Buying Roland MT-32 Sound Module

[goatmeal]

And he also said he was on vacation when he wrote in on April 14...

Perhaps he's not back yet?

[haradan]

I use this one with no problems:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Uno.html

although I don't use WIn7 so I'm not sure.

But yes, if you use DOSBox it should be easy, at least it was for me and I didn't have to use midi mapping or anything. Just kinda Plug N Play

[pbpb33]

I didn't know that forum registration was closed. I posted a question about it. Maybe they just want new members to email them and they'll create the account for you? I've seen that before...maybe just email Tom and ask for an account.

Thanks! Yeah, I sent an email over. Btw, I'm so impressed with how much work went into that site. There is SO much information and music on there. It is THE comprehensive Sierra music resource. Also, there's so much help for Roland sound module owners.

I use this one with no problems:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Uno.html

Yep, that's the exact same one I had decided to buy later today from a local store. (besides, it was only one of two brands of USB-to-midi cables that I saw in local electronics and music stores.) There are cheaper brand-name and generic cables online, but I'm afraid those might not work with Win7, given the comments that someone else had posted on QuestStudios forums. After I get the cables today, the big test will come tomorrow or this week sometime when I have a chance to sit down and get it all set up.

[pbpb33]

I hooked up the MT-32 audio and MIDI cables. Luckily, my computer recognized the USB device when I plugged it in, so it looks like my MIDI cable works fine.

Question about the MIDI plugs: I'm supposed to plug the two MIDI plugs into the "in" and "out" ports on the back of the MT-32, leaving the "thru" port unused, right?

Anyway, I still haven't gotten the sound to play correctly when I start games in DOSBox. I have been using "Colonel's Bequest" as a test game. The music sounds very "off", and it appears that the MT-32 isn't being used to play the sounds, because the same "off-sounding" music plays whether or not the MT-32 is plugged in... and no messages appear on the MT-32 display screen.

(BTW, am I supposed to do anything special for the MT-32 music when running the game in DOXBox? I simply mounted c:, ran install to select the MT-32 sound, then ran the game, which started without issue...other than the "off-sounding" music. Am I supposed to type any MT32-related commands in DOSBox before running the game?)

Note: I am running Windows 7, 64-bit. I don't see any way to select the "USB Audio Device" (MT-32 connected with USB-MIDI cable), which shows up in my device manager, for default MIDI playback in my control panel.

I tried installing the Putzlowitch's MIDI mapper (http://www.sierrahelp.com/Utilities/Sou ... apper.html ), as suggested by "Salient" in this thread:
http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?P ... pic=3073.0

I followed directions on the Sierrahelp.com Putzlowitch page, and copied the extracted files to the System32 folder in my Windows folder. But it was unclear to me whether to copy the .cpl file or extract that and copy the extracted files from that .cpl file to my System32 directory. Well, I did both. I still don't see a way to select my default MIDI device in control panel, and I don't see a Putzlowitch mapper icon in my control panel. The Sierrahelp.com Putzlowitch page, which was written in 2007 for Vista users, says that 64-bit users should select "View 32-bit Control Panel Items" in the control panel, but I don't see that option in my Windows 7 control panel. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

That's where I'm at. I have to figure out how to get my Windows 7 to select my USB Audio Device as default MIDI player.... or maybe there are other things I have done wrong.

I am not a Windows expert in any way, shape or form... and I'm simply stuck, but I'm determined to get it to work!

Haven't heard back from the Quest Studios admin (I used their contact form) about registering for the forums. But at least the MT-32 still looks great sitting on my computer table!

[Lambonius]

If you use a frontend for Dosbox, it is usually possible to select which sound device you want Windows to use for each particular game, so you may be able to select your external device from there. I'm not sure how to do it natively in Dosbox itself though. It sounds like what's happening for you is a definitely result of your computer defaulting to the built-in MIDI as opposed to your external MT-32 unit. Most Windows MIDI setups can't properly emulate MT-32 music, so it always sounds "off," as you say. I'm sure MusicallyInspired should be able to answer this question for you though.

[pbpb33]

If you use a frontend for Dosbox, it is usually possible to select which sound device you want Windows to use for each particular game, so you may be able to select your external device from there.

Being new to the world of DOSBox, my first reaction was... what is this frontend thing you speak of?? So, I looked it up... looks like it is supposed to make DOSBox easier to use. Thank goodness!!!!! I tried DOSBox for the first time yesterday... and was not so happy to find I couldn't navigate my folders just as I can remember always doing with the old MS-DOS command prompt. I'm surprised I was able to start the game at all, to be honest with you, given the esoteric (at least it seemed that way to me) language of the necessary commands and the fact that DOSBox doesn't like my keyboard and made me re-assign particular keys (the colon and the forward slash, actually... somewhat necessary things in DOS) in order to let me use them.

In your opinion, which frontend is best, most popular and easiest to use? Regardless of whether or not the frontend helps with the Windows 7 default MIDI selection issue, the fact that I'll have some kind of graphical interface will be a great improvement.

[Lambonius]

For Windows, I have had good results with D.O.G., but I've also used D-Fend (which I think is discontinued now, while D.O.G. is constantly being improved.) The best Mac frontend is called Dapplegrey. The frontends still require a bit of tweaking, but it's all graphical user interface as opposed to text commands, so it tends to be a lot easier to figure out--plus, you have all your options, like sound options, graphics options, etc., much more easily accessible.

I would definitely go with D.O.G for a Windows machine. I found it very easy to pick up and use, plus I think they have some tutorials on the website. You can get it here: http://www.freewebs.com/erikgg/

[Spikey]

Congrats on the purchase, pbpb33.

How much did you pay? I saw a guy offering one on a bidding site, and have no idea how high I should go.

[MusicallyInspired]

Wow you really made it complicated. You don't need to do all of that. And a frontend won't help you either since when DOSBox looks for the MIDI devices while it's running and it's possible that they won't always be the same. So there's no way for DOSBox to figure out which MIDI device to use. A frontend can choose which MIDI interface to use but that's completely different and should already be set to either "default" or "win32" in the configuration file. So you don't really need to worry about it anyway.

Do this:

• Start up DOSBox
• Make sure you're in "drive Z:"
• Type "MIXER /LISTMIDI". This will list all your MIDI devices that DOSBox can "see" and utilize. It should display "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" along with any other MIDI devices your system has. If there's nothing there that resembles your USB MIDI cable then you're going to have to figure out somehow why DOSBox isn't sensing it. But if Windows is detecting your USB MIDI cable as you say that it should be there.
• Note the numbers that precedes each MIDI device. Remember this number next to your USB MIDI cable device.
• Open your DOSBox configuration file (accessible from the start menu).
• Scroll down until you see the "mididevice=" and "midiconfig=" entries.
• Enter "default" if it's not already there for "mididevice=" or "win32" if default doesn't work afterwards. Example: mididevice=default
• For the "midiconfig=" simply enter the device number of your USB MIDI cable that you discovered earlier with "MIXER /LISTMIDI". Example: midiconfig=3
• Save the configuration file changes and close it.
• Restart DOSBox and try playing your game again. Make sure that the games you're playing are set to "MT-32" in the setup (obviously I guess you've already done this).
• Don't be alarmed if the game doesn't start right away. It takes longer than usual to send the MIDI information to the MT-32 before the game starts. You may be staring at a cursour for a few seconds. But while you are the MIDI light on the MT-32 should be flashing and there should be messages on the LCD screen.

EDIT: Oh yes, and the only MIDI cable you need to plug in is the "MIDI In" jack. Just ignore MIDI Out and MIDI Thru. Neither of those are useful at all when just using the MT-32 to play games. Also, I don't know how it is on your MIDI cable (maybe read your documentation if any that came with it), but on mine you can get mixed up easily with the labels on the cables. The cable that reads "Out" means that that is the "Midi Output" cable (as in out from the system) and it should be plugged into a "MIDI In" jack on an external device. Same goes for the "In" cable. It is the Input plug to the system and should be plugged into the "MIDI Out" jack of an external device. But you're not going to need to plug it into the MT-32.

So, in short, just plug the "Out" cable into the "MIDI In" jack on the MT-32. And obviously make sure that your audio cables are plugged in as well or you won't hear anything even if it is working.

[pbpb33]

...
Do this:

• Start up DOSBox
• Make sure you're in "drive Z:"
• Type "MIXER /LISTMIDI". This will list all your MIDI devices that DOSBox can "see" and utilize. It should display "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" along with any other MIDI devices your system has. ...

Thank you SOOO much for this. I'm going to try all this later today...

...
How much did you pay? I saw a guy offering one on a bidding site, and have no idea how high I should go.

I paid about US$50, though I have seen some others on EBay that went for closer to US$100. I think I was somewhat lucky, in that I found a local seller with an auction that few people were bidding in... strangely, at the time there was another MT-32 for sale on EBay that had a lot more bidders. I think it's possible to get a good deal on one of these, if you just take your time and wait till something pops on EBay with no minimum "reserve" price.

[MusicallyInspired]

I really don't see the point in "reserve price" auctions. Why do people do it?

[goatmeal]

I really don't see the point in "reserve price" auctions. Why do people do it?

I believe it's used to to guarantee a minimum price for the object up for auction. Usually, the Reserve price is unknown to the Bidders until the bid prices go over the Reserve price ("reserve met" or something like that).

Let's use the QFG2-VGA poster that went for ~$7 as an example: Assume that the Seller had set the Reserve price at $50;

(A) If the bid prices did not reach $50 (i.e., the Reserve was not met), then the Seller could withdraw the item -- at no penalty -- and not be forced to sell for a price that is unacceptable or undesirable.

(B) If the Reserve was met ($50) but there were no other bids (that is, the $50-bid was the last bid), then the Seller will get the $50 minimium he was looking for.

(C) If the Reserve was met and bidding continues, then the Seller will get the maximum bid.


It is similar to a "Buy It Now" auction, except:
(1) the Bidders don't know the minimum price the Seller has set for the auction, and
(2) the Seller has the potential of getting a higher price above the minimum set price -- which he cannot do with a "Buy It Now"; after all, who would offer to pay more once the minimum sell price is known?

It's actually more like an "unknown" "Buy It Now", where the sale of the item is not always guaranteed (if the Reserve is not met, then no sale).

[pbpb33]

MusicallyInspired, you are amazing! Your instructions were perfect! You should be a tech writer. Anyway, I DID have the MIDI cables plugged into the wrong places (I didn't even know one was for MIDI in and the other for MIDI out), AND it was very easy to edit that DOSBox config file. THANKFULLY, I did see my USB Audio (MT-32) listed after doing the MIXER /LISTMIDI command, and that's what I set my midiconfig line to, just as you said.

Well, the result? I started up the Colonel's Bequest.... and on the MT-32 screen I saw "WELCOME TO THE ROARING 20'S!"

yay!!! I am so thrilled. This was one of the first Sierra games I ever played, and the music so far sounds great. I am going to play through some more now, and later maybe install a frontend for DOSBox before I look for more games to try.

Anyway, again, thank you SOOO much for all your patience and help! Hopefully this thread will provide some information for others thinking about buying an MT-32.

For people like Spikey and other fans of the classic adventure games considering an MT-32, I say go for it! The whole set-up thing wasn't nearly as complicated as it might have seemed from some of my reactions in the postings. Basically, I think once you get the proper connection cables and get your system to recognize the MT-32 for MIDI, then the rest should be a piece of cake!

Now, off I go to try out the game some more with the new music!

[haradan]

Good thing you got it working!

These are some games with awesome MT32 music (for me, at least ) : Larry 3 and 5, Space Quest 4, King's Quest 5, Conquest of Camelot, Conquest of the longbow, Quest for glory 2, Police Quest 2. Be sure to try them.

[MusicallyInspired]

Excellent! I'm glad you got it working! Enjoy your Sierra games with a new, fresh experience!

...
stuff I know
...

I know how reserve bidding works, but I still don't see the point.

[Quest For Glory Fan]

He explained it. It's like having a Buy it now price with the potential to actually make more. I know I don't bid on Ebay, I use "Buy it now" almost exclusively. If I were putting something up for bid though the reserve price is a great idea if you're not putting a buyout price. Also did a Qfg poster really go for only 7 dollars? That's just sad.

[pbpb33]

Congrats on the purchase, pbpb33.

How much did you pay? I saw a guy offering one on a bidding site, and have no idea how high I should go.

I know I answered this earlier, but I just want to add that one reason I think I paid less than other people is because the power supply that came with my used module wasn't adequate. The seller included a power supply (with a too low mA output of 200, when the module requires at least 650 or so), and I realized this after I had set up the whole thing... there was a humming noise and the display screen was not very bright... luckily I saw posts on Quest Studios forums describing the problem, so I wasn't too alarmed about the MT-32 itself, but rather figured the adapter wasn't up to the task (since its amp level was far below what people on Quest Studios forums -- and Roland, for that matter-- recommended). Perhaps the seller knew this about the power supply he was selling and let it be sold to me for less than others... out of guilt? Who knows, but all worked out in the end. I needed to purchase an AC adapter after the fact, which brought me closer to what most people probably pay (including taxes, shipping) for a used MT-32 that includes the power supply. It seems most sellers include power supply adapters that work fine, but if it's not included then you can always get one (about US$19) at a place like Radio Shack... so, you might want to factor that into your bidding decision... and know beforehand whether you're getting the power supply included or not.

[Lambonius]

Good thing you got it working!

These are some games with awesome MT32 music (for me, at least ) : Larry 3 and 5, Space Quest 4, King's Quest 5, Conquest of Camelot, Conquest of the longbow, Quest for glory 2, Police Quest 2. Be sure to try them.

Do you know if the MT-32 soundtrack for KQ5 is the same as the CD version's digital music?

[MusicallyInspired]

I can answer that. Yes, it's the same. Except in stereo and in higher quality. The digital tracks on KQ5CD are 22khz and in mono. Also, I believe that even if you have an MT-32 the game will still use the lower quality tracks because of the way the cutscenes are scripted and timed. That sucks. But there was a lot wrong with the KQ5CD release...including not being able to have text. At all.

[Amdahl]

All sorts of synths have been described in this thread... Except the one I use in addition to my MT-32.

If you run Windows XP, try and get ahold of Virtual Sound Canvas 3 (usually v3.2). It has the SC-88Pro patches, and can be used anywhere a USB attached MIDI instrument can be used. In other words, Dosbox can output to it as well as Win3.1 games.(If they run on XP at all...) This is a real cheap and great way to be able to play General MIDI games that don't do well on MT-32. There is a bug that causes blue screens if you actually use the Roland VSC GUI, but if you avoid that, it seems to work just fine.

I also have a copy of the Yamaha virtual synth known as S-YXG50. Not a good substitute for VSC3, but it is handy for playing any MIDI files that are targeted to Yamaha XG instead of Roland GS.

Yeah, it isn't as cool as trying to find a real synth, but it does get the job done, if on XP. (Actually, VSC3 probably works on Win98 and W2K as well. S-YXG50, not sure.)

Queststudios.com does have some MIDI files that you can send to your MT-32 before you play a General MIDI game to reduce the whackness. Not as good as VSC3, but better than nothing.

[MusicallyInspired]

I highly discourage the use of the Virtual Sound Canvas. It sounds no where near as good as a real Sound Canvas (SC-55, SC-88, or otherwise). It's pure crap. Don't bother. The Yamaha synth is actually much better. But still not good enough (and games weren't written for it). The best way to play games in General MIDI/GS mode if you don't have a real SC-55 is to just use Windows' built-in Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, which is made by Roland and is almost exactly, with a few exceptions, what a real SC-55 sounds like.

[Amdahl]

People who are interested in synths should try as many as they want.

I think as long as you know that the softsynths were created so that they didn't harm the hardware synth sales, there is nothing wrong with them. VSC is an improvement over the cut-down version that Microsoft licensed from Roland. Microsoft Synthesizer is noticeably lacking the effects, and seems stuck at 22khz in order to minimize CPU load.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes anyone can get whatever they wish, but the VSC isn't free and isn't near as good as a real sound canvas. Whatever higher quality it has over the Microsoft GW synth is not worth the price. It's just as well to use the Microsoft GS synth until you get an actual Sound Canvas.

[pbpb33]

Good thing you got it working!

These are some games with awesome MT32 music (for me, at least ) : Larry 3 and 5, Space Quest 4, King's Quest 5, Conquest of Camelot, Conquest of the longbow, Quest for glory 2, Police Quest 2. Be sure to try them.

I haven't tried all those yet, but today I tried SQ1VGA with the Roland. Wow, wow, wow!! It is my favorite MT-32 score so far!!! The MT-32 music really adds a lot to the atmosphere. Also, I was worried that in some of the games I would have to choose between good MT-32 music and no digital effects on one hand, and decent but inferior sound blaster music with digital effects on the other hand. Luckily, all the games (that I've tried so far, at least, including SQ1VGA) with digital effects that also support the MT-32 also give the option of using the Sound Blaster for the digital effects while still playing the MT-32 music. It's so great in SQ1 to hear the wonderful, rich music, and also to hear all the cool digital sound effects when doors open, things crash, guns fire, etc.

[haradan]

I think most VGA games added the posibility of using both Sblaster and MT32, but earlier games don't have both options, though. But I'd go MT32 over digital effects any day!