Buying Roland MT-32 Sound Module

[pbpb33]

Thought this might be relevant to the topic. Check out this guy's setup. Note the five MT-32s.

Wow, is it common for composers to have so many? Also, it looks like all those MT-32 modules have slanted faces, while the picture (of an MT-32 I'm considering purchasing) I posted earlier in this thread shows a module with a face at a right angle with the top. Maybe it's just the angle the picture was taken at that makes the front look non-slanted, or could that module pictured not actually be an MT-32?

[MusicallyInspired]

No. It's just a weird angle photo. There are no Roland synths that look like an MT-32 with a right-angle front. Besides it says MT-32 right on the the box in that picture.

[pbpb33]

No. It's just a weird angle photo. There are no Roland synths that look like an MT-32 with a right-angle front. Besides it says MT-32 right on the the box in that picture.

That's good to know. That picture is of an MT-32 for sale near me. I'm waiting to hear back from the seller about the serial number, but they haven't yet written back. I'm wanting a first generation.

Anyone here familiar with any major Japanese online auction or classified sites? Seems like a few of the common Roland module sellers on Ebay are in Japan, so I thought maybe the Japanese sites might also have some for sale that may not be on ebay.

[pbpb33]

There are few games that actually take advantage of the extra polyphony on the MKII and if you were to play these games on a regular SC-55 then you would hear some missing instrument voices every now and again. All Sierra games don't require it, though.

I've found a couple deals on SC-55 modules near me through Craigslist online classifieds, but I'm trying to figure out whether to just wait until an MKII pops up for a good price. How significant is the difference between SC-55 and SC-55 MKII when playing older computer games, particularly Sierra games? You mention that not all Sierra games would use the extra voices... but would there be any games that just wouldn't work with an SC-55 vs. an SC-55 MKII? Is the difference mostly minor, or would the missing instrument voices be very glaring?

I like Craigslist better than Ebay because, if you wait long enough, you can usually find someone selling something and not asking as much as they could ask... maybe they're selling something they don't know a lot about... like a relative's or friend's item that was left in their possession that they just want to get rid of for some extra bucks. I think I might be able to pick up a Sound Canvas (not MKII) for US$30.... :::crossing fingers::: ...A LOT less than what they can easily sell for on Ebay.

By the way, here's a picture of one of the Roland Sound Canvas modules I'm considering. However, the ad just says sound canvas, not SC-55. Can you tell by the picture whether it's a SC-55 or not? The price is good, so I hope it's the same thing.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm pretty sure that's an SC-55. A Mk-II would be labeled on the front. No Sierra games use the extra GS voices on the SC-55. And no Sierra games use the extra polyphony on the Mk-II so a regular SC-55 would be fine for you.

[pbpb33]

Do yo know what "modern-type revision" means, when referring to an MT-32? Is this a good or bad thing for gaming purposes? (see below) I believe you had said that, for gaming, you think that 1st generation MT-32 is better than 2nd generation.

Here's the product description for an MT-32 I'm considering:

Here we have a 1st Generation MT-32 with "modern -type" revision #1. This FM quality MIDI synthesiser comes with a preset library of 128 synth and 30 rhythm sounds, playable on 8 melodic channels (Midi Baised) and one rhythm channel (mono or Sterio ¼” jack). It also features a digital reverberation, modulation and precussive effects. Being a synthesizer rather than a simple wavetable device, the MT-32 is very programmable. Sounds are created from up to 4 partials which can be combined in various ways (including ring modulation). With 32 partials available overall, polyphony depends on the tonal complexity of the music, and 8 to 32 notes can be played simultaneously.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm not sure what "modern type revision" means, actually. He says it's a 1st generation, though, so I wouldn't worry. It might mean that it has a headphones jack like the 2nd generation but still have the characteristics of a 1st generation. Maybe just ask him.

[pbpb33]

Thanks again for all your help. I wrote the guy on EBay a couple days ago... no response yet.

Anyway, I was just checking out the queststudios forums. Been learning a lot more about the differences between the MT-32, first gen, second gen, CM-32L, etc. I also saw your recent posts over there (and where that guy rudely snapped "you should know that!" at you, which was totally unnecessary) and some others about the differences between the devices. The CM-32L sounds like a great option (but I haven't seen a single one for sale anywhere ) with some additional sound effects, though I think I agree with you, though, that having a first gen MT-32 is a wonderful thing if a main interest is playing Sierra games pre-1993... particularly the ones before LSL5... since it appears that it is what those games were composed with. And I kind of like the idea of having the original MT-32 that started it all... and I want the little screen with the cute messages, darn it, just because it's neat. But I still figure I'll keep an eye out for a CM-32L in case there's a deal out there to be had.

One thing I'm confused about, though... is what is the downside to having a second gen MT-32 (that isn't CM) vs a first gen mt-32? Is this the vibrato sound effect difference you were talking about?

[MusicallyInspired]

Well, I thought it was but apparently it isn't, seeing as the CM-32L doesn't have the vibrato issue. So I'm not sure what the difference is beyond a 16-bit input signal resolution and a headphones jack, according to the wiki entry.

[Spikey]

I have nothing sensible to add, just wanted to say this is a great and very informational thread, and makes me want to spend a lot of money on the MT32 and SC55. O_o.

[haradan]

Since it seems pbpb33 has not yey bought the module, I thought I might add my two cents. I own a CM32L and a SoundCanvas SC-55 ST. I think they are both fantastic. My enjoyment of Sierra games has never been the same since I bought my first module (the CM32L) back in 1990.

MI is a musician and knows his stuff. He probably detects subtle changes in pitch, volume, vibrato and stuff like that, but I honestly think that "normal" guys like you and me won't perceive much difference between an MT32 and a CM32.

So my advice is: if you find a good deal, go for it. Don't be so picky about exactly which module or which generation might be the best. As long as you have an MT32 compatible and an SC55 compatible module, you'll enjoy all Sierra games like you never thought you would. It's just my two cents, since I'm so happy with both my modules even if they are probably not "the" best modules of its kind, but I honestly think the difference is small for untrained ears.

MI:
I AM curious about one thing, though. Isn't it that first generation MT32 modules have a lot of buffer overrun problems? I kind of remember (though I might be wrong) that later Sierra games (late 80's) deliver the MIDI messages so fast that first generation MT32 can't handle them or something like that? Am I wrong?

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes, that's true. 1st gen MT-32s have a buffer overflow problem but it's not because the game transmits the data too fast, it's because a computer is too fast. So either you'd have to press the turbo button on an old 486, or if you're using a new computer just underclock the cpu cycles in DOSBox and it'll transmit at a proper speed. No problem. CM-series modules don't have this problem at all, though.

The excessive vibrato is very noticable to any ear but I incorrectly thought that this was present on the CM-32L, which it is not. It is only present on 3rd generation MT-32 devices (the CM-500 and CM-32LN, the latter of which was released in Japan only for laptop computers). The only difference you'll find on the CM-32L are slight volume differences and maybe a difference in the way a timbre is generated.

As Haradan said, you'll get superb results either way, but just remember that the 1st gen MT-32 is what most Sierra games were composed on and for. So if something ever sounds "off" and you have a CM-series that's why. But you probably won't notice or care. But also on the CM-series you won't get the cool LCD messages.

[Spikey]

So if something ever sounds "off" and you have a CM-series that's why.

Do you have a small example of that?

I'm now seriously considering buying, but I really don't know what to look for first.

[MusicallyInspired]

It's not really so bad. I posted an example earlier of the Dune 2 theme. In the CM-32L version some of the instruments are actually quieter and a little underwhelming. The MT-32 version is a lot more upfront and effective. My opinion, of course.

Really, though, you probably wouldn't notice the differences mostly.

I've been looking for examples of other differences but I haven't found any.

[pbpb33]

So if something ever sounds "off" and you have a CM-series that's why.

Do you have a small example of that?

I'm now seriously considering buying, but I really don't know what to look for first.

When you do searches on EBay or elsewhere, sometimes just type Roland Sound Canvas (without the 55), or Roland MT32 (try it with and without the space between the MT and the 32, and with and without the hyphen, etc.). Sometimes people describe their items a bit incompletely on EBay, so maybe find an auction that less people will view, meaning you'll have less competition from other bidders. Also, I found a Roland SC-55 on Craigslist (online classifieds) for a bargain US $30 (they only listed it as a sound canvas without the model number), but someone else beat me to the purchase. If I had only searched for "SC-55" on Craigslist, it never would have come up.

I would like to get an MT-32 (or CM-32L) and an SC-55. For me, they're kind of like collector's items. Also, for older games written for the MT-32, it seems like newer equipment (even using emulators) will never play the older music as a real MT-32 (or CM-32L) would and as it was meant to be heard. I'll probably get the original MT-32, largely because I remember seeing print ads with pictures of the sleek, black MT-32 box back in the day... when it just seemed like an out-of-reach dream component (reading the name "Roland MT-32" during then-newish Sierra games' installation setups used to make me think, "ooohh, aahhh, if only" )... I never knew anyone who had one, but my friends and I would talk about how cool it would be to have one. So it's kind of a personal thing, in a small way. I'm sure some of you can understand. Besides, I haven't seen a single CM-32L for sale anywhere I've looked online in the last month or so. Also, these vintage Roland modules appear to have very good resale value, so you would surely be able to recoup what you spent should you ever decide to sell.

[Spikey]

Thanks for the info, MI. I trust your judgment blindly. I will just try to get both.

pbpb33, I regard them as a collectors item as well, but very good ones at that.

I would also be interested in recording all these fabulous old soundtracks, if I could ever manage that, although that's being done somewhere by somebody else (can't remember the site).

[MusicallyInspired]

That would be Quest Studios. And also Sierra Music Central.

[Spikey]

I meant Sierra Central. I'm really impressed by the Eco Quest 2 soundtrack.

[pbpb33]

Well, I did it! I got a first-gen MT-32. I'm very happy. The black box really is a thing of beauty! I got an amazingly well-preserved unit (at a great price!) from a guy here who brought it from Japan, and I just love how it looks on my computer table. The thing looks like it could have been made today... I can't believe it's from the 1980's! Very classic design, seems built well. I only have the power supply (not the necessary cable to hook up the thing... I still need to figure that one out), but I love how it lights up when I turn it on!! The volume knob is so sensitive when I turn it, making the volume setting numbers change on the screen. I probably sound ridiculous, but don't you guys who have one of these agree that it looks really cool? I'm this happy and I haven't even heard anything yet. I'm really looking forward to running Space Quest 3 and the Colonel's Bequest with the MT-32 sound (there's something about EGA graphics with MT-32 music that makes me smile). By the way, Spikey or anyone else considering one of these, make sure you get one in near-mint condition (with few scratches, etc.), because it looks really spiffy when in good condition... making you even more proud to have it on your computer table! As for the Sound Canvas, I found one through an online classifieds site, and I'm going to pick it up by next week.

[MusicallyInspired]

Congrats! You won't be disappointed. Make sure you have some good speakers to do it justice! It really has a powerful sound.

You can play ScummVM games with the MT-32 as well. So if you have any LucasArts games (before Full Throttle or The Dig) you can play almost all of them with the MT-32. All natively through ScummVM, too.

After you get the proper MIDI cable you also need to get some audio cables. The simplest approach for that would be to get a cable with a stereo mini plug on one end and two 1/4" plugs on the other end so you can plug it straight from your MT-32 to your sound card's Line In (which is usually the blue plug, I think). I have a small 6-channel mixer that I plug mine into because I do audio recording from multiple sources and the mixer is plugged into my Line In. You wouldn't need a little mixer until you actually get your SC-55, though. Unless you don't mind switching the MIDI and Audio plugs back and forth all the time (in that instance it's nice to own a CM-500 ).

I'd like to get an SC-55 MKII eventually myself. Or an SC-88. Or and SC-88pro. Or an SC-8820. Or an SC-8850!! Oh great, now I've got collector's fever again...

[pbpb33]

Yeah, I know what you mean about getting collector's fever! For me it's a real treat to get something (the MT-32) I always wanted but assumed I'd never get.

I stopped by Radio Shack tonight, and saw something like this there:
http://www.markertek.com/Cables-Connect ... -159.xhtml
picture here:


Didn't buy anything yet. Wanted to be sure I was getting the right thing.

Also, with regard to the midi connections, I was reading on other forums where some people mentioned using midi-to-joystick cables. Would they do this because they were probably trying to use the MT-32 with older systems that didn't have USB ports? Or maybe they didn't want to use up a USB port? Is there a benefit to using the joystick port as opposed to USB when connecting the MT-32 to a PC?

I don't have a game card/multi-pin joystick interface in my system, but I do have many USB ports. Hopefully that won't be a problem. How many midi ports of the 3 (in, out and thru) on the back of the MT-32 box do I need to use in order to play games?

Should something like this (below) work?
http://www.cme-pro.com/en/product-detai ... duct_id=16


Thanks again for all your info!

P.S. - I'm not sure if this would affect how the box is connected to my PC, but my MT-32 was described as a first generation with "modern revision". Here's how the seller described it:
It means that instead of te intel 80 pin chip it contains the 100 pin chip which greatly expanded the combinational effects for the synthesiser. while it may be obsolete by today's synthesiser standards, it was the equivalent of going 'pentium-processing-power' in an era of '386.' Hope that expains it.

[MusicallyInspired]

Perfect audio cable.

A USB MIDI cable should be fine. I've heard that others used it. I seem to recall some people having problems of some kind but I don't remember what. If you had a MIDI/Joystick adapter you definitely wouldn't have any issues at all. But a USB one should be fine. I haven't used one so I don't know. But others have and have succeeded.

I have no idea about the 80-100 pin chip thing. Never heard of it before. It might be a custom addition. Sounds interesting. Maybe ask on the QS boards. They'd know.

[pbpb33]

Cool, so I have the audio cables. Still looking around for a midi-to-USB cable. If I don't find one at a local store, I'm just going to order online. My MT-32 experience will have to wait!

However, something has me a little scared... this thread from theQuestStudios forums:
http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?P ... pic=3073.0

Like the original poster, I'm also running Win7 Ultimate, and I am planning to connect the midi to my PC's USB. He seemed to have some trouble getting the MT-32 to work. For a few reasons, though, maybe he didn't have to go through as much trouble as he did:
1) A clued-in-sounding forum poster named Salient suggested using a particular midi mapper to avoid some of the hassle the poster went through. Maybe that would be a good idea.
2) I should get a Win7-compatible Midi/USB cable from the get-go. The original poster in that thread said he bought a new and better USB/Midi cable after his old USB/Midi cable didn't work. He also called the new one M-audio. What does M-audio mean?

Maybe if I do these things and learn from his experience, I will have smooth sailing? I'm hoping!! Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Finally, did you all know that QuestStudios forum registration is closed? See link below. Seems odd. Do they not want me there? Hehe, I'm just teasing. Seriously, though, it would be nice if they opened back up registration for new users. It is such an awesome site, and I'm sure there are many people who could benefit from and contirbute a lot to the forums there.
"keep out," they say. http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?P ... n=register

Anyway, thank goodness MusicallyInspired posts on this forum. He has been a godsend.

[MusicallyInspired]

DOSBox has its own built-in MIDI Mapper so you can choose which device you wish. M-Audio is a brand name. Makes MIDI controllers, mixers, audio interfaces and such.

I didn't know that forum registration was closed. I posted a question about it. Maybe they just want new members to email them and they'll create the account for you? I've seen that before...maybe just email Tom and ask for an account.

[Erpy]

Tom mentioned once that he preferred this method to hunting for spambots. You can still get an account by sending Tom an email (preferably with a clear subject header) and asking.