Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#26 Post by Bobbin Threadbare » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:28 am

Hmmm, I thought that the ship takes around 10-15 minutes until reaching Daventry's offshore.
I was thinking, maybe, on the first (and perhaps including 2nd round) of those "25 minutes" taking cares of every preparation needed for the ship until daventry parts, this (of course) also includes already visiting the oracle. And after Manannan leaves for another 25 minutes, immediately transport to the ship area using magic map and boarding the ship.

Guess I have to try this myself later on and see how far this goes. :p

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#27 Post by edenwaith » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:52 am

Now that I think about things some more, if there was something I'd change, it would be some of the scenery. On one side of Llewdor there is an ocean, then a bit of wooded lands, and then suddenly a desert. Oh, and there a mountain sticking out of the middle.

Perhaps it would have made a bit more sense if the mountains were on the west side of Llewdor, and there were at least two paths to descend from the mountain, one set that would go to Llewdor, and another path that might be a more desolate mountain area where Medusa is residing.

I think I did try escaping on the pirate ship without killing Manannan, and I think he appeared on the pirate ship and killed poor Gwydion.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#28 Post by Crowley9 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:35 pm

Personally, I loved the spellmaking in the original. Yes, it is very unforgiving, but I love how it gives you the feeling that you are messing around with something very, very powerful and dangerous where one tiny misstep spells doom. I didn't even realize that it was actually a copy protection until years later. As such, I was greatly disappointed to see that the IA remake automated the spellmaking process. I hope AGDI won't take it that far. Besides, it would be great to finally see what Manannan's alchemy table actually looks like. ;)

The absolute worst part for me? Oh dear God, the cliff...

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#29 Post by Fender178 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:35 pm

I hope they do what they did in their QFG2 VGA remake when they added the parser setting when you ask the characters about certain topics. Is do that for the spell making along with the point and click so any one can choose what they want. I think that would be cool.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#30 Post by Erpy » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:21 pm

Nope. We didn't add a parser to QFG2VGA, just because some people might enjoy parser more than point and click. We implemented it because it added something significant to the game, namely the ability to ask NPC's about optional topics. Besides, you won't need your game manual to play KQ3 Redux.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#31 Post by navynuke04 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:42 pm

We actually scripted a large portion of the spell casting before we aquired official permission from Vivendi. Because of this, we had already changed some of the spell text to avoid giving out the original copyright protection information. When you play the game, you'll see that some of the incantations are altered from their original KQ3 form. This is the reason. :)

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#32 Post by chucklas » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:48 pm

I figure since we are talking about all of the things we did/did not really like, some people might be interested in chiming in over on the IA forums at least for KQ3. They are going through all of the old sierra adventure games and rating/discussing. It has been a lot of fun so far, and I think some of those here would enjoy playing along. http://www.infamous-adventures.com/foru ... pic=3796.0

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#33 Post by Erpy » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:16 am

I think for their KQ3 rating, people should really play through our version too.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#34 Post by navynuke04 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:19 am

I might be wrong, but I think they are only reviewing the originals...

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#35 Post by Erpy » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:25 am

No, several games have an original vs. remake thread in their respective forum as well.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#36 Post by Blackthorne519 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:35 am

Yeah, when KQ3redux is released, I'd like to have a "go-back" to it so we can review it along with the other versions.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#37 Post by Lambonius » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:03 am

Heh...the sooner you guys release it, the sooner we'll go back and review it. ;)

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#38 Post by navynuke04 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:05 am

Two weeks, tops. :)

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#39 Post by cyberdalekyeti » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:01 pm

navynuke04 wrote:We actually scripted a large portion of the spell casting before we aquired official permission from Vivendi. Because of this, we had already changed some of the spell text to avoid giving out the original copyright protection information. When you play the game, you'll see that some of the incantations are altered from their original KQ3 form. This is the reason. :)

I actually hope the spell portion is like what Radiant did to that unfinished remake. That part was great.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#40 Post by Fender178 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:56 pm

Oh I see. Thats cool.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#41 Post by Zatos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:35 am

King's Quest III, for me, had the best story and villain, hands down.

The whole dynamic of the game is different from any adventure game that I can recall. Living in the villain's house and being kept under his thumb. Having your every move watched. You get a much better picture of who Mannanan is because you rifle through his private things and discover his secrets. You empty his chamber pot. You serve him food. You clean his house and do his chores. He instills fear and authority. He punishes you if you don't obey him. When he does punish you he has some pretty nasty ways of doing it. If you're really bad, he will kill you. Then not being able to have any freedom until he leaves. Then you get to explore and discover what kinds of things that he is hiding from you. Then the pressure of trying to get back and not getting caught with anything on you to let him know you were "up to no good." There was just a completely different type of relationship with the villain than in any other game.

In a way, I think there is a different sort of story telling here, a form of minimalism. You learn most about Mannanan by what his house is like, what he has in his possessions, digging around in his personal things. Discovering his secret laboratory. Finding his telescope he uses to spy on the people of Llewdor. It gives you a sense of who Mannanan is not through dialogue, but through details.

I have to say as much as the mountain path sucked, in it's own way that gave a very menacing feel to the mountain, reflecting the qualities of Mannanan. Despite it's annoyance, I don't know that it would be the same game if it wasn't there.

The laboratory was pure genius. It was creepy, secretive, and gave a sense of very dangerous power.

This game I also thought had the best names ever. Mannanan, Gwydion, Llewdor. Such awesome names.

I have such love and nostalgia for this game.

The only thing I don't like so much about the game is that after you defeat Mannanan, the game loses some of its intensity. Also, once you leave Llewdor, everything becomes pretty linear.


But this game did something so unique and perhaps even groundbreaking when it was first released... it will always be a classic. Perhaps even to date, another adventure game has not quite done what KQ3 accomplished. One of, if not the best King's Quest game.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#42 Post by Aristocles » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:05 am

It will be interesting to see what Telltale games will do with this. As most of you probably know, Activision has given them license to reboot the series, and as the first game in the series to have an actual plot beyond a treasure hunt, it will likely be given an official remake. This leaves us with one question: how many fans will accuse them of ripping off the unofficial remakes? :rollin

Seriously, any game from over 20 years ago with TWO remakes that highly dedicated staff made for FREE has got have had an impact. I've never seen another game that deals with slavery, human sacrifice, piracy, and other fairly mature topics in such a manner. Even Dragon Age: Origins (which has all three of those topics!) doesn't come close, partially because those bad things are what happen to "other people." Yes, there is a pirate in Dragon Age, but she has a brief appearance and the reality of piracy is downplayed (they are just murderous thieves on water), and while there is indirect mention of human sacrifice in that game, it comes in the form of a blood-stained altar that could be anything else if it wasn't explicitly said to be human blood.

Which brings me to the Best Part of the Original; the fact that the creators were bold enough to make the character play as a slave, and to show the horrors of that practice, including arbitrary treatment of another human, and the unjust sense of entitlement the master has over the slave. It is hard to imagine a major company making a game about that topic today.

The worst part of the original was the timing system, including having to wait around for long periods, and the possibility of missing the pirate ship.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#43 Post by Zatos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:09 pm

I love this game.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#44 Post by MisterKerr » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:28 pm

Worst part: the stupid bandit tree. I'd spend something like fifteen minutes going in and out of the treehouse until the stupid bandit fell asleep every single time! I know this type of puzzle was typical of the earlier King's Quest games (like Grandma/the wolf in KQII or the troll caves in KQIV) but for some reason it bugged me more here. Probably because the time wasted actually counted against you in this game.

Best part: the graphics. (Wait, hear me out!) Specifically, the screens in the alpine area. Seriously, there's something amazingly atmospheric about how the original artists captured the lonely, crisp feel of an alpine trail, even in lowly AGI 16-color. I live less than a half-hour from some of the most beautiful mountainous trails and skiing areas in the world (or at least the U.S.) and still when I go hiking and see the view from 6,000 feet up I think, "Wow! It makes me think of King's Quest III!" It's something that neither remake (nor KQV, for that matter) has been able to recapture, even with a better color palette and resolution. I guess setting up shop in Oakhurst really gave the artists a feel for high-altitude landscapes.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#45 Post by Erpy » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:33 pm

Worst part: the stupid bandit tree. I'd spend something like fifteen minutes going in and out of the treehouse until the stupid bandit fell asleep every single time! I know this type of puzzle was typical of the earlier King's Quest games (like Grandma/the wolf in KQII or the troll caves in KQIV) but for some reason it bugged me more here. Probably because the time wasted actually counted against you in this game.
In Redux, we set things up so that if you climb up the tree and the bandit is awake, leaving and coming back ups the odds of him being asleep the next time.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#46 Post by phillips » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:27 pm

It has been a while since I played the original, but one of the parts I didn't like was the walkway. It was easy to fall off the edge. Is that why the gap is there to prevent me from using it in the redux version?

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#47 Post by Erpy » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:00 pm

Why would you want to use the walkway when there's perfectly usable stairs instead?

One of the things we tried to do with KQ3 Redux was to still make the mountain paths and such somewhat dangerous (you can still fall to your death), but very unlikely to kill the player for a wrong step unless he just clicks somewhere and expects Gwydion to just walk around the deadly drops automatically.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#48 Post by Linnau » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:46 pm

DarkJaguar wrote: Oh! On a storytelling point, as much as the story of a slave to an evil wizard plotting escape was an interesting one, I have to admit I never did much buy that wizard's reasoning for using human slaves. The manual DOES state he "preferred slaves to conjured spirits" because apparently spirits are too much trouble (and admittedly, the conjured spirits Mordack uses kinda prove the point, being as incompetent as they are). However, what we're basically being told is that Mananan actually found it easier to raise a human being FROM INFANCY to an age where they could actually be useful for doing chores, training them to do the chores WELL instead of making a mess, and then having maybe a couple of years of actual useful slave work before killing the slave and starting all over again. It seems like he'd be spending more time raising and training his slaves than actually having slave work. At that point, is it really worth it? Maybe if there was some plot point about him abducting the slave, then sending the child off to some horrible camp to be trained and then going to fetch the slave when he was "ready" it would work, and heck he could kidnap them more often to offset the time without a slave if it worked that way, with one slave trained while another was still being raised at some anonymous location. Of course if there's some group raising slaves, then the question comes as to why the wizard would be doing the abducting instead of that slave trading group, but that's at least something a little easier to swallow. Any thoughts on this, or did I just think about this way too much?
This exact same thing bothered me when I first played KQ3. What's the logic in raising an infant to be a slave, if you only get a few years of useful labour from him. Just imagine Manannan taking care of a small toddler, feeding him, teaching him to read (Alexander apparently knows how to) etc. This problem of logic was partly taken care of in the third episode of The Silver Lining, where a more reasonable explanation is given to Alexander's kidnapping than just Manannan's cruelty or need for a slave.

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Re: Original KQ3 Worst/Best Parts (SPOILERS)

#49 Post by MusicallyInspired » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:56 pm

Don't think about it too much. You're just meant to go with it. I'm talking about the original here.

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