's didn't stop people from buying and playing Sierra's games in record numbers. If you look at the old 80's and 90's movies/games today, there's still much to complain about. But as a younger generation, I think we tended to overlook the oversights because the storylines trumped the shortcomings. The same people who enjoyed these games as kids, tend to have selective memories as adults -- opting to remember all the high-points about those movies/games from their childhood, while forgetting that they contained faults on the same level (and sometimes even far exceeding) those of modern titles.

In the end, people will always have "...you shoulda/woulda/coulda done this!" and "I don't like that!" type comments, and that's natural I guess. People will always look for ways to improve upon experiences as adults, but as kids they tend to be content to simply relax and enjoy the ride with 'analytical mode' disabled.


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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:46 am 
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Well, LateBlt is considering running an LP of one of the remade QfG games. He'll go by majority vote through the comments on this video. Shall we all convince him to play v2.0 of AGDI's remake or go with the official QfG remake?

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:16 am 
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Because AGDI is licensed, does that make their remakes "official" too?

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:19 am 
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That depends on whether you think TSL is an official sequel because they have a license. :p

Personally, I'd say any game specifically commissioned beforehand by the IP owner is official while any fan-game given a license after start of the project is not. In truth the definition is probably far more sketchy and stretchy. (and personal) Fans will be eager to argue over whether certain expansion packs are official.

That said, I think if Lateblt never played the remake of either game through completely, QFG1VGA will have more aspects that get his goat. I did enjoy that game and I thought the battle system was WAAAAY better than QFG1EGA's (which was my least favourite in the series) and it had some nice new easter eggs here and there, but it did subtract stuff in other places, such as the mysterious scrapping of the troll's hoard, the cutting of the valley overhead and QFG2 title drop in the ending and some quirks like the way you have to pick up thrown daggers or the increased difficulty of the weapon master.

In QFG2VGA, he'll still be able to partially engage in his parser-love (even finding new stuff to tell people about) and I don't think there's any major cutouts. The only risk he'd take is that QFG2VGA's new battle system isn't his thing. More specifically, he goes into the desert to get some money for a map off a brigand and is dagger-tossed into submission. :p

Of course, I'm biased.

I think as long as he plays with an open mind, he'd be able to stand either.

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Quote:
Personally, I'd say any game specifically commissioned beforehand by the IP owner is official while any fan-game given a license after start of the project is not. In truth the definition is probably far more sketchy and stretchy. (and personal) Fans will be eager to argue over whether certain expansion packs are official.


Interesting thoughts. I like your thinking. But does that make your KQ3 remake official or not? Was it started before your license was acquired? :) And where is my early copy? I'll give a beta of SQ2 and KOS to anyone who gives me KQ3 Redux before it's released! :)

Kidding.

Mostly.

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Interesting thoughts. I like your thinking.


I based that definition partially on cases like the later Space Quest games. SQ1...4 were made by Sierra with the Scott Murphy and Mark Crowe at the helm. SQ5 was made by Dynamix with only Mark Crowe involved. SQ6 was made by Sierra with Josh Mandel at the helm and Scott Murphy's involvement almost being an afterthought. While plenty of SQ-fans have wildly varying opinions on the later two games, I don't see many disputing their "officialness" or "canoninity". If we can't take the production company or original creator into account (Lara Croft's designer quit Core Design after the first game, but sequels are still considered official) I figured this would be a fair definition.

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But does that make your KQ3 remake official or not? Was it started before your license was acquired?


No. The project was started in januari 2003, we were contacted by VU in november 2003 (slightly less than a month before the name change) and the actual license wasn't finalized until october 2004. Even if it was started after that date, I don't think it'd be official unless VU had commissioned us to do the project, rather than us starting the project on our own and then getting it licensed later. But that's kinda my own definition of things.

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And where is my early copy? I'll give a beta of SQ2 and KOS to anyone who gives me KQ3 Redux before it's released!


Methinks you shouldn't have said that. My moral compass sometimes allows flexibility on sneak-peakiness, but it's very rigid about bribery. :p

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:53 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:43 pm 
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The people have spoken and LateBlt has commenced with the QfG2 remake (he even specifies it's the recently released v2.0). The journey starts here.

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 Post subject: Re: LateBlt's Let's Play QfG on Youtube
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:31 am 
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In case anyone googling comes across this again due to the remake LP and the recent rerelease LateBlt moved to Russia about 9-10 months ago and never finished his VGA LP. I was playing along with him so as not to miss anything as he tends to use hybrids and explore everything even non point related. He gets to day 15 or so and gets frustrated at the Pizza Elemental. I ended up just playing through the end against his older version. Was actually really cool to play through the screens on the remake and alt tab to see the original since I intentionally never played the EGA version.

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