Not religious by any means, however...

[FatherGhostface]

... (and maybe it's just me) but for some reason I could not help but see the whole story between the Counts and the Church as a slam against religion. I mean from MY perspective, it came off/it implied that religion was a inconvenience and a weight that would hold someone back from becoming a thriving educated person in society. Especially since the monks/church were depicted as the antagonists in the story. Perhaps it was to break away from the stereotype that the undead is evil and the religious folk are always the 'good guys' or simply to make the story more interesting, I don't know. I just got a strong impression that it was a slam against religion, because I don't believe that religion could hold someone back from 'moving forward'. I know I'm treading into dangerous territory by bringing up the subjects of Religion and Science, especially in a GAMING forum, I am not religious in anyway, I'm not Atheist either. I don't know what I am, just to clarify that I was not offended by this story but more curious about the motivation that created this story in the first place.

[Erpy]

I don't really think it was intended as a slam. In medieval times, in which the KQ series more or less takes place, the disposition of keeping the commoners common and only the clergy (and nobility) educated was very much how things were.

[DrJones]

I think it also was changed to make it more appealing to the roleplayers of World of Darkness; a secondary reason was to make it different from the way it was in the original King's Quest II. Same happens with the lady that lost the nightingale, hehe.

My point of view is that the book telling the story of the clergy is indeed a slam against religion, because it's written by a noble.

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

Ah, religion! The cause of and (purported) cure to all of humanity's problems. Believe me, if the game was intending to take swing, you'd have known about it, because it would have knocked religion's teeth all over the floor!

Having said that, I think people play games, listen to music, and watch movies to be entertained and not to have subliminal political or religious (or anti-religious for that matter) messages forced upon them. People want to relax and escape from all that nonsense when they're looking to be entertained. So, while I personally think that religion is the longest running, most burdensome, loathsome, and costly scam that the world has ever been afflicted by, I'm not about to go all "Green Day" and put THAT into an entertainment product, expecting it to change anyone's mind. Entertainment should be enjoyable by anyone without turning them off the game/music/movie. (The only exception being if the entertainment is specifically meant to be about that subject.)

As Erpy mentioned, in the case of King's Quest II, the religious aspects are merely based on Christianity throughout Medieval history. Nothing more than that.

[FatherGhostface]

Oky doky. Just wanted some clarification, though I was pretty much assured that what I was speculating wasn't the case at all. I apologize if I offended you.

[MusicallyInspired]

Ah, religion! The cause of and (purported) cure to all of humanity's problems. Believe me, if the game was intending to take swing, you'd have known about it, because it would have knocked religion's teeth all over the floor!

...So, while I personally think that religion is the longest running, most burdensome, loathsome, and costly scam that the world has ever been afflicted by,...

I love how atheists can come in here and say any crap they want about Christianity but when a Christian comes on to defend their beliefs or correct misconceptions or (God-forbid, parden the pun) share their own opinions the thread gets locked (it's happened before). I can't stand double standards. If you're going to make a rule on these forums to not have conversations of a religious nature of any kind then follow it yourself and don't instigate them.

As Erpy mentioned, in the case of King's Quest II, the religious aspects are merely based on Christianity throughout Medieval history. Nothing more than that.

Catholicism, NOT Christianity. Catholicisim is anything BUT Christianity. Christianity itself was persucuted by the Catholic Church. Not to turn this into a debate or anything, just voicing my opinion...

...and thread lock in 3...2....1....

[Anonymous Game Creator 2]

Religion can be discussed, just not preached. I don't think such conversations are productive, however, and I only pointed out my own position on the matter in regards to how it does (or doesn't) affect the game content. If such a thread gets locked, it's usually only if it turns into a flame war, not because one viewpoint is favoured over the other.

If anything King's Quest II's plot actually pays mild respect to Christianity/Catholicism/whatever other offshoot you want to call it. In the ritual scene with the misplaced crucifix, clicking the hand on it mentions that Graham would like to see it restored to its rightful position within the church. The Count also mentions that the monks' minds became warped by the Spirits of the Wild, and that they "do not represent their fellow brethren well." Again, religion isn't something I'd ever personally defend, but these are Graham's own inclinations and mindset within the confines of the plot.

One person told us that he stopped playing King's Quest II because he felt that it cast his religion in a negative light. On the other hand, an atheist also contacted us to tell us he was disgusted that we even kept the religious aspects in the game and pandered to Christians. Neither is true. The game maintains a neutral stance, using religious elements ONLY a plot device. It does not try to push any agenda.

[DrJones]

As of lately, I've found more and more of those "unholy" people to whom just the idea of a crucifix or seeing a monk make them shudder in horror and try to object/censor them. It's quite weird, actually. I've heard that many at the freemasonry act this way, which would explain also why our openly masón prime minister has opened a crusade against sacred symbols (crucifixes) even in religious schools.

He is also against forcing muslims to attend school without veil, for "respect to their religion". So he has to be either a moron or a vampire.

Edit: Just noticed the irony in "crusading" against religion.

[MusicallyInspired]

I never mentioned anything about the game. I think the game is great. I don't think it preaches one way or the other like you stated. The twist in how the vampires were good and the Church was bad was especially intriguing. I don't think it casts Christianity in a bad light at all. You can see this when you read the Monk's journal and how he started off patient but then the spirits of the woods or whatever drove him crazy and he lost his patience...showing that the motive had nothing to do with religion at all anyway. Wookie is indeed a talented writer.

But you did lock a thread about religion a few years ago and there was no flaming at all. Actually the conversation was pretty much between Christians only, IIRC. You locked it and asked to take such religious discussions to PMs or email because the forums have nothing to do with religion. It wasn't even a heated discussion. If we can't even discuss anything than you shouldn't make any posts about your opinions either along with everybody else. I'm just trying to keep it the same on both sides. All I want is fairness.

Anyway, I've made my point so I won't derail the thread further.

[FatherGhostface]

Uh oh...what have I started???

[Brainiac]

Uh oh...what have I started???

A flame that shall rival any in the real world.

I have opinions of my own and a somewhat unique perspective due to attending a Jesuit high school despite not being Catholic, but I think I'll restrain myself. As to the game, I agree that there is really nothing worth reacting to in KQ2+ save perhaps by those of more extreme mindsets.