Online Community Philosophy (Split Thread)

[cez]

I think IA needs a lot more girls around their community and team. That'd fix everything

Seriously though, since we are on that topic, I do find that you could reach more people if you guys were a little bit less hostile in your own forums. After all, you do seem interested in bringing the community together by doing the contest you guys are now running, etc.

It's a cool forums for a guys only forums, but that's very far from what the Sierra community encompasses, and if you are doing the games for this community, it would be cool to think about it in full, and not only the people that fits the way you want to act. This, by the way, has really nothing to do with wanting to do something for money or not. Phoenix Online was not thinking about making money until later in the development, and it was actually a result of the potential we saw in the things we were doing with the development and the community.

On the other hand, if it works for you, it works for you, and that's that.

[MusicallyInspired]

You think IA's forums are hostile?

(this should be split into a different thread, I think)

[cez]

It should be moved.

But let me rephrase that. I think it needs a hefty dose of moderation. When everyone's saying expletives all around and saying whatever is on their mind with little tact and not much regards as to how other people may feel, I do feel that a lot of people may be afraid to say anything in fear that they may be mocked by others. I am generalizing, of course, but I've spent some time going over threads over there and some of the comments are way beyond what a "community for everyone" would allow.

Especially when so far it's mostly a King's Quest related forum, which is supposed to be a family game. Even with the upcoming release of Space Quest, these games are still family-oriented products. It's not a Halo-type community for sure, which, to me, is what it feels like sometimes (without the idiocy, of course, you guys are all very smart).

But, again, if you guys are happy with it, and it works for you, then that's cool by me. You guys have been doing this for the past 3 years, and you seem happy with the way you handle it.

[Lambonius]

I think IA needs a lot more girls around their community and team. That'd fix everything

Seriously though, since we are on that topic,

Really? I thought this topic was about the history of the KQ3 Redux project.

But let me rephrase that. I think it needs a hefty dose of moderation. When everyone's saying expletives all around and saying whatever is on their mind with little tact and not much regards as to how other people may feel, I do feel that a lot of people may be afraid to say anything in fear that they may be mocked by others. I am generalizing, of course, but I've spent some time going over threads over there and some of the comments are way beyond what a "community for everyone" would allow.

We never claimed to be a "community for everyone." Nor do we want to be. We clearly have an age disclaimer on our boards for just that reason. Personally, I'd like to avoid the wealth of teeny-bopper mentality fanboys and girls that a community like POS seems to have in spades.

[cez]

We never claimed to be a "community for everyone." Nor do we want to be. We clearly have an age disclaimer on our boards for just that reason. Personally, I'd like to avoid the wealth of teeny-bopper mentality fanboys and girls that a community like POS seems to have in spades.

And that is all fine by me, like I said. But I just would like to point out that this is coming from the guy that is so hellbent in staying true to the Sierra spirit. A big part of what made Sierra so special was the way how their community was handled, especially, again, because you are dealing with family oriented products, and you refer people to your forums for technical support, etc. If your game was mature in ratings, that'd be a different story, but you are recreating a game for the family and that is a legacy that you should support (and respect) as well.

You honor Sierra immensely through your products, there's no question about that. The question is whether you give it a bad name through your community and therefore the way such products are handled in a PR way. That's not something I'm saying you do, and I don't need a rebuttal either, I'm just posing it as a question to yourselves.

A suggestion would be to have a section of the forums for people over 18,, where you can vent off and say whatever you want, and then keep the rest of the forums family friendly.

And that's all I'm going to say on this subject. I really don't like telling people how to do things, and I hardly ever do. Apologies for taking this thread off-topic.

Now, I'm REALLY excited about KQ3! Can't wait to see where you guys take the whole father thing! I hope you end that storyline, and if not, I'm still excited to see where it goes!

[Erpy]

One thing I became convinced of over the years is that IA's style of presenting themselves is a fully concious decision that already had all the pros and cons considered and reconsidered. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be posting this because I had the exact same discussion with them several years ago and I made the exact same arguments to boot.

You can't teach a rooster to whistle, even if that'd make him more popular with the neighbours.

[Jerminator]

Personally I think your way off board Cez.

IA's forums are way more mature than POS, and I'd rather browse their forums anyday.

Any topic that someone doesnt want to read they dont have to click on, its like saying "I dont like UFC coming on tv, its too violent" well then turn the channel. We're not all mindless zombies that are helpless and ignorant, and with such "advice" I just dont think its warranted.

Go sit on a cactus

-Jerm

[Klytos]

My God in heaven, I was just trying to make a sensible remark in response to Erpy's comments, which as usual were clear and concise. I was trying to draw a picture about the differences between IA and AGDI 5 years ago and explain why people may have acted the way they did. I'm comfortable with AGDI's style and attitude, as I am with IA's. I can appreciate the differences and celebrate the fact we both love what we do. I am so sorry that my comments have caused this thread to go off track.

Cez, your whole post is premised on a false belief. These games aren't family games anymore. They were, 20 years ago. Now they're more of a "cult classic" status, played in the majority by people who are no longer children.

And if your premise about only attracting a small portion of the community is right, what does it matter? Maybe that's all we want to do. Don't mistake us for yourselves. We have no lofty ambitions apart from having fun with our hobby and playing around in these awesome worlds.

And just because some people feel free to drop a swear word in to a post doesn't mean we're forcing them to adopt that attitude. We have people with strong religious beliefs on our team. They don't get involved in those discussions which venture in adult directions, and we don't force them to. We also have women on our team, and as regular forum members, who seem to be able to participate without any adverse effects on them. It's about living in the reality of the world Cez, not some fantasy make-believe world where everything and everyone is perfect and polite and only conversations about ninjas and cute hole in the walls take place. If that's how you want to run POS, go for it. Don't try and impose it on us.

~ Klytos

[cez]

I wasn't trying to impose it, Klytos, I was just giving my point of view and a suggestion, that's all. I did say if you guys were happy, and you obviously are, continue to run it the way you want.

However, woah, you guys do take criticism very bad. I'd suggest then not to be as quick to give it then, for example, when it comes to TSL, if you are going to be so sensible when taking it. If you reacted like this to a polite post, I don't even want to know what would you guys say if I used the same mannerism in which you guys talk about us and our products sometimes.

It's all good. Don't worry, I'm not going to say anything else about you guys anymore --you certainly don't want to hear it. and I'll try to find a good shaped cactus to sit on.

[Erpy]

Okay fellas, that's enough for now. This thread is linked to in just about every forum where the game was announced, so I'd like to keep it on the right track. No need to post any further retorts or conversation-enders...consider this post just that, mkay?

Thanks.

[Klytos]

Apologies Erpy.

Back in our boxes boys. Let's go make Roger squash a squid.

[navynuke04]

Erpy was right about that thread being linked to on a bunch of different sites. Because we will be getting a ton of new visitors, I wanted to make sure we were concentrating on the appropriate topic.

I'm not necessarily saying drop the subject, but please keep the conversation non-hostile. Things like telling someone to go sit on a cactus really isn't appropriate. m'kay?

[Blackthorne519]

A little discourse is always fun.

The world's a large place, with lots of different tastes. I like to think IA fills a need that is specific, not general. It's okay that way - there's plenty of places where those who aren't comfortable can go. I keep the invitation to IA's forums open to anyone, and I'm glad there is diversity in the community.

As for my personal feelings, Klytos hit it on the head when he said "These were family games 20 years ago, they aren't now." That is very much true - many of our fans were kids when the games came out, but now are adults. I think IA attracts more of that crowd than younger, newer fans - which I am TOTALLY okay with.


Bt

[navynuke04]

I'm glad the IA forums exist. AGDI moderates and tries to keep things family friendly. In doing so, we've alienated a few people. Those people can feel free to express themselves as they see fit at the IA forums. A lot of people actually post at both forums and I think that is great. Our relationship in the beginning was stressed, but I think both groups have found a way to co-exist and to respect the other. The community as a whole is better because of it.

The more sites that attact attention to the genre, the better.

[Blackthorne519]

Exactly - I'd like to think that there's a niche for everyone, and I like that the community's forums are all different - we have some cross pollination of members, and some only stick to their "home" base. But that's how life works, and I think we all know that and respect each other now. Well, I know I do.


Bt

[Klytos]

Our relationship in the beginning was stressed, but I think both groups have found a way to co-exist and to respect the other. The community as a whole is better because of it.

For me, it was coming to the realisation that AGDI would never be as liberal as IA and it wasn't in anyone's interest for me to keep insisting that they should be. It's growth as a person and personal maturity when you realise that sometimes people with different viewpoints can co-exist and even have a healthy discourse. I'm not always level headed at times, the righteous anger flares up and I say something that probably wasn't helpful. Of course, when my co-founder is the brilliant and witty Blackthorne, he can be the sane one.

I also think AGD2 hit the nail on the head when he said that sometimes it's not the teams themselves but the people who associate with those groups that turn the heat up on perceived wars / rumours of wars.

[navynuke04]

There is an easter egg in KQ3:Redux that is in honor of Infamous Adventures.

Happy hunting!

[MusicallyInspired]

There is?....why don't I remember that...

[navynuke04]

If I recall correctly, the egg is more in the spirit of IA and doesn't necessarily call them out by name. They were definately on Erpy's mind when he added it in though.

If you want a clue PM me and I'll tell you where to look.

[MusicallyInspired]

HAHAHAHA!! That was fantastic. Definitely in the spirit of IA! Can't believe I didn't know that was there before!

[navynuke04]

Dude, keep poking around. Erpy has hidden so many eggs that I'm still finding them.

[Lambonius]

I just can't help but find it highly ironic that the founder of a design team/forum with so many openly gay members is over here flaming us with what is essentially a conservative (if not dictatorial) view. "Think and act the way I see fit, or go piss off."

Oops. Was that offensive?

[cez]

I just can't help but find it highly ironic that the founder of a design team/forum with so many openly gay members is over here flaming us with what is essentially a conservative (if not dictatorial) view. "Think and act the way I see fit, or go piss off."

Oops. Was that offensive?

What does conservatism and politeness have to do with one another anyways? As far as I know, the fact that we do not discriminate people because of their sexual orientation, and have a forums where everyone can have a voice as long as they respect everyone else's views, and are tactful in the way they address others, is the exact type of thing I was trying to defend in the first place.

Cez

[seraphimdreamer777]

Hey cez First of all I openly feel that I was meant to be a lesbian woman. Seriously.

Second I've learned over the years even though I can be bad about following my own advice STICKS AND STONES!!!
What it means is don't let words hurt you just watch out for flying sticks or stones that people throw at you.

Third I'm also a Christian though some Christians if not most would disagree and there is a saying do unto other as you would want them to do unto you. People of other religions would call this karma. But what I'm getting to is from what I read you started this and brought on yourself.

So please just try to keep your comments nice and respectful and maybe people here will treat you nice and respectful.

[Erpy]

I just can't help but find it highly ironic that the founder of a design team/forum with so many openly gay members is over here flaming us with what is essentially a conservative (if not dictatorial) view. "Think and act the way I see fit, or go piss off."

Oops. Was that offensive?

Sorry, but I think you're connecting dots that were never connected to begin with. Political views and views on managemental or PR techniques are two completely different things and I see no logical relation between them.