What the hell is this

Message

VampD3 · #26 Post by **VampD3** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:46 am

I don't care enough about what other people think of me to want to change what I do or say.

Its not what people think of you its what others are reading. I don't care what you sound like on here or who you are as to me youve always seemed nice, (not that that matters as you said you don't care what others think) but what I do care about is you posting bad language. You should change what you say, not because your bothered what others think but because your bothered what others read and how it may affend someone.

So as I was saying, on here its not just about being yourself, yes its always best to be yourself BUT not to such an extent where you may offend someone. We aren't talking about whether or not you care about what others think or about being yourself, all we are talking about is the fact that you should keep the language side of things to a minium and try not to be so much of "youself" if its not appropriate (sp?)

so why should I change the way I speak to please a minority of people?

And I doubt its just a minority of people, theres loads that aren't even registered on here that read things.

Skyshark · #27 Post by **Skyshark** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:54 am

I'll have to agree with everyone here on this. I mean, IRL, I tend to swear a little bit (but not excessively, obviously), but on here, I feel it's somewhat unnecessary (that and I usually can catch myself before I accidentally make a post with such language, unless I happen to be (rarely) really ticked off about something or at someone).

#28 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:03 pm

(clicks the delete button)

Parrot, I think we can agree on the fact that the last thing this discussion needs is another example of the very kind of thing I'm trying to tone down here. I got your point. Now let's hope you get mine. It's probably in your best interests to avoid giving me the impression that deleting this stuff isn't sufficiant as a diciplinary action. Consider this a serious warning.

1eyedParrot · #29 Post by **1eyedParrot** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:25 pm

I'll stop posting crude offensive insults against Zeus when he stops asking for them.

#30 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:32 pm

I don't think his post crossed the line, while yours most certainly did in terms of foulmouthedness. And I don't think he was the only one who thought your initial post wasn't very funny. (although most others just said so straight away instead of being slightly sarcastic like he was)

Angelus3K · #31 Post by **Angelus3K** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:34 pm

Parrot shouldnt you be busy at IA or something?

Surely you know its not in the best taste to swear on this forum so why bother.

Just get on with your life.

1eyedParrot · #32 Post by **1eyedParrot** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:06 pm

With the Malign behind Zeus's words, frequently directed at myself and Blackthorne, I find that his so-called clean language (which is an argument in itself) is more hurtful, despicable, and insulting than seeing a colloquial word for the act of sex, or an off color use of the word for feces.

Words are all about intent, and with the viciousness, acrimony and untasteful alacrity Zeus uses in his posts, I feel the need to defend myself, and also put a pontificating n'er-do-well in his place. All this person seems to do is stir up trouble, and I don't think that's very constructive.

So, in an attempt at humour and retaliation, the use of colorful English words happen to cross my vernacular from time to time. But what is more offensive: The word, or the odious person who doesn't use them, yet still spews the venom they may convey?

Alias · #33 Post by **Alias** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:08 pm

Why dont you have word sensores?

Blackthorne519 · #34 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:16 pm

I don't find the use of so called vulgar or four-letter words offensive at all. Language is about intent, and intent of emotions. Language just conveys emotions in a palatable way that all can understand. What I find offensive is euphemistic words and phrases to replace these so called words. The intent is still there, the spelling is just different. The intent is always what matters, and still between "Damn" and "Darn", "Shit" and "Crap", "Hell" and "Heck", I go red. People create these words to try and fool themselves that the others don't exist, but the greatest crime one can perpetrate on the human mind and the human experience is to try and change the world in such a veneer way; that's human vanity and pride coming before the actuallity of the world. The world is a gritty, dirty, unclean, beautiful, fun and attractive place. All in one. It is the perfect example of Yin-Yang, being that it is all things good and bad at once. One must learn to accept such things about the nature of life - and sometimes, colorful language is part of it. There is a time and place for it, and conversation amongst adults, or beings capable of adult thought, is a fine place for it. In this forum, we dicuss pregnancy and relationships, which is something that some people may find offensive. (I however, do not find it offensive at all. I think the Vamp and Angelus have made this place more real and open and honest. However, certain Bible-thumping folks may find an unwed pregnant girl to be more offensive that the word "douche") There is a fair amount of childeshness here, as well, along with the rebellious nature of humans. If you're told not to do something, sneaking in a bit here and there to defy the rules comes up as a convention. Supression of thought of any kind leads to rebels in the midst, but in a free environment, that kind of behavior peters out after the novelty of being able to say [GEORGE CARLIN'S SEVEN DIRTY WORDS HERE] wears off.

I am able to communicate on a level on English which does not include using "salty" language, but my choice as a human being is to use it in most of my day to day speech, as it is a part of living. It adds emphasis and punctuation to my speech in a way that most people can understand, without having to pepper my lexicon full of useless multi-syllabic words.

I just hate pretending that these words don't exist, and I hear excuses such as "This is a family site" and such. While completetly valid, it does fall into the hypocritical euphemistic area that I loathe so much. Like around the Sierra office (Hell, I'm sure even at Disney) there isn't language that may occasionally make a sailor blush. That is the way of human adults and that is the way of life. A Vulgarless Utpoia doesn't and never will exist, despite the efforts of the righteous to try and erase it from existance.

Bt

VampD3 · #35 Post by **VampD3** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:30 pm

Words are all about intent, and with the viciousness, acrimony and untasteful alacrity Zeus uses in his posts, I feel the need to defend myself

You canb defend yourself without being crude.

All I think is that yeah people can swear slightly on here as it does happen, but not to an extent of using really "strong" language.

I mean right now if my baby grew up and came to these forums I would want to feel safe that they weren't reading that sort of language until they were older. Yeah they may hear it but I think people should still be careful around here.

Its not too much to ask to tone down the language a bit. People find it offensive and yeah there is younger people who read these forums. There doesn't have to be a huge debate on life and each individual.

anathoth8 · #36 Post by **anathoth8** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:41 pm

That isn't exactly the point here. The point is that we are all guests here at this board, and certain rules have been established. By signing on to the board, we have each agreed to abide by the rules, whether we agree with them or not.

When you are out in public, talking to you pals or whatnot, different rules apply. Feel free to use whatever words you and your group are comfortable with in that situation. Here, the situation is different.

Suppose you were teaching a school class of six-year-olds. I think that most everyone here would agree that using such language would be inappropriate in that setting. (Just for the record, I think that many, if not all, of the "replacement" words would also be rather inappropriate.)

In short, it isn't an issue of whether or not you agree with the rule, it is that you have agreed to abide by it. If you do not wish to follow the rules here, then you will have to accept the consequences of that disobedience.

I, for one, appreciate this board for its comparatively short list of rules. I also appreciate the fact that the rules don't have to be minutely specific, in order to keep people from trying to circumvent them. We all know what the rule is intended for; we shouldn't have to be given a list of forbidden words to know which ones should not be used here.

In regards to 1eyedParrot's argument: I agree. I could fill a post with many well chosen, clean words and hurt someone to their very core. I choose not to do so, because it is rude. Still, I do feel that Zeus does bring up a good point here. While I understand that your comment was made in jest, I did think that it was unnecessary, especially considering the very nature of the discussion and Erpy's request. I do think that a certain degree of tact is required when dealing with such issues.

I have been somewhat disheartened recently in the gradual, but steady decline of stimulating conversation on this board. It seems that more and more, threads have skewed off into flame wars, rule breaking, and chastisement for these activities. Why don't we all take a step back, and remember that we are all just here to have a little fun, and talk with other people. Remember that the other members here are real people, just like yourself, and deserve the same amount of respect that you want from them. Remember that you never know who will read your post, so choose your words carefully.

Lastly, bravo to Erpy, Wolfgang, adeyke, and Navynuke for their diligent efforts in maintaining high standards for this board that are, unfortunately, lacking in so many other media in this world. It is a shame that people like yourselves are in such low supply these days. Were there more, the world would be a much friendlier, more wholesome place to live.

Blackthorne519 · #37 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:00 pm

anathoth8 wrote:That isn't exactly the point here. The point is that we are all guests here at this board, and certain rules have been established. By signing on to the board, we have each agreed to abide by the rules, whether we agree with them or not.

Given, of course we are guests and we know the rules. But should the rules ask a person to lessen themselves for the general comfort of an enitity that may not even exist? I can see such requests for the genral forum, where many fans of all ages go, or the game-specific forums. But this, the off-topic forum, is a bastion of conversation between mostly adults - who can deal with a certain amount of language.

anathoth8 wrote:When you are out in public, talking to you pals or whatnot, different rules apply. Feel free to use whatever words you and your group are comfortable with in that situation. Here, the situation is different.

Actually, I consider many people on these forums as pals, and I have made some great friendships on this board. Hence my use of traditional slang between friends at time. Although, one can look at my posts as see that I really do not swear all that often.

anathoth8 wrote:Suppose you were teaching a school class of six-year-olds. I think that most everyone here would agree that using such language would be inappropriate in that setting. (Just for the record, I think that many, if not all, of the "replacement" words would also be rather inappropriate.)

Of course. Being an Adult is making that judgement call. Like I said, most of the conversation here is between consenting adults, who know language and what to use. Using vulgar language is a responsibility, and using it in front of impressionable children who do not know how to use it properly, or in proper context is just uncouth.

anathoth8 wrote:In regards to 1eyedParrot's argument: I agree. I could fill a post with many well chosen, clean words and hurt someone to their very core. I choose not to do so, because it is rude. Still, I do feel that Zeus does bring up a good point here. While I understand that your comment was made in jest, I did think that it was unnecessary, especially considering the very nature of the discussion and Erpy's request. I do think that a certain degree of tact is required when dealing with such issues.

True. And tact was given later. Tersity and speed sometimes take precedent.

anathoth8 wrote:I have been somewhat disheartened recently in the gradual, but steady decline of stimulating conversation on this board. It seems that more and more, threads have skewed off into flame wars, rule breaking, and chastisement for these activities. Why don't we all take a step back, and remember that we are all just here to have a little fun, and talk with other people. Remember that the other members here are real people, just like yourself, and deserve the same amount of respect that you want from them. Remember that you never know who will read your post, so choose your words carefully.

Excuse me for a minute: BOO-FREAKING-HOO! I mean, seriously, who are you to judge what is stimulating conversation here? I mean, I don't consider a 20+ thread on PS2 and GameCube games stimulating conversation, but it doesn't mean that it's not to others. Nor short little threads about relationships woes, or bits about films and video games. We're not here to write the latest in a series of crticisms on "Faust" by Goethe or "Jenseits von Gut und Böse(Beyond Good and Evil)" by Neitzche. Although you do offer good advice about stepping back and remember to have fun, I find it a bit offensive to call out a lack of stimulating conversation. That's being a bit holier than thou.

anathoth8 wrote:Lastly, bravo to Erpy, Wolfgang, adeyke, and Navynuke for their diligent efforts in maintaining high standards for this board that are, unfortunately, lacking in so many other media in this world. It is a shame that people like yourselves are in such low supply these days. Were there more, the world would be a much friendlier, more wholesome place to live.

Yeah, good one Anathoth. I'm sure their buttcheeks are plenty chapped by now. Just add some more apple polishing to the collection.

I mean, seriously, all this ass-kissing of Epry, Wolfgang, adeyke and NavyNuke has me reeling. Now, I like these guys, and all of them post smartly, with humour and intelligence. I like that, sure. But the asskissing has got to stop. People just sound like fools. These guys are just like most of us: FANS. They know people like them. It's just getting redundant and annoying now!

Whew!

Bt

Alias · #38 Post by **Alias** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:00 pm

Well, I think people should just follow the rules and not act like teens going through a crisis. Lets all be sensible and but the flame throwers away and throw away the gas can. And about the ass kissing, the mod team is doing an amazing and painful job at managing these boards, so I think they deserve a bit of praise once in a while.

You see boys & girls all that said in 1 minutes writing, not a 100 page essay.

I really hate it when we come to arguments like this because when I give my thoughts & opinions people just point out that I'm wrong and they're right.

Fribbi · #39 Post by **Fribbi** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:35 pm

Just remember this, no more Ozzy Osbourne family's language here.

About that word "Fuck".

I have seen a lots of young kids in Iceland using that word without offending anyone but of course it could sometimes offend somebody who don't want to hear or see that word. But this is just a "normal" word to me. We can only blame the movie's and the music's about how strong that word is used now. We can never avoid that language anywhere. Your kids could see even this in school's walls, newspaper, internet, movies, and in MTV music videos and in videos games.

The word "fuck" is a word from anger and hates. So when you are using this word "Fuck" on anyone here he or she could be offended but when you are using this word "Fuck" in your sentence you are just anger about something you don't like.

So why do I sense a hates and anger here now? Is it because we are still in war with terroist, the weather and on our personal life. Yeah sure we are all tired of that but that is not a good reason why you should use that word. But if you have any reason why you have to use it explain about it here then so we can understand your thougths and your behavior.

Ok. Let's not get the evil words of darkness be stronger here now.

That word "Fuck" sure is a poison word in this Forums. So if you want to be dumb here and take the risk to get fired from this forum because it is in the rule that these word are not alowed here do it then and have a nice day and goodbye forever (maybe)!

I sure hope nobody is anger to me about how many I said the "f" word here.

VampD3 · #40 Post by **VampD3** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:09 pm

Why has this gone so far? People are now hurting and probably upsetting others for no reason!!

I think everyone should just drop it, Swearing of such an extent isn't allowed on these forums so lets all of us just respect that those rules are there for a reason wether anyone likes it or not or even understands it.

And anathoth I really hope your not offended by any of this your post and how you feel are respected totally by ALL of us and Blackthorne so are yours but I don't think anyone should be too harsh.

So lets just get on with things.

anathoth8 · #41 Post by **anathoth8** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:11 pm

[quote tree snipped]

I guarantee you that Erpy is an entity that does exist. Since he has expressed that this language should not be used here, that seems like enought reason not to use it.

Besides that, you don't know who might be here "listening" to this conversation right now. Just because it is "mostly adults" who post doesn't mean that this is all that is reading.

You are absolutely right that what is stimulating to some is not so to others. That wasn't my point. You want an example of conversation going downhill? Take a look at this thread. A question was asked about future plans, that could have elicited some interesting conversation, and your response was "Take a dump." I challenge you to tell me exactly who was stimulated by that response!

Personally, I believe in giving praise where praise is due. If you don't, more power to you. As someone who tries to live my own life by high standards, I appreciate it when I find others doing the same.

Zeus · #42 Post by **Zeus** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:13 pm

Dear parrot,

anathoth8 hit the point : the forums have some rules and you just have to obey them. You can swear in your forum as much as you want, but here other people decide for the rules. If you find them too edgeless or unseemly you have the option to avoid posting here. Off topic does not mean : swear here. It means what it says regarding the choice of subjects. Yes moderators are just fans like us. They are not Generals of the army.But they were assigned the task of being the moderators by AGDs. So you have to play with their rules.

You should not use swearing to people who do not know or did not gave you the right to speak to them in such a way.Vamp's opinion was very serious as well. I would not like to use censor programmes (for my niece) and block game forums which are 'supposed' to be for all ages, because there are some people who use bad language here!

Parrot you show a lot of bitterness to a person that just said that you were not funny. You think that i spit venom because i wrote a couple of lines describing my personal opinion for people who use excessive swearing.A personal opinion which i did not imposed it to anyone.If so, then the words (malign, hurtful, despicable, and viciousness,acrimony untasteful alacrity,odious !!!!!!!) you used for me , if not venom what are they ?!
Could you name them as objective criticism? I bet not...

Maybe you should control your nerves and avoid showing wrath when other people critique you. No one wants to hurt you. You should not feel that you must 'defend' yourself. Calm down...

Angelus3K · #43 Post by **Angelus3K** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:19 pm

I think just to lighten the mood Erpy should gather all the member names of this forum and do a random IP BAN on 33% of us.

That'll show ya!!

On a serious note, this is getting boring. This is exactly the reason why people like Vildern left because people arent respecting the nature of this place, which is a relaxing fun place, it was once, it can be again.

VampD3 · #44 Post by **VampD3** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:21 pm

Vamp's opinion was very serious as well. I would not like to use censor programmes (for my niece) and block game forums which are 'supposed' to be for all ages, because there are some people who use bad language here!

Thanks, I know with me having a baby on the way and I know one day it too will be on the net like Angelus surfing away I really would hate to have to go through censoring things and being worried that on user friendly forums like this that hard swearing would be used. I know it happens at times and on other forums but I would just like to feel safe that its not happening here etc. I'm sre you can understand.

Zeus · #45 Post by **Zeus** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:37 pm

Yes, of course i understand. Some years ago , before deciding to use firewalls and ad blockers,it was unbelievable what my eyes could see. You opened a page with cars,music and pop ups with adult content were activated.You could not let a child to use internet under these circumstances! These times i used surfwatch which did a very good job.
Now i use zonealarm which has integrated an ad blocker and adult filters, so i can feel 99% safe for the niece.

Alias · #46 Post by **Alias** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:42 pm

How I love to spend an hour a day reading CRAP like this. Just shut up and get on with your life. Everyone here has at least done one thing wrong, lets just say this:

You may not swear at these forums as stated in the rules.
Please dont let this put you off, just have some self control.
Good day and enjoy posting at the AGDI forum.

Can we drop it now?

My feelings:

KKuhlman · #47 Post by **KKuhlman** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:50 pm

In all simplicity, just use your brains a bit before posting. Its enough to keep those posts clean. Atleast works for me, and I swear more than enough normally..

#48 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:01 pm

Funny you should mention the short list of rules, Anathoth. That's basically because we started out as a very small community lead by the AGDs who wanted to give a few fans the opportunity to report bugs and give some feedback. We never guessed it would grow so large. Had this been the case, we'd probably made a more extensive TOS page. It's simply a lot easier to point someone to a TOS-entry they violated than hold a page-long debate with someone on why we don't want certain things to happen. We consider AGDI a learning experience in many ways and upholding a community is one of them.

While it's interesting to see defensive arguments in favor of the use of "salty" language, the whole thing is also a moot point here.

We don't endorse the use of guttertalk. Plain and simple. Not only does it look cheap, it also looks unprofessional. We wish to keep a certain image and trashtalk doesn't fit into that.

I know kids hear this stuff on primetime television all the time, but unlike those TV producers, WE don't get paid tons of money to feed them that garbage, so I see no reason to do so when we're not getting at least some slight monetary compensation for it.

The reasoning that it's between consenting adults is not appropriate for a place where everyone can read what you say, it's more suitable for IM, mail or direct conversations. You don't know who reads it, so stating nobody's going to cringe at it is a bit too assuming. (obviously, not everybody agrees)

The reasoning that it's in someone's nature to use coarse language and that those tendencies should never be surpressed, nor should one bother to hold back oneself, is untrue as well. If you work in a store/bank, try swapping "salty" phrases with your collegue while customers are around and attempt to get off the boss' hook with the story BT posted. Chances are, he'll roll his eyes before kicking you onto the street, but that's about all the difference it's gonna make. Obviously, different environments require one to adapt oneself and this forum is one of them. There's nothing Robin Hood like in rebelling against it, it just makes life harder for others here, myself included.

That said, I feel the point of this thread has been made. I expect people to take the points I made here to heart. Everybody here is intelligent enough to express themselves without having to rely on trash talk.

Alias · #49 Post by **Alias** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:11 pm

Thank you erpy, well said.

Blackthorne519 · #50 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:24 pm

I guess I was just having a discussion on the use of blue language. Which was stimulating to a degree. Whether or not it's acceptable here REALLY has no bearing. It's more or less just a discussion. If the rules say "No swearing/vulgar language" then one shouldn't use them. However, having a discussion debating the validity of that rule isn't against any rule. It's just a conversation. If you don't have anything to add to it, don't get all twisted.

And if kids want to see stuff, they're going to see it. Teach them how to deal with it. Responsibly. Because pretending it's not there is a silently agreeing and allowing it. You can never pretend something IS NOT there. That only leads to irresponsible use and behavior, in private, that leads to later public debauchary.

I thought this was an interesting debate, for sure. Sometimes in debates tempers flare, sure. But it makes for an interesting dialogue.

Also, as far as supreme Euphemism goes, I think professionals use coarse language more often than anyone else. How weird is it to say that it looks unprofessional to use it? Seriously. Every office setting, of a corporation I've been around, I can hear swearing used in everyday conversation. I just don't like pretending it doesn't exist. I won't pepper every other word with some variation of a word, but I won't always censor myself.

Bt