AGDInteractive - Sierra Adventure Game Remakes Forum

 QFG2: Communication Poll
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Author:  indy100 [ Mon Dec 16, 2002 4:31 am ]
Post subject:  What kind of dialouqe!

Guys-i suggest you to do it like in QFG3,4!Of course it woud be good thing to let player chose what type of talk he wants ,but if you don't want to work on it just place the dialoque like in QFG3,4!It'll make the game playable for people who don't like/can handle with such type of dialouqe!If it has to be remake so make it like one of new games(not talking about graphics of course)!!!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START >D --><img src= ALT=" >D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Author:  Aelfina [ Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: QFG2: Communication Poll

I don't even know why this is such a big thread. How much can you argue about it? If you want the game to be text based, play the original. I was under the impression the whole point of this project is to make the game user friendly and thus more fun. I like the way sierra remade the first game, and how they made the later games (excluding 5 of course <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :x --><img src= ALT=":x"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ) The leisure suit larry 7 interface was cool, but it just seems like too much work for revamping a game. <p>I mock you with my monkey pants!</p><i></i>

Author:  Almirena [ Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: QFG2: Communication Poll

Something that comes to mind...<br><br>Unfortunately, it's a sad reality that most "new" players of computer games today are not interested in adventure games (like KQ or SQ), or a combination of rp and adventure (such as QfG). The games one can buy TODAY, that are being newly designed and marketed, are shoot-em-ups or design-your-own-war/planet/world/city etc. They're low on puzzle content, low on adventure, and high on "levelling up" and killing monsters. In the QfG games, one tries to maximise one's stats in order to complete the game (if you're not powerful enough, you won't be able to kill the [insert villain or monster here]; if you're not skilled enough in climbing, you won't get over walls, etc...) But in a game like Diablo 2 (okay, I admit I'm playing it at the moment - the main fun of it being that I'm playing online so I can make sassy comments to the friend with whom I'm playing, while we whip Mephisto's ego and life yet again...), the whole POINT is to level up, or so it seems. How much of the game do you spend killing the highest-experience-garnering monsters? Most of it. You even go back again and again to the places which are considered "levelling fields".<br><br>Anyway, my point is that there's little chance of appealing to most computer game players today with whatever you do with your remake. It's not going to outdo "Demon Death Count: The Second Skin Expanded Version with MORE monsters! More blood! More body parts! Incredible 3-D graphics! Breakthrough graphics! More than stereo sound! FEEL the blood! SMELL it! Optional scent-drive may be installed to maximise your fun!"<br><br>This remake will mostly appeal to people who already love these games. That being the case, I'll look forward to a remake which appeals to those players. I'm definitely one of them - I fell in love with Space Quest 1 when I first saw it, and that sweet innocent first love has remained with me ever since. It's affected what computer games I'll play... and what I consider important in a computer game. Frankly, I don't care about the latest in graphics and so on, if they come at the expense of the game's story and puzzles. It would be nice to have both, but I'd rather play KQ6 than KQ8 - no matter the difference in graphics. I'd rather play KQ1 than KQ8, for that matter.<br><br>The team here is doing a great job!<br><br>- Almirena <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><p><img border="0"<br>src="" width="201"<br>height="216"></p><br><br>Hast thou couragious fire to thaw the ice of frozen North discoveries? and thrise Colder than Salamanders, like divine Children in th'oven ...</p><i></i>

Author:  The Knight [ Thu Jan 16, 2003 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Tough choice......................................

This is a tough issue.<br>On the one hand, you've got a players choice at to what to say/type.<br>On the other hand, you've got something that anyone will be able to use and handle without to much difficulty.<br> <p>The Knight<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>

Author:  glassminotaur [ Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Don't like just cursor

A cursor interface takes away too much of the guesswork. <p></p><i></i>

Author:  Xorcist [ Thu Jan 16, 2003 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Think people think...

If you read this entire post from the start, you would see that statement is flawed. There are other factors the game can use to increase the "guesswork" while keeping a point n' click dialog interface. Notoriety based dialogs, an eavesdropping feature for the thief (maybe even a bribe feature), dialogs based on external "flagged" events, and selective isolated branches are just some of the ways to accomplish this.<br><br>Notoriety should have played a bigger part in QFG2 anyways. Depending on how often you shop a particular vendor or what amazing tasks you've accomplished different people will react differently to you (especially as they get to "know" you), just as they would in real life. I might buy a lot of rations, each daily visit and purchase might open up some new dialogs, or only if I spend enough money, or enough time has pasted (and I've visited the vendor at least 10 times), or whatever else. The fact is you can base the game not on what questions need to be asked and how far you can drill for information, but rather how people react to you on a personal level. Your actions then become your pathway to enlightenment.<br><br>And why not allow the thief to eavesdrop and bribe or "hide in the shadows", I mean he should be pretty damn good at those things don't you think. Obviously his notoriety is going to be low as most of his actions are dishonorable. So he'll need to find other ways to obtain information. He'll most likely hang out in the dingier parts of town, and end up paying for a lot of what the other characters could get for free.<br><br>Gabriel Knight used external "flagged" events to trigger changes in dialog topics, and it was an amazing game. You can't ask someone about something that has never happened or about an item/person/thing you've never encountered or heard about before. How about "showing" and item to someone? You've found a poisoned dagger, topics about that dagger won't appear unless you physically show the dagger to the person you want to ask about it. Once again it involves more interaction on your part, not just asking asking asking as most text parser interfaces are set up to do.<br><br>Selective Isolated Branches, for those that don't know, allow a certain discussion topic to be started and followed through, but don't allow you to return to the main selection window. People might start a conversation with you, but they aren't going to spend their lives talking to you (in other words you can't ask every one everything). You then decide what topic is most important to you at that point in time, rather than running through every single topic just to open up more branches. <p></p><i></i>

Author:  adeyke [ Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Hmmm...

I think that, though those are good ideas, they don't really fit QfG2. The first time you play, I tried to ask everyone about everything. After the first time, I already knew the plot and then just asked about things I, as player, was interested about, to see what the different characters know about the different things. So IMHO those ideas just have much more complexity than the game needs. <p></p><i></i>

Author:  Renodox [ Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My opinion, for what it's worth

I prefer the Point and Click style. Yes, it's less challenging but most of the sierra games were made in that style after they had the point and click system anyway. The problem that I see with the Typing system is that you usually have to word things JUST RIGHT. It's like in Kq 3. It took me FOREVER to get the wording right to find the key on top of the closet. <p></p><i></i>

Author:  adeyke [ Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Hmmm...

This <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>is</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> just about the communication, though. I think it only really applies to the QfG series (at least, I think they're the only one with the complex communication system). It's true that all QfG games other than the original 1 and 2 have a point-and-click system for that, but that doesn't necessarily make it good. <p></p><i></i>

Author:  Renodox [ Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Possibilities

I read your downsides to the point and click thing and I dissagree. It's like with the telling Khaveen to get his sword or refusing to kill the guard. All you have to do with the Guard is put up a message asking "Kill him?" then give options "No" or "Yes." Then with the Khaveen thing, you could either click the sword on Khaveen or his sword.<br><br>The only bad thing would be that you can't say "No." When Khaveen asks you "Do I make myself clear?!" That was the best line if you ask me. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src= ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Author:  The Knight [ Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  I don't...................................

You didn't make your post clear. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src= ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src= ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src= ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p>The Knight<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>

Author:  deltamatrix [ Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  f*** the typing system

If you are even thinking about using the old typing system then you need help<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src= ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src= ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Author:  Renodox [ Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: f*** the typing system

Who me? The downsides to using point and click said that you cannot refuse to kill the man in EOF or tell Khaveen to pick up his sword in the final showdown. Therefore you couldn't become a paladin or it'd at least become harder. I dissagree saying that it just needs to have an option window come up at a specific moment. Like in EOF when you're told to kill the guard a window pops up saying "Kill Him?" then have a "YES" button and a "NO" button. That's all.<br><br>As for the "Do I make myself clear?" question, Khaveen says this to you when you first take the caravan to Rasier. He says that they have no need for any stinking heroes in Rasier then says, "Do I make myself clear?" Experemimentally, I said "No." Then he goes, "Oh a wise guy, eh?!" <p></p><i></i>

Author:  Wolfgang Abenteuer [ Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Optional dialogue responses

With regards to refusing to kill Walid (the EOF fighter) or letting Khaveen pick up his sword, that would be very easy to do. Rather than force a window to pop up on the screen saying "Yes or No", they could just start a timer (say, 5 seconds) once the hero defeats/disarms the character. If the hero does nothing and the timer expires, he automatically lets the character live. Alternatively, they could allow the player to switch to the TALK icon and then click it on himself (like they would do "Tell about" or "Say") and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>then</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> bring up the option to kill/not kill. Or they could let the player switch to the sword and click on the enemy to kill him.<br><br>Same thing with Khaveen's "Do I make myself clear?" question. Click on the hero to bring up the "Yes/No" window. It wouldn't be any easier than simply typing "Yes" or "No", at least it doesn't seem that way to me. Since there are only two choices, there wouldn't be anything more difficult about typing "Yes" or "No" as there would be clicking it in a window.<br><br>~Wolfgang <p></p><i></i>

Author:  deltamatrix [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  f*ck the text parser

It is inevitable that we must avoid that horrible old system because its too old. I'd be extremely disappointed with Tierra if they do it with the text parser.<br><br>Besides, KQ2VGA is very very different from KQ2.<br><br>This can be the new feature for QFG2 in QFG2VGA as well as replacing that weird alley system. If KQ3 is remade by Tierra for example and there are very little changes to the original then some of us may be quite disappointed now coz we may come to expect this for Tierra now. They have raised their own standards.<br><br>QFG2 plot doesn't really extending but it would be cool if it was a bit.<br><br>I'd like to see WIT extended!!! Perhaps an extra mission would be cool to fill in the time gaps.<br><br>QFG2 is my favourite and I can't wait for QFG2VGA <p></p><i></i>

Author:  deltamatrix [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  wait a MINUTE

I've reconsidered<br><br>We could get the typing system for when you have to answer aziza's question for the first time. EG. You type 'keapon laffin' <p></p><i></i>

Author:  adeyke [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Hmmm...

The start of WIT, Aziza's door, telling your name to the astrologer and the door in the Trials are all cases where a mouse interface would be less fitting than a parser. I guess it's possible to either make a guess box like for Nik's name in KQ1VGA or have a list of possible choices like the gargoyle in QfG1VGA, provided they're funny and give funny responses <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src= ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . <p></p><i></i>

Author:  The Knight [ Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  That whould.............................................

That could work just fine with me. It wouldn't be too hard. <p>The Knight<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>

Author:  Ralliorl [ Mon Jan 27, 2003 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  did someone say.. PARSER??!!

Ok, first of all the parser is EVIL!!!!<br><br>I had recurring nightmares over gameplay issues concerning WHAT DO I TYPE??!!<br><br>Admittedly, most of these problems were as much to do with the weak 16 colors as the parser itself, (If you didnt know *like me* that cupid has a bow and arrow in KQ4 for instance, u have NO HOPE of working out the gold blob he drops) and in effect most of these problems would probably be resolved with the upgrade to 256 graphics, but the parser is still a dated tool.<br><br>The fact that most people who would play this game prefer the superior efficiency of the point-n-click system over the tedious parser (for them) cannot be doubted. <br>Its 68% for point-click at time of posting, and that figure should be considered biased towards parser format, as doubtless there are alot of old school adventurers here :-] The majority of people who will play this game however, will probably not even ever post here, but its obvious sierra made the conversion to p&c over the parser for a reason, and that reason is it appeals to a wider audience. I cannot see that the current potential pool of adventure gamers would be much different.<br><br>QfG3 and 4 were, in my opinion, outstanding games in their own right. Of course we cannot compare them to what their parser counterparts might have been, but my own opinion was that they were brilliant games, so why change a successful format?<br><br>Many of the arguments for the parser format has been deeper immersion into the game, and of course, the unforgettable easter eggs. When you think about the deep immersion effect of the parser, it is really a two-edged sword. On one hand, Die-hard qfg fans wouldnt be caught without it, but on the other hand, the much greater majority of people will find it very tedious. I consider myself a big qfg fan, and even i found the parser system very tedious after a while. For people who type slower, i guess the inefficiency of the parser system can only rise exponentially. One of the aims of Tierra has undoubtedly to be not only the preservation of the old adventure game classics in the minds of the original's hardcore fans, but also to bring in new sheep to the flock. To that effect, it would be an uncontestable fact that the point-n-click system will achieve more success. <br><br>With the easter eggs, while they are a part of the heart and soul of the entire qg2 series, they are also mainly *text based*. Hence, if the eggs are just copied straight to the remake, althought it might put a warm feeling down the hearts of the hardcore fans, really doesnt add anything extra that might warrant putting all communication in parser mode. I agree with the people who say that if you want the original easter eggs, you should play the original game. Now Tierra is not exactly a bad easter egg maker themselves (ROFL @ Larry in KQ1VGA), so my challenge would be to Tierra to come up with new, refreshing and high quality easter eggs that would amuse both the oldschool fans and the people who did not play the original!<br><br>I find that Tierra did an excellent job with the point and click system in their King's quest remakes, so I have firm belief it would succeed equally, if not better, in qfg2vga. Of course, it is always going to be Tierra's final decision, and the dilemma must be difficult in choosing to appease the demands of the dangerous oldschool fans or to go with the unvoiced majority :-] <br>Either way, thumbs up Tierra!<br><br>-Just 2 cents from a newcomer :-] <p></p><i></i>

Author:  The Knight [ Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  I don't.........................................

It dosen't matter to me wether its Parser or not. I can use both just fine. It would be cool if 2 versions were released, one Parser, the other one without any parser. But, that probably isn't very practical. <p>The Knight<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>

Author:  Almirena [ Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Well...

I enjoy being creative with parser...<br><br>My own preference would be for a combination, so that you get the option of typing in commands that are a little unusual, but can get through the game just using point-and-click.<br><br>However, I suspect that would be too complicated, really like creating two different games. <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><p><img border="0"<br>src="" width="201"<br>height="216"></p><br><br>Hast thou couragious fire to thaw the ice of frozen North discoveries? and thrise Colder than Salamanders, like divine Children in th'oven ...</p><i></i>

Author:  rharpe [ Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Option A: Text Parser for communication!

My vote is for the classic text parser for communication! <br><br>"OPTION A" <p></p><i></i>

Author:  MuzlakOofmay [ Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Option A: Text Parser for communication!

I voted parser. Reason is, I'm spoiled by p+c. I want to get out of that spoilyness with QFG2, so I can play other games that I haven't yet, that are parser based games. But make sure to have fullscreen dialogue pics. <p><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="" target="top"><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>

Author:  The Knight [ Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  So........................................................

So has the decision on wether to go with parser or other the dialouge menu been made yet? <p>The Knight<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>

Author:  Erpy [ Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So......................................................

I think we know what most people want by now, hence the reason why this poll has been unsticked. Future events are now beyond your control.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src=""/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>

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