Prepare...

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crayauchtin
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Re: Prepare...

#151 Post by crayauchtin » Fri May 07, 2010 11:11 pm

Spikey wrote:The X, not a roman numeral.

Also, I suspect it won't be referring to jupiter in hermetic qabbalah, so what about something in the fashion of 'Project X'?
How do you make Project X eight words is my question.

"That Secret We've Been Working On, Project X"?

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Re: Prepare...

#152 Post by Spikey » Sat May 08, 2010 2:04 am

Lol, don't be foolish, I wasn't saying Project X equals eight words.

I was just thinking of the X as in X-files, for something hidden, secret, or X-factor, for something extra;
to inspire people that the idea of the X doesn't have to be the end of a word even if it's not a roman numeral.

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Re: Prepare...

#153 Post by Brainiac » Sat May 08, 2010 2:51 am

Spikey wrote:I was just thinking of the X as in X-files, for something hidden, secret, or X-factor...
Spikey, these gentlemen in black from the US federal government would like a word with you. :p

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Re: Prepare...

#154 Post by DrJones » Sat May 08, 2010 12:51 pm

pbpb33 wrote:Hey, didn't you say last summer that you thought you knew what the game was then? Or were you just joking? Btw, I tried out Kinky Island demo (am stuck trying to open the coconut to get to the, ahem, male "enhancement" drug ingredients)... and thought it had a certain charm to it. A lot of care was put into the game... and it wasn't unnecessarily crude or offensive, but definitely was sexually-explicit. I couldn't get the intro to run, though.
Well, what I did was to search adventure game sites for games starting with K and ending with X, and found this one.

Unfortunately, MusicallyInspired doesn't confirm or deny this guess.

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Re: Prepare...

#155 Post by Spikey » Sat May 08, 2010 1:18 pm

Brainiac wrote:
Spikey wrote:I was just thinking of the X as in X-files, for something hidden, secret, or X-factor...
Spikey, these gentlemen in black from the US federal government would like a word with you. :p
Don't worry, I'm well hiding within the CIA ( :( "Customer Insights & Analytics")

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Re: Prepare...

#156 Post by pbpb33 » Wed May 12, 2010 2:43 pm

DrJones wrote:Well, what I did was to search adventure game sites for games starting with K and ending with X, and found this one.

Unfortunately, MusicallyInspired doesn't confirm or deny this guess.
Good find! Wow, that could make for an interesting plot! Hopefully the game would have a clear anti-Nazi bent, similar to that of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

Hmmm... the title could be something like: Kronolog: blah blah blah and the Nazi Paradox, with blah blah blah being some new parts added to the title. I would definitely play it!!

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Re: Prepare...

#157 Post by Quest For Glory Fan » Wed May 12, 2010 6:42 pm

pbpb33 wrote: Wow, that could make for an interesting plot! Hopefully the game would have a clear anti-Nazi bent, similar to that of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
Image
That's precisely what would make it an uninteresting plot. There are already 105 games with Nazis as enemies and I doubt that list is complete.

Edit: Resized the image.

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Re: Prepare...

#158 Post by pbpb33 » Thu May 13, 2010 12:23 am

Quest For Glory Fan wrote: That's precisely what would make it an uninteresting plot. There are already 105 games with Nazis as enemies and I doubt that list is complete.
As far as I'm concerned, there can never be enough games with Nazis as enemies. 1,005 games wouldn't be enough. Besides, I like the idea of a "what if" historical scenario dealing with real history/alternate modern history... that's not something you see in too many adventure games.

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Re: Prepare...

#159 Post by Quest For Glory Fan » Thu May 13, 2010 12:30 am

I'd rather play Phoenix Wright, a nazi free game, about lawyers that makes one think and solve puzzles than any nazi game and you can challenge that. Nazi games just never have any substance.

edit: Has any game ever been pro-nazi bent? I'd probably play that as it would be interesting and/or amazing.

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Re: Prepare...

#160 Post by pbpb33 » Thu May 13, 2010 1:26 am

Quest For Glory Fan wrote: edit: Has any game ever been pro-nazi bent? I'd probably play that as it would be interesting and/or amazing.
I'm not sure if there has been one, but maybe something like that could be released as part of a package deal or series with other possible historical adventure games that let you play from the perspective of Imperial Japan during their adventures in Manchuria, Nanking, Bataan and Korea. I wonder what one would call such a series.

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Re: Prepare...

#161 Post by Lambonius » Thu May 13, 2010 2:03 am

pbpb33 wrote:
Quest For Glory Fan wrote: edit: Has any game ever been pro-nazi bent? I'd probably play that as it would be interesting and/or amazing.
I'm not sure if there has been one, but maybe something like that could be released as part of a package deal or series with other possible historical adventure games that let you play from the perspective of Imperial Japan during their adventures in Manchuria, Nanking, Bataan and Korea. I wonder what one would call such a series.
Quest for World Domination. I would play it. :p

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Re: Prepare...

#162 Post by pbpb33 » Thu May 13, 2010 2:28 am

Well, I was being sarcastic, and would never want to play any game with Nazis or Imperial Japanese military leaders as protagonists.

I also just realized that, if AGD2 didn't like the groundless rumors before, he definitely won't like discussions involving hypothetical pro-Nazi storylines... even if there is no suggestion that AGDI has anything to do with any of it. Ugh, threads like this are dangerous, from that perspective. :( I think I am going to just resist the urge ever to post another reply in this thread.

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Re: Prepare...

#163 Post by Anonymous Game Creator 2 » Thu May 13, 2010 3:38 am

Actually, I really don't mind games, like Grand Theft Auto, which let you assume the role of the anti-Hero.

Command & Conquer Generals, which I also own, allows you to play as Islamic jihadists, complete with suicide bomber units and Anthrax WMDs! And as for Nazis, Return to Castle Wolfenstein allows you to play as them in deathmatch mode, giving you such missions as "Destroy the Allies tank" or "Steal the Allies documents" etc. I see games as merely entertainment, and I don't really agree with the sentiment that life imitates art. I think it's the other way around.

The only thing that would annoy me is if the game was trying to push a political message or justify/humanize what the Nazis/Japanese did. If a game based on historical events is going to cast me in the role of the bad guy, then it should make it clear from the start that I'm evil and that I'm not trying to fight for some greater good. A historically accurate portrayal from a bad guy's perspective is always interesting though.

By the way, this discussion just reminded me of the game JFK Reloaded. Strange Game!


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Re: Prepare...

#164 Post by pbpb33 » Thu May 13, 2010 7:49 am

With adventure games that might allow the player to assume the roles of very controversial people from history, I think it could be difficult (though not impossible) to divorce the player's in-game goals with the politics or acts with which the famous person might be most associated, even if the game doesn't explicitly advocate those political views. Because adventure games have an emphasis on characterization, dialogue, character motivation, plot, etc., I think it's hard to avoid at least giving an appearance of implicit approval of the real life historical figure's goals when the player is rewarded for advancing the main character's interests through story-driven puzzles. Also, sometimes avoiding any judgement, as the game might do, of some real life atrocity is as bad as explicitly endorsing it. Not really referring to any specific games... and I would have to take games on a case by case basis before I could make a personal judgement on their individual merit, though.

By the way, at first glance the JFK game looks like nothing but a shock piece.... and one in very bad taste the way it puts the player in the role of a real-life assassin. I don't really buy the argument that the designers only meant to educate. It sounds a bit like BS, though I'd have to play it to see what I thought. I suppose the JFK game could be of interest to US history buffs or conspiracy theorists. As long as we don't start seeing games like ... Jeffrey Dahmer: The Graphic Adventure
Last edited by pbpb33 on Thu May 13, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Prepare...

#165 Post by Quest For Glory Fan » Thu May 13, 2010 1:05 pm

Justifying acts of genocide is wrong. Playing a game where someone thinks they can is not. This discussion is just silly. Lots of World War II games allow you to play both sides on the multiplayer campaign and I've never once considered not picking the germans because they are "evil" and you may justify this by saying "well you're just playing a soldier not Hitler" but there aren't many games where I can play as Winston Churchill either.

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Re: Prepare...

#166 Post by pbpb33 » Thu May 13, 2010 1:27 pm

Adventure games are very different than multiplayer war games. No one said that playing particular adventure games was "wrong". I would not be okay with playing as Hitler or Osama bin Laden... I think it would bother me. If you want to play an adventure game as Hitler, then go for it. As you said yourself, though, it may be hard to find a pro-Nazi adventure game.

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Re: Prepare...

#167 Post by MusicallyInspired » Thu May 13, 2010 2:43 pm

To be fair, in WWII games you don't play as Nazis. You play the German army. Two different things.

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Re: Prepare...

#168 Post by Quest For Glory Fan » Thu May 13, 2010 4:26 pm

MusicallyInspired wrote:To be fair, in WWII games you don't play as Nazis. You play the German army. Two different things.
Identically though there's no way to play as the Allies instead of the American Army(rarely is it a different Allied army), interestingly while playing "America's Army" it's hard not to see the message when every level has taliban look alikes as the enemy and regardless of what side you're playing your team is the Americans and the other team are "the terrorists" (always wearing turbans of course). That game pissed me off for the entirely different reason of making the choice for you in a game that is supposedly representing freedom. There are no Pro-Nazi games, not that they are in demand but there are also no games about Unicorns that take over cities by shitting on the residents. Although they'd be commercial failures you have to admit they'd be interesting.

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Re: Prepare...

#169 Post by Anonymous Game Creator 2 » Thu May 13, 2010 7:50 pm

America's Army is primarily a recruitment tool. It probably wouldn't make much sense for them to include other Armies when they're trying to coax an American audience into joining the marines.
Quest For Glory Fan wrote:it's hard not to see the message when every level has taliban look alikes as the enemy and regardless of what side you're playing your team is the Americans and the other team are "the terrorists" (always wearing turbans of course).
They should make it more realistic! Dishonorable discharge and court marshaling if you dare to shoot an enemy combatant, the ability to pile up the terrorists, Abu Gharib style (you could have contests and bets where the biggest pyramid wins), and a sub-plot involving a cabinet minister who always travels on the wrong side of the border, leading to a climatic showdown with a semi-invisible Alien from outer space with 4 protruding mandibles!
pbpb33 wrote:By the way, at first glance the JFK game looks like nothing but a shock piece.... and one in very bad taste the way it puts the player in the role of a real-life assassin. I don't really buy the argument that the designers only meant to educate.
There are other such historical-based games like Super Columbine Massacre RPG (which purports to have an anti-violence message by the end of the game) and V-Tech Rampage (which, conversely, was created with the aim of being purely offensive). As well as non-historical, but still controversial games like Muslim Massacre. Out of all these, I think I would find the JFK one to have the most historic and educational value, as (if the game's physics are accurate) it would allow players to test the "single bullet" theory and the "second shooter" conspiracy theory. The precise events and number of shots fired (and which targets they hit) are still strongly debated to this day. I've never played the game either, so I don't know how accurately it adheres to the timing of the Zapruder film's frames. (Actually, it doesn't look like it does at all). But I guess if even one person plays it and learns something, then the game has fulfilled it's educational purpose.

(Incidentally, Brookes Brown, the guy who was friends with that nutjob Eric Haris, and narrowly avoided the Columbine massacre, apparently works at LucasArts now. Saw him in a promotional photo for Monkey Island 2 SE).

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Re: Prepare...

#170 Post by pbpb33 » Fri May 14, 2010 7:35 am

Quest For Glory Fan wrote:There are no Pro-Nazi games, not that they are in demand but there are also no games about Unicorns that take over cities by shitting on the residents. Although they'd be commercial failures you have to admit they'd be interesting.
Are you certain there are no pro-Nazi games? I'm sure they exist. Have you looked through Neo Nazi websites? I think if you're persistent you should be able to find what you're interested in (i.e., a pro-Nazi game) somewhere on one of those. Who can say whether the games would be set in modern times or the 1940's, though. Best of luck in your search (if you do decide to search), and be sure to report back on your findings!

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Re: Prepare...

#171 Post by Quest For Glory Fan » Fri May 14, 2010 7:25 pm

No commercial games that I've ever heard of, I'm not about to go on a crusade for a 1mb flash game. I think a commercial game where you play as Nazis would be incredibly successful, you'd just never be able to fund it.

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Re: Prepare...

#172 Post by pbpb33 » Sat May 15, 2010 8:06 am

Quest For Glory Fan wrote:No commercial games that I've ever heard of, I'm not about to go on a crusade for a 1mb flash game. I think a commercial game where you play as Nazis would be incredibly successful, you'd just never be able to fund it.
I hope there isn't much of a market for that. I can't imagine someone not being embarrassed to say they found enjoyment from playing an adventure game (unless one was mocking the game) with a premise that casts something as contemptible as Nazism in a favorable light. To me, it would be as shameful as someone saying they enjoyed playing a video game with a main character that sexually assaults children. Some things are shunned and pretty much universally held in contempt for good reason, but maybe I'm missing something here.... perhaps it is possible to totally separate the themes of the game from elements like puzzle design, humor, art, music, etc. ... but still...

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Re: Prepare...

#173 Post by Quest For Glory Fan » Sat May 15, 2010 10:02 pm

Yahtzee recently had a quote that you reminded me of.
Yahtzee wrote: You know, I was watching Kick Ass a while back, and I had a strange thought during the scene where Nicolas Cage was mercilessly gunning down a roomful of severely outmatched thugs. I remember thinking, "I do that sort of thing in games all the time. But from this perspective it looks completely psychotic. Nicolas Cage comes across as an emotionally ruined demented sociopath who I'd never in a million years leave alone with children, and the character he's playing isn't very wholesome either. Is this what outsiders see when they watch me playing Half-Life? And why didn't he drop a grenade there? Those guys were standing really close together."
It's the same kind of thing, I play the villain in games, in Bioshock I harvest little girls for their "Feel good candy" and I don't think anyone would look down upon me for that. I've also killed several hundred Americans in video games and I'm not one, but putting on a grey uniform and saying "Wunderbar" doesn't really change the action at all so neither should really be judged.

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Re: Prepare...

#174 Post by pbpb33 » Sun May 16, 2010 8:47 am

Quest For Glory Fan wrote: It's the same kind of thing, I play the villain in games, in Bioshock I harvest little girls for their "Feel good candy" and I don't think anyone would look down upon me for that. I've also killed several hundred Americans in video games and I'm not one, but putting on a grey uniform and saying "Wunderbar" doesn't really change the action at all so neither should really be judged.
Hmmm, I'm not familiar with the games you mentioned, and had to look up the Bioshock thing to see what you meant... cuz, you know, to someone who didn't know about the game, the way you wrote it made it come off more than a little creepy. I don't always buy the "they're just games!" line... if something crosses the line and is morally reprehensible, then it should be called out (I'm not talking about any particular games here). As for violence, I feel like, since it's part of life, sometimes it's appropriate and necessary in games, BUT in general I don't like stuff that is shockingly obscene just for the sake of shock value... and I think boundaries are important.

Anyway, I feel pretty confident that MI isn't bringing us a pro-Nazi adventure. :p Has anyone here actually played that original Kronolog game, by the way?

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Re: Prepare...

#175 Post by Lady Pyro » Sun May 16, 2010 1:54 pm

'Called out' how? Like, people should be warned (through rating systems, like they are now) or 'called out' as in banned? I love violent games, in my current Fallout 3 File I'm labeled 'pure evil' but that doesn't mean any of that translates over to my real life. I don't feel bad for AI, why would I? It's not real and I can always smack the reset button if I'm having a particularity bad day and decide everyone in Megaton (<- a city in the game Fallout 3) has to die. Some days I just have to Destroy all Human (1 AND 2), or menace some civilians in Prototype, Grand Theft Auto or Saints Row 2. Some days I even smack around kids and punch teachers in 'Bully'. None of this reflects on my real life morals and for me (a semi-well balanced individual :P) whether I'm playing tetris, a typing tutor game or a first person shooter, I walk away from it as the exact same person who sat down. No more violent or immoral as before.
Speaking of first person shooters, there are plenty of World War 2 ones where half the players have to play as Japanese or German forces in order for the game to work. The reason these aren't controversial though is because there's no real difference between playing either side. You're just shooting each other, usually in a capture the flag or king of the hill styled game. So it works when no morals are brought into it, but I can see how if it was an actual role playing game and you were like, working in a concentration camp or a member of the Hitler youth then yeah, that defiantly would get some strange looks.
But I also have a strong stomach for the 'shockingly obscene' which is how I survive on video game forums :lol

I also have no idea what game MI has been hinting at, but I am terribly curious.

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