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 Post subject: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahead)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:28 am 
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I would first like to commemorate you on your wonderful remake of a game that I had played and discarded several decades ago. Unfortunately then I was too young to have money and the disks I gotten had some kind of bug in them so that the game kept crashing. Though a tribute to the group that originally designed KQ series... I never forgot the countless hours I spent slaving over the puzzles. And how many times I thought swimming out to sea was the answer... Roberta... you have no idea how many times I drowned. I wish that something like "Silly Graham you are not a fish, only fishes belong in the sea" was in there. Oh well... (Was there ever a tree house, that you climbed up a tree to get to? I feel like I am hallucinating that this was in the game.) The game left an impression so much so that I wanted to play it again so I could finish the game once and for all, 25 years later.

I think the KQ2 remake was well thought through and probably flows much better with the overall series. Too bad, it looks like to play the other titles I will have to resort to some archaic technology? Maybe I should keep my old pentium? hah.


Although the new KQ2 story line was well thought through. The game itself had a few areas that I feel could be improved. To remove frustration I sought out the walk through in two instances.
-- 1. The creation of the emerald and the finding of the workbench. (snake relationship)
-- 2. The climbing up the bridge at the end of the stone collection phase.


#1 For some reason I precision clicked on both the book and the candles and the flask but did not click at all on the workbench that all are on. So I completely missed the screen that shows them all in large form. And for the life of me couldn't figure out where to find a suitable place to mix the ingredients. Hagatha's cave was no longer accessible nor was the cottage. I remembered that I had the crystal from the beginning so that wasn't and issue, just a really good puzzle. Nor was the yellow flower or feather or blue item. (sapphire or water gem were candidates)

As the game requires one to use precision clicking in more then a few different areas, one should not be penalized by doing so in this case. I recommend you add a hitbox for the flask so that it can be precision clicked on as it is very noticeable on the workbench. Allow it to either show the bench up close or ask you to get closer to inspect it first before showing the bench up close. (this would give 2 pathways to the large screen with bench) Once seen the large screen makes it very apparent in what to do.

Now for the second part... where in the game is it discussed or hinted at that the snake is an enchanted horse? I could eventually find the writing on the wall and the bridal either by mistake or persistence... The next thought would then logically lead me back to the village and Mr. Ed. Who could care less and rather be left alone to eat his flowers.

Where then? Why the snake? The only thought would be that I try the gem on everything I could find in the game... which I doubt would be productive towards fun and more toward laboring. My point being is that naturally, snakes can be found in rocky crevasses. So there is nothing out of place by the snake on the mountain top. What did I miss? I rather feel that this area should have a second look for game flow...


#2 The hitbox for the climb up the broken bridge/dwarf scene is very close by Graham so that when I click on the top of the bridge (the location I want Graham to climb to) I get no response. This could be a MAC version issue?

I knew the right action, but after clicking on a presumably correct area, I didn't receive feedback to encourage me to keep trying even if I had to die 50 times first. Eventually I chose to look at the walk through and a quick word query gave me the answer. "Climb the bridge." is all I needed to read. So I went back and started clicking all over to see where the hitbox was.

Why not add a second hit box that says "You cannot reach that far away" so that at least I am encouraged to keep trying, and this time closer to Graham.
------------------------------------------------

Beyond that, everything else in the game was workable.

I didn't think to go south in the swamp (the only actual open path) until I got the clue in the church which told me to go south twice to start. (Wasn't the swamp maze in the original KQ2? )

I unfortunately read the part about the sword and the crystal when looking for the place to cook the emerald. But I did remember that I had a crystal I just forgot it was in the description of the sword that I read it. (would have eventually looked at every item in my inventory and solved this)

The choices for the 3 visions sequences were a bit off in that it isn't totally clear what is implied by each. Action statements might be a better way to run those.

Some of the puzzles might be a greater challenge to the younger crowd, but its better to leave them in and let the kids grow much needed brain power.


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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahead)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:04 am
Posts: 61
First, a couple of random comments and answers:

When I originally played KQ2 in the 80s, I recall trying to get Graham to dive into the ocean. We knew that King Neptune was down there (it showed it on the back of the box, I believe). And Graham knew how to dive in KQ1, so why couldn't he dive now?!

The tree house you are thinking of might be the bandits' hideout in KQ3.

No, the swamp puzzle wasn't in the original KQ2. But it is a clever puzzle. Somewhat similar to one of the puzzles in the Thieves Guild in QFG4.

If you are looking at replaying the old games, DOSBox is your friend. It has proved to be a great utility to properly play old games. Even some games like Quest For Glory 3 worked beautifully under DOSBox (and no boot floppy needed). Once one of my friends learned about DOSBox, he has been showing his kids the old Sierra classics.

The biggest trouble I had with creating the enchanted emerald was finding a clear crystal.

I agree with the problem trying to climb the broken bridge. I died a couple of times trying to find the proper area to click on. I kept trying to click on the bridge to climb it, then click on the frayed rope, etc, etc. I finally clicked on the little outcropping of land, and then Graham finally climbed the bridge. I died numerous times during the entire bridge sequence, but I did solve it without needing assistance. However, finding the correct spot to use the knife was also a frustrating game of Find-the-Pixel.

-------------------------------

Overall, KQ2+ was one of the most enthralling, addicting, and fun games I've played since The Longest Journey or Quest For Glory 4. AGD did an amazing job with recreating a simple game from my childhood and expanded it into a great adventure game. It took a couple of days to go through the game, and once I had finished it, there was a real sense of accomplishment and satisfaction of finishing a well told story.

I tend to forgive one "well, that's stupid"-type puzzle per adventure game, but any more than that and perhaps the designers didn't think out the puzzle very well. However, I don't recall any such completely over-the-top puzzles in KQ2+. I would say that most of the new puzzles were easy enough to solve without too much trouble. The only times where I really got hung up was when I was missing an item and couldn't proceed. Even the arcade sequence wasn't too difficult (much easier than the skimmer sequence in Space Quest 1).

The spell casting sequence was interesting, and I'm curious to see if the spell casting in KQ3 will be similar.

Overall, I would say that there were only a few minor quibbles I had with the game.

1) Some of the voice acting was somewhat annoying (Possum, comes to mind) and King Graham's voice sounded a little echo-y (perhaps due to the original recording?). But considering the budget for this game (or lack thereof), that there are any voices at all is a great sign of trying to make a very polished and fun game. I'm still amazed that Josh Mandel (sp?) has done the voices for King Graham in several of these indie KQ games.

2) A couple of items were a little difficult to find or pick out, such as the reed, the fishing net (looked like seaweed), and the clear crystal. Not being able to find a few items got me stuck a few times, but at least I didn't encounter any dead-end problems with this and being forced to go back to an earlier saved game.

3) Finding Possum: Some of the random appearing characters (such as the enchanter) appeared quite often, but finding Possum took some time and knowing where to look. I had problems both times trying to find her (during the day and night).


More Good points

- Good "hint" message after dying at the front entrance to the Sharkee's lair.
- Enough similarity with the original to make it seem familiar, but constantly interesting to see what has changed and what is new.
- Good level of difficulty with new puzzles. Not too difficult, but not necessarily give-aways, either.
- Expanded story is amazing and well done to integrate the existing characters and flush out a simple "find three keys" quest into a more complete and satisfying story.
- Forgiving sequences, especially for those who didn't remember the exact combination the Sharkee King used, and for those Adventure Purists who don't do arcade sequences.
- My favorite puzzles were probably the swamp maze and the logic puzzle presented by the lion statues.

Playing AGDI's version of KQ2 was great fun and made me excited to play a video game again. I am eagerly waiting to see what AGDI has in store for their remake of KQ3.


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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahead)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:47 am 
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The Master of All Things Musical
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You couldn't dive in the original KQ2 either.

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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahe
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:00 am 
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edenwaith wrote:
- My favorite puzzles were probably the swamp maze and the logic puzzle presented by the lion statues.


The old "one who always lies, one who always tells the truth" is one of my favorite logic puzzles, too.

It's been quite a while since I've seen the movie "Labyrinth", but I know for a fact they had a version of it in the movie's novelization... I believe it was with two guards with two doors.


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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahe
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:02 am 
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MusicallyInspired wrote:
You couldn't dive in the original KQ2 either.


I was referring to King Graham knew how to dive in KQ1, but he didn't know how to dive in KQ2.


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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:49 pm 
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The workbench was the most annoying thing for me. The easiest fix would be to have him get a closer look when you click on anywhere near it, such as clicking the book or beaker.

Overall, great game though! I liked not having to go back because I forgot to pick something up 10 hours ago. For instance, I could pick up a reed exactly when it was needed.


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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahe
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Yeah, I love that part. I didn't like that you can't do certain things too soon, though, but I guess they didn't want that kind of sequence breaks in their game. :evil

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 Post subject: Re: KQ2-MAC game play suggestions and thoughts (spoilers ahe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:58 am 
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Several years ago, around 2002 to be exact, I got a brief interest in making games after someone over here introduced me to SCI studio. I later took C++ classes in the summer of 2003 in order to gain some understanding of programming. Unfortunately, I decided to wait for the never-to-be-released version of SCI studio VGA, which Brian had promised had a decompiler that would permit me to look into the inner workings of the game and get a stronger grasp as to how things actually work in there. The only problem is that not only did SCI VGA not come out, but the length of time I waited resulted in a lot of skill atrophy in my ability to program anything.

That being said, I've been interested in really starting to make a game, largely because I've actually got an idea as to what kind of game I want to make. So here I am, back at the drawing board, and I learned a bit of Basic and I've gotten the essential guide to C#. What do you people recommend to learn if I'm going to effectively program games with AGS, SCI Companion/Studio, and AGI studio, I intend to make a series using all those engines (I'll get to the why later when I announce that I've started on the games).

Till next time stay cool 8))

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