3 Years on... yet there is something still unanswered.

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Broomie · #1 Post by **Broomie** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:23 pm

Of course today is the day three years ago where thousands lost their lives, a terrorism act gone too far. We will never forget.

Yet, on my surfing through the internet, I discovered something. This.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memor ... n.php#Main

This has really confused me, watch it yourselves and give me your opinions.

If it was true though, this would have been on the news everywhere, yet it's in a simple flash file.

KKuhlman · #2 Post by **KKuhlman** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:47 pm

Can you (or anyone else) explain me whats in it?
Every time I try to watch it my computer crashes after a while of loading.

Senor Matt · #3 Post by **Senor Matt** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:48 pm

Broomie, there is no great event in America's history that doesn't have some kind of conspiracy theory attached to them. And many times the "facts" that the theorists report turn out to be overexaggerated or just plain untrue. Now I'm not saying that the government doesn't lie to or keep secrets from us, of course it does. But you've always gotta take stuff like this with a grain of salt, meaning you should always question it. Especially when you get it off the internet, cuz believe it or not, sometimes people put things on there that aren't true.

If it is true, I would have no trouble believing that our government would be willing and able to do something like that. But a site with a name like "freedomunderground" certainly sounds like just another conspiracy theory site to me.

MusicallyInspired · #4 Post by **MusicallyInspired** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:56 pm

That's insane...

Weirdness.....

fluxmaster · #5 Post by **fluxmaster** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:02 am

For the benefit of Soulblighter, what the site says is, basically, that the Pentagon was not hit by a Boing 757, and as evidence it states that, when an airplane crashes, particularly a very large one, the remains of the airplane are left at the crash site, but at the Pentagon there were no airplane remains at the crash site. It further states that eyewitness accounts said that a small plane flew low near the Pentagon, and that a missile hit the pentagon. In addition, it states that there were photographs taken [presumably of a missile hitting the Pentagon], but that they were confiscated by the FBI immediately after the attack. The implication of all this is that the U.S. government planned and executed the attack on the Pentagon.

The problem with all this is that, if the U.S. government had caused the attack on the Pentagon, it would also have had to cause the attack on the World Trade Center, since they happened nearly simultaneously. Although the U.S. government has done nasty things, it is quite a stretch to imagine that it would have orchestrated all the attacks of that day, or even one of them, for that matter.

The site also says that eyewitness accounts of the WTC attack stated that the planes that crashed into the WTC were small private planes, not jet planes. But I don't believe that small planes could have caused the destruction of the buildings; in fact, a USAAF bomber crashed into the Empire State Building in 1945 and caused no significant damage. Although the WTC was not built as strong as the Empire State Building, I don't think that it could be brought down by small planes.

Swift · #6 Post by **Swift** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:53 am

That was a weird flashmovie.

JWar · #7 Post by **JWar** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:07 am

I thought that was pretty enjoyable, movie wise. And with enjoyable I don't mean I enjoyed the facts they were 'reporting'. I think the mood of the movie was well done.

Skyshark · #8 Post by **Skyshark** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:34 am

I've seen it before, and I've always wondered why the plane that struck the Pentagon wasn't covered as much as the WTC tower attacks. 99% of what footage I've seen about the 11th of September attacks was of the planes striking the towers, compared to the Pentagon attack and of the plane that was brought down in a large field.

Daffi · #9 Post by **Daffi** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:34 am

And Bin Laden's face appared in the smoke rising from the WTC; and the Jewish employees at WTC and the pentagon didn't show up for work that day; and it was really a cooperation of the FBI, NSA and the Mossad, aimed at giving the Bush administration an excuse to attack the Muslim world; and it's predestinated anyway, as you can see if you fold a 20 $ bill the right way.
Give me a break, people! There was more media coverage of the WTC because there were more casualties; because it envolved civilians; because it was the biggest terrorist attack in history; because it's NY; because of the symbolic target (the field wasn't really symbolic, and the pentagon symbolizes something completely different); and because it happened first and was broadcasted live, so it remained in people's memory.
And while we're at it: Bush didn't conspire with Iran to invade Iraq and then allow a Shiite regieme; the Israeli secret service didn't shoot Rabin; The FBI probably didn't kill Kennedy; and Lincoln was not shot because of theatre stunt mistake. The only one I can believe in is that Christopher Marlow was indeed killed by queen Elizabeth's agents rather than in a regular fight outside the pub, shortly after he was framed for treason, espionage, homosexuality and other crimes (the aactual framing letter exists in the British library, and is more convincing than the pentagon movie $:\$ ).

Broomie · #10 Post by **Broomie** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:05 pm

Btw I didn't post this to prove anything, I just wanted to show it to you people and see what you think.

1eyedParrot · #11 Post by **1eyedParrot** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:39 pm

Hahaha, what a crock of shit.

"The confiscated the videos tapes, they were never released."
Oh yes, because the FBI wouldn't want to collect any evidence at all.

"It sounded like a missile, not a plane."
In colorado a bunch of people called the police department saying they heard a large explosion. After some investigating it was found out that a fighter jet hit mach I causing a sonic boom. You still believe the average US citizen can distinguish between a missile and a plane sound?

"There was no wreckage! Where was the plane?"
The government can act very quickly sometimes, especially when it comes to their military headquarters. When did that person get there? How soon after the impact? Most likely what was left of the plane, which couldn't be much, was removed from the site and stuck in some warehouse for evidence pretty quickly.

Hahaha, I just debunked their entire arguement.

Blackthorne519 · #12 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:00 pm

Whatever happened that day in 2001, it still sucked. For everyone. But life goes on. Someday some bored, stoned kid will bitch because he has to read about the incident in his textbook during 8th period History class. And it will just be a blink of a memory for the rest of the people that heard about it from some great-grandparent of theirs.

Bt

Steffi Evenstar · #13 Post by **Steffi Evenstar** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:24 pm

in a lot of ways, it's already kinda stopped being real to me ... and i live not far from DC, i've passed by the Pentagon more times than i can count. i guess because it's talked about so much by so many people, and i hear a mention of it every night on the news, it's just kinda become this thing ... i'm not sure how to explain it, really. i was in DC last night for a concert at the Kennedy Center, and i didn't think twice about what day it was until the group, Take 6, performed this incredible acapella version of the Star Spangled Banner, something which wasn't in the program, and that was when it was like, wow, something big did happen on this day. but yeah ... i just feel it's become more of a symbol than anything else. i'll never forget that horrible day, i'll never forget how much i cried, worried, and prayed. but now, it seems like it was eons ago, and maybe that it wasn't even real.

sorry if i'm making no sense, i was up till 4, then had to get up at 7:30 and head off to church for the morning.

Klytos · #14 Post by **Klytos** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:20 am

What a crock of shit.

Quest For Glory Fan · #15 Post by **Quest For Glory Fan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:41 am

did that remind anyone else of micheal moores work?

Kurdt · #16 Post by **Kurdt** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:34 am

"There was no wreckage! Where was the plane?"
The government can act very quickly sometimes, especially when it comes to their military headquarters. When did that person get there? How soon after the impact? Most likely what was left of the plane, which couldn't be much, was removed from the site and stuck in some warehouse for evidence pretty quickly.

Okay, I don't care if you're Super-Ninja Warrior Man, there is absolutely no way in the world you're going to clear the wreckage of a Boeng 757, move it away to a warehouse for storage, and then leave no evidence of it ever being there in the first place all within the course of an hour. Believing something like that, you're just begging to be duped. The FBI loves people like that.

What you SHOULD have argued, was the simple thing: Every single one of those images could have been doctored very easily, and each of those quotes could've been faked. It isn't that hard.

As for whether or not the US planned the Pentagon strike, for them to have done that they wouldn't have had to have planned the WTC attack, but they would have had to have known of its existence beforehand. This Flash is supposed to "prove" the Democrats' and other Liberals' outcries that Bush himself knew of 9/11 and decided to let it happen to get America behind him. Then again, there are also people who believe that FDR, the great Democratic president himself, knew about Pearl Harbor. As they say, "the best way to get everyone behind your cause is to show them why it's bad to not support you."

That being said, I'm not a moron. I don't think there was any sort of "government conspiracy" to make 9/11 that much worse, but on the same token I trust my government as far as I can throw it. What actually annoys me more than anything is people who accuse me of either "not knowing what it felt like," "not being American," or "having no compassion" because I don't treat it as a giant thing that affected my life. I suffered just as much as any American did that day, and for anyone to take a "holier-than-thou" tone with me in that subject when I didn't even feel like living for a long time after that happened...well, I don't like it at all. My girlfriend, who's lived in New York half her life, tried to take that tone with me once, and I almost broke up with her.

So...yeah. It's still a touchy subject, but not in the way people think. In conclusion, don't blindly follow the government, but remember that nobody who lived through that day came out of it unaffected. We'll have no problems if you keep that in mind.

Gronagor · #17 Post by **Gronagor** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:42 am

Hah. And still Americans are blind to US-government propaganda. The rest of the world knows that the government (or a certain section of it) were involved with this whole thing...

--
I always wondered... protocol around the world is to have fighter-planes and helicopters in the air the moment something like this happens. (Yes... at that time they thought it was an accident, but it's protocol especially when a plane goes down in an urban area) 20 minutes passed before the second plane. They should have been able to stop the second plane since it was obviously quite a distance off course. I would love to hear what exactly was said when the planes' course-changes were picked up on radar.

Strange thing was that BBC news asked quite a few times, in the beginning, about the plane that crashed into the pentagon, but all of a sudden the question was dropped, and they never showed any remains.

--
PS: All respect to those who died and their families. I just feel the american public needs to hear everything. I don't see why everything should still remain a secret.

Thepal · #18 Post by **Thepal** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:54 am

One question. If the plane didn't hit the Pentagon, where did it go?

Remember, there was actually a flight. I find it much more likely that it hit the pentagon then it was abducted by aliens

And why would it mess up the lawn outside the pentagon? It didn't slide across the ground like those other pictures. It hit straight into the wall.

Daffi · #19 Post by **Daffi** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:21 am

I agree, and there's another thing that wasn't taken into account: what caused the twin towers to crash WASN'T the hit itself, but the fire caused by the explosion of the planes that were both fully fueled, having just taken off.
This explains not only the fire and smoke shots in the movie, bur also the fact that there weren't many remains. Even metal evaporates at a certain temperature. I'm not sure this is the case, as the firemen had more access and therefore dealt with the fire more quickly than at the WTC, but it does make more sense than alien abduction 0]
As for the "you can't understand if you're not American" line: I'm Israeli, and we tend to use it a lot. Until 9/11 it had a point, and perhaps we can't fully understand what it did to New Yorkers (just as they don't get what it is to fear getting on buses or even driving too close to them), but it doesn't mean we can't sympathize. So give it a rest.

Kurdt · #20 Post by **Kurdt** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:42 am

Well, I'm American myself, and for other Americans to tell me that I don't know what it felt like is just total bull. Every American suffered just as much as every other American did and to deny that fact is absolutely ridiculous.

Spikey · #21 Post by **Spikey** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:11 am

I think we all lost a lot that day. It hit home, and it still does. The world isn't the same anymore.