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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:52 am 
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That is very disappointing to hear although sadly unsurprising.

How are Postcards from Anozira treating you? Do they provide a steady income? Perhaps it would be profitable to combine the qualities of your remakes and Al Emmo with more casual elements to sell on portals?

Imagine this, if you will: a visible character would traverse a relatively open world, just like in classic King's Quests. Then he or she would stumble upon an obstacle - for example, a bard wishing for a lute ;) From this point on, the word "lute" (or "an instrument" on higher difficulty modes) would appear in the list of objectives, the same way objects do in typical Hidden Object Games. To slove this quest, the player would have to travel around the game world until he spots the lute and clicks on it - again, similarly to HOGs. Of course, several quests (objects to find) could be active at any given time.

I know for a fact that creative direction, exploration and the stories of King's Quest games greatly appeal to non-gamers. Perhaps they would be willing to pay for such a gateway drug to the world of classic (gameplay-wise) adventure games? Especially since I can't think of a similar product currently on the market.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:41 am 
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Klytos wrote:
http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,1286

Check it out. An article about Telltale's plans for KQ.


I was about to post this... Beat me to it, although I was a few days behind...

AGD2, I hope that you are able to have positive conversations with Activision. It really isn't fair that TellTales will be making money off of you. I've been following you guys since I was in middle school back in the Royal Quest days, and they wouldn't be doing this at all if it wasn't for your decade of hard work, blood, sweat, and tears! Heck, I doubt The Silver Lining would have happened without you guys...


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Also, he pretty much gave a blunt admission of what I'd suspected all along; that he thinks it's a good idea to hikack the wave of "fan-made" hype, commercially, on the backs of those who put years of effort and sweat into building the audience up for free.

I didn't get that from the article. He referenced "internal enthusiasm" and "favorites among the staff" as to "why King's Quest." Care to quote what you're referring to?


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:38 am 
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Quote:
Imagine this, if you will: a visible character would traverse a relatively open world, just like in classic King's Quests. Then he or she would stumble upon an obstacle - for example, a bard wishing for a lute ;) From this point on, the word "lute" (or "an instrument" on higher difficulty modes) would appear in the list of objectives, the same way objects do in typical Hidden Object Games. To slove this quest, the player would have to travel around the game world until he spots the lute and clicks on it - again, similarly to HOGs. Of course, several quests (objects to find) could be active at any given time.


We're currently working on another HOG side project similar to this, but the main character won't be visible. A lot of elements are shared between HOGs and Adventure games, so it's always a good source of attracting more casual players toward traditional adventure games; those who prefer a more challenging experience. Truth be told, though, I'd much rather make adventures than HOGs.

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I didn't get that from the article. He referenced "internal enthusiasm" and "favorites among the staff" as to "why King's Quest." Care to quote what you're referring to?



article wrote:
AG: Have you been following The Silver Lining and AGD Interactive’s King’s Quest remakes? Did these projects play any role in your decision to make new KQ games?

DG: Yes—in fact Cesar Bittar from Phoenix Online used to work here at Telltale, which is how I personally got my first look at The Silver Lining. The fact that the King’s Quest community is enthusiastic enough to put in the kind of time and sweat that it takes to make games like that gives me a lot of confidence that a new KQ title is a good idea. Of course, I also know that that audience will have high and specific expectations that we’ll have to live up to. But what else is new?


He admits that we've put a lot of "time and sweat" into remaking the King's Quest games and the community is interested in them right now, and that gives him confidence that it's a good (financial) idea for TellTale to "reboot" King's Quest and seize the moment. They're not doing this just for fun - they're doing it to make money. Telltale is a multi-million dollar company who could go after any IP they want and make just as much money by doing something else. But by Dave Grossman's own admission, they went after the KQ franchise because of its current popularity in the community. Smooth.

What's also ironic, is that the TellTale forum is currently filled with worried posts about them possibly not being able to pull this game off. People are posting polls and giving feedback to guide their developers in the right direction. But if they actually require such feedback, and don't already know how to make a great KQ game to the satisfaction of the fanbase, why on earth did they acquire the license? Seems like a preemptive move, which will now have limiting future repercussions on the series and licensing of the IP, regardless of whether their game turns out good or bad. Telltale looks out for Telltale.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:30 am 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Telltale looks out for Telltale.


Who SHOULD they be looking out for?


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:39 am 
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Naturally, they'd look out for their own interests, but my point is that to do so willingly and knowingly at the expense of others, particularly in such a tight-knit niche/community, is a shitty thing to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:18 am 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Naturally, they'd look out for their own interests, but my point is that to do so willingly and knowingly at the expense of others, particularly in such a tight-knit niche/community, is a shitty thing to do.


Yeah, it is - but are you surprised? Business is cuthroat these days.... people will do what they have to do to get ahead. I guess I'm not shocked by that kind of move from anyone.

My hope is that your momentum from your remakes can propel Mage's Initiation (and future Himalaya Games) to success and you can get your piece of the pie.


Bt

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:51 am 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Naturally, they'd look out for their own interests, but my point is that to do so willingly and knowingly at the expense of others, particularly in such a tight-knit niche/community, is a shitty thing to do.


Earlier you stated that you never approached Activision for a license to go commercial on these properties. It's not at the expense of others if they're the only people who have made the request. They saw an opportunity nobody else was exploiting, took a plan to Activision and that's where we are. Did you expect to just be offered a commercial license based on your fan remakes and enthusiasm? First rule of business, get in first.

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:53 am 
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POS were inquiring about the KQ license too, and Telltale were well aware of that.

I'm not claiming TellTale aren't 'wise' to seize business opportunities. But getting such a license is not the crucial foot-in-the-door to them that it would be for us. They'll survive as a company either way, and continue to expand based on other licenses they acquire. But to take the opportunity away from smaller companies (who don't have license-negotiating ability with anyone other than Activision) isn't a business decision made out of necessity to ensure TellTale's continued existence. If they wanted to maximize support for this reboot, the gung-ho way they've chosen to go about getting the license, like it's some kind of trophy, was not a very smart approach. If it were me, I'd firstly have the foresight to recognize the sensitivity of the issue, and I'd also be concerned about remaining on good terms with potential partners in the niche who could help me, rather than causing division and resentment among them.

And yes, I am surprised. I was expecting more from TellTale. I held them in high regard from previous business-related discussions we'd had with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
But to take the opportunity away from smaller companies (who don't have license-negotiating ability with anyone other than Activision)

Are you saying this locks you out of negotiating with Activision for all former Sierra series? If not, why not apply for a Space Quest or other series license?


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:00 pm 
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There's Donald's Playground, but I think Disney holds the rights now. :p

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:29 pm 
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At the end of the day, the proof of whether Telltale did good will be in the sales figures. That's what it's all about.

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:22 am 
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I have no doubt that Telltale are going to profit from a market that AGDI has sustained, but surely this is part of the danger of making games on a "not for profit" license. I still hope AGDI could be granted some form of license but wonder if a lot of this will depend on Telltales reaction to the idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:15 am 
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Things are still up in the air, so commenting further would just be speculation on my part. Activision recently went though a huge restructuring and new developments need to process with an entirely different department which is sill being settled internally. I don't believe TellTale has any influence over license distribution, as that's solely at Activision's discretion. The general direction of communication has been positive, but I don't want to jump the gun unless we get something confirmed and in writing.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:44 am 
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I've read that one of the people working at Telltale also worked for POS.

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:13 pm 
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DrJones wrote:
I've read that one of the people working at Telltale also worked for POS.


That's Cez, the TSL project director, although he no longer works at TellTale. What's your point?


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:33 pm 
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That maybe the interest on the KQ franchise came from the ex-workers of POS, instead of wanting to reap benefits from the good work of the AGDs

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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:36 pm 
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DrJones wrote:
That maybe the interest on the KQ franchise came from the ex-workers of POS, instead of wanting to reap benefits from the good work of the AGDs


But there are no ex-POS employees at TellTale, it's the other way around :)


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:17 pm 
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From the sounds of everything, it doesn't sound like TellTale is an exclusive rights holder, I may be completely wrong. They will do their thing there is no stopping them, but who's to say AGDI won't be able to make a commercial release of KQ4 or KQ8 (the two most popular requests). If it is exclusive then there are other Sierra IPs that could be remastered....


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:56 pm 
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I would have much preferred to see POS get the license over TellTale. That way, we'd all have more options about working with the IP. Telltale have a history of making compromises that maximize their own profits, while being detrimental to gameplay. But even if they start taking more risks by including elements that they haven't previously used in their adventure games, KQ Reboot will effectively be an experimental project for them. It's all well and good to say "We're including deaths" but there's a certain 'art' to death-inclusion--you can't just put them in there for the sake of it. Without establishing and respecting the design philosophy that necessitates and justifies the existence of deaths, it'd feel like a forced attempt to make the game feel Sierra-esque.

Back to the Future has been hugely disappointing to me so far; much of the material seems like forced fan-service with limited environments and non-puzzles. As a BTTF fan, I tried to like the game -- I really did! But it doesn't have the snappy feel of the movies. It feels closer to the cartoon series which I'd rather disregard. TellTale's gameplay mechanics and writing style just don't seem to be improving at a drastic enough rate to convince me that they'd be competent enough to pull off a KQ game, without it merely being a Sierra-branded TellTale title. Hell, they haven't even managed to nail the formula that made the 80's and 90's LucasArts games so enjoyable yet, and they're already trying to tackle Sierra? One thing at a time, boys!

So yeah, it seems that KQ Reboot will probably be mediocre (going strictly by the data we have available to us from their previous titles), but it'll sell because people are content to buy Telltale's stuff, regardless of quality. That tells them that what they're doing is working for them financially, so there's no incentive for them to improve. I've always said that you learn much more from your failures than from your successes. In fact, too much success can lull you into a false sense of complacency/security, so sometimes a little bit of failure helps to keep things in check. Suffice it to say that KQ isn't the franchise TellTale should risk failing at in order to learn these lessons. If they can't guarantee with a firm promise that they know how to do this game justice, then they shouldn't even be touching it. They're hum'ing and hah'ing about what Sierra fans might want, which doesn't inspire me with much confidence. KQ isn't the game they should be using to "learn on the job".

Rollercoasternd, What's confirmed is that TellTale have the rights to KQ sequels. But KQ remakes are a different license altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
KQ isn't the game they should be using to "learn on the job".

I'm sure you saw this coming but... sound like someone you know? :p

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Rollercoasternd, What's confirmed is that TellTale have the rights to KQ sequels. But KQ remakes are a different license altogether.

So are you saying that you were looking to make sequels and that's the license they took away from you?


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Ohhh the plot thickens...

You know something that is really bugging me. The fact that they made this announcement and now we are all sitting around waiting to see what they are going to do. I know I mentioned this earlier/elsewhere, but it really bothers me that they made an announcement and they have nothing to show for it, which granted happens allllll the time with FanGame announcements, but shouldn't happen with commercial endeavors. When you announced Mage's Initiation there was something for your followers to look at, which is great. But they just slap the KQ logo on their page and move on to the next episode of BTTF and Jurassic Park. So now we are all freaking out wondering what is going to happen to the Mother of all IPs.

At least there is some good news, you may be allowed to continue remakes commercially. Although that probably means we won't see the end of Wookie's story. I believe I read that it would conclude in an original sequel not a remake, could be in a super extended remake of MoE, that veers completely off the original MoE story line. But anyways thats all in my head...

Back to TellTales... Contracts can be modified maybe Activision will have allot of faith in you and change TT's contact in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:35 pm 
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rollercoasternd wrote:
it really bothers me that they made an announcement and they have nothing to show for it

Yes and no. I don't know this for a fact but I suspect they've been using/modifying/developing the same engine for the last who-knows-how-many adventure game releases so pretty much all they need to do for KQ is script, as far as coding goes (much like AGDI using AGS, but in 3D). They also probably have quite a nice collection of base models to modify/reuse (trees/grass/houses/human/etc.) as well as a generous texture/image collection. I think the only thing they would need to do from absolute scratch are the music, sound and voices, though the modeling/texturing/animating work is also there for what they can't reuse or easily modify. In other words, they're far from just starting. That said, it could still take them a year to get the first episode out.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:27 am 
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Radogol wrote:
DrJones wrote:
I've read that one of the people working at Telltale also worked for POS.


That's Cez, the TSL project director, although he no longer works at TellTale. What's your point?

Maybe that he also worked for Activision, if you're of mind to put together conspiracy theories regarding TSL, Phoenix Online and fan licenses.


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 Post subject: Re: Telltale to Reboot King's Quest
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:11 am 
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Telltale have a commercial license, it's a far cry from a fan license such as AGDI or POS hold.

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