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 Post subject: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:44 am 
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Let me first off say:

BEAUTIFULLY done game. I really enjoyed the artwork. The voice acting held up really well, considering that the cannon KQ games feature some of my favorite voices in any games. The new puzzles were fresh, and fun.

Let me make clear, that I love the original KQ games, and grew up playing them. I understand that there were a lot of complaints that KQII+ did "too much" to change the game we all know and love.. but my problem with the KQIII Redux is that it hardly changes enough.

I thought the new, fresh plot that was created in KQII+ was really exciting and frankly, pretty awesome. When I found out that KQIII was finally being remade I was really excited to find out how the trilogy would be finished.. and.. nothing happens. All of the awesome stuff set up in KQII+ is hardly capitalized on. KQIIIRedux follows the original plotline pretty much to the letter..

was anyone else disappointed in AGD not capitalizing on the awesome story started in KQII+ though?


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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Some other people in the forums wanted to see more of the Father in this game, too. But it looks like King's Quest III doesn't offer much room for the Father to shine, given that most of the story happens outside of Daventry. There's also people that wrote reviews of the game saying that the Father didn't make much sense in this game and that it would have been better to leave him out, so AGDi's choice of having the Father tangential to the story might have been an attempt to satisfy both kind of players.

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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:13 pm 
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I also don't believe there was much room for the father to be prominent in the story... at least not directly. Having the father storyline play out tangential to the KQIII story was a good idea, but I think there was another way to bring out more of the father storyline without actually having the father be present.

As an example, consider for a moment the Oracle. The Oracle is mysterious to the point that his/her presence in the game is very undefined. What I mean is, she appears, helps Alexander, and then leaves. As such, there are a number of ways to interpret the Oracle's intentions. One such interpretation would be that the Oracle is trying to help Daventry and the royal family. However, there is also the possibility that the Oracle is simply an enemy of the Father.

This brings me to my point. One can further develop the Father storyline, in a much more fleshed out manner, by introducing someone, some group, or something that is against the Father. A result of this is that it creates a more direct link between the Father storyline and the story of KQIII. As a result, the momentum from KQII could be carried over into KQIII. As a side note, this would have created an interesting symmetry between the two stories. KQII is a light-hearted story with a darker overarching plot, whereas KQIII is a darker story but would have had a lighter more hopeful overarching plot.

Of course, this is simply a hypothetical 'what if' scenario. Furthermore, KQIII is an amazing game, even without such things. While I do believe there were areas that KQIII could have been better, KQIII is definitely one of the best adventure games I have had the privilege of playing.


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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:36 pm 
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If you explore all the conversation options with the Oracle she does mention the Father and the BCS saying he must be stopped.

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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:37 pm 
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The Oracle mentioning that the father must be stopped does indeed hint at her intentions. However, it is not something that is very prominent in the game. It is there, but it's an optional conversation. Even if this conversation option wasn't optional, as it stands, it does not have a strong enough presence to carry on the momentum of the father storyline. For something to carry over the momentum of the father storyline, it is required that this something have a presence that is at least as powerful as the father's presence was in King's Quest II. However, I think that the restrictions of King's Quest III would make developing such a presence about as difficult as taming a three headed dragon (...perhaps not quite that difficult).


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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:08 am 
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I agree that there could have been A LOT more added, including having Manannan meeting with other black cloak society members on his journeys, and possibly the father as well. We get an idea of where Manannan could be going in the IA remake (to Mordack's fortress), and Redux has the animals tell you that he is looking for another boy to kidnap (apparently the birds know this somehow), but yes, there could have been a lot more.

The only really annoying thing is how Morgelien ("the father") just shows up, waiting in the middle of the woods, doing nothing, even though the forest was still on fire. It's part of the problem with the last sequence of the game as a whole, from Rosella's odd voicework to the the unnecessary obstacle course to get to the castle, to the REALLY powerful evil guy (who is more powerful than Mannanan, if I understand correctly!) just stands there and lets them walk past. It would be like Palpatine just letting Luke go:

Emperor: So... you defeated Vader.

Luke: I'll never join you!

Emperor: Then... you may leave. I'll just wait here and watch the space battle.

Luke: Oh. Thanks!

Even so, up until the very last 1-2% of the game, it is very good. The part with Seran was spot-on, as was most of the oracle part. While I admit it would have been nice to know why she was helping him, and where (or when!) she was from (probably the past), an air of mystery can be an important thing as well. It wouldn't be so mystical if we knew her name was Gertie, that she lived in a little house in some unimportant country, and that she does her laundry every Friday. And that she happens to be a mage who opposes the Black Cloak society. That would be like a female Crispin.


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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:32 am 
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The oracle isn't just a mage, she's more like an apparition from a time long gone. A remnant of a being who was once a mage, but moved from the physical plane a long time ago. When Alex picks the root and the cave changes, it's meant to be a time displacement of sorts. (showing the place as the shrine it was centuries ago) Alex either travelled into the past for a little while or part of the past came to him.

The Morgeilen appearance was meant to be a cameo, since the Father doesn't have much to do with Alex's storyline. Neither Alex nor Rosella knows who he is, it's just the player who is given a sudden oh crap moment. There was little reason for the Father to take action against Alex, since Graham already told him he wasn't going to bend to his demands, even if it came at the cost of his family.

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 Post subject: Re: A little disappointed.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:38 pm 
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I have to agree with Erpy in the case of the father. The father has no reason to do anything to Alexander or Rosella. They mean nothing to him. He cannot use them to achieve his goals. Furthermore, killing them is pointless. If the father was going to kill someone, it would probably be Graham. However, that would also be, for all intents and purposes, pointless.

As for the obstacle course to the castle, the puzzles themselves were actually good puzzles. The atmosphere is really well done as well. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with it when taken on its own. It is the order in which it appears that is an issue. If the trek through Daventry happened before facing the dragon, everything about the journey through the destroyed Daventry, even encountering the father, would add to the tension of having to face the dragon. As far as the conversation with Rosella is concerned, it doesn't matter whether it all happens on the mountain or whether it happens over the course of a trek through Daventry.

In relation to the oracle, her being a mage, where she comes from, why she's helping Alexander, even her gender is not necessarily obvious from what occurs in the game. Of course, my mind could be too open to different possibilities.... But from the conversation that took place in the game, I have no reason to assume anything about the Oracle. She's too underdeveloped, or rather, too mysterious for that. I think one more appearance, even if it was in voice only, would have introduced an opportunity for further development on her part. Furthermore, she is a very unrestricted character. Her lack of obvious limitations allow her the ability to be developed such that she can influence Alexander during any point in the story. In other words, she could act as a direct link between the three main parts of the story. While I do not think such a thing is necessary, I do believe that it would have introduced further opportunities to develop both the story and Alexander. There are, of course other things that directly link the three parts of the story together, but the strongest links will always be produced by a character or an item of extraordinary focus and importance to the story (in this case, Alexander's story, not the father storyline).


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