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 Post subject: okay........................................................
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:32 pm 
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King of Men
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one thing i thought might improve the picture is actual visable stone bricks on the ohuse instead of just all grey.


This whould definetly improve the detail, and make it look closer to Tierra.

Quote:
i also agree with the shingles.


Shingles are pretty much a must for the pic. For the chicken coop and Wizard's house.

And improving the chicken coop and fence could help the pic too.

The Knight


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 Post subject: Re: okay....................................................
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:09 pm 
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Obviously the picture is better than the previous one<br>some tips:

some lines must be more straight (use a ruler).

the mud (should not be a mud) in the left is like it covers the stone.I suggest trying using layers of photoshop for defining easily which object covers the other.

The right part of the original AGI picture where it shows the sea in the background is missing.

add noise before applying blur (IF you use blur-i am not sure).

use more colors, for example more green colors for the grass.<br><br>use a scanner+sketch method

take a look at photoshop tutorials.I have some links if you are interested.(in my pc->house, now i am at pc->work)

take your time, there is an obvious improvement.After 1-2 weeks your pics will be even better!


Edited by: adventurer76</A> at: 1/20/03 4:45:57 pm


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 Post subject: Yeah....................................................
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:15 pm 
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The dirt is also a thing that has to change. And don't forget about the sea. You'll get people all over you if you leave that out.

The Knight


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 Post subject: Re: Yeah....................................................
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:25 pm 
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I really have nothing to add, except. . . Don't get discouraged by the criticism. You're doing great.

Oh, and I also think shingles would look good. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Yeah....................................................
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:56 pm 
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Well, I'm no artist by any means, but I think it looks great! The others' suggestions are better than any I could come up with so I guess you could go with their advice. Like navynuke said, however, I will agree that the background (or the stuff in the distance) looks awesome! I don't think that area needs any work whatsoever. :)

~Wolfgang


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 Post subject: it seems....................................................
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:59 pm 
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It seems that except for the lack of the sea. The background is great.

The Knight


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 Post subject: My assessment...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:07 pm 
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A lot has already been said. I shall see what I can add. Keep in mind that this is criticism of the work, not a personal insult. :)

I'd say the best part of the picture is the stuff at the bottom, in the background. However, though I may be mistaken (and if I am, I apologize), but it looks like it's just a scene from the intro of KQ5, blurred and mirrored.

The rock also looks good. No complaints there.

As has been mentioned, the ground could really use some more detail. Maybe it's also a bit too dark. I'm not sure about this.

I think another problem with the image is that it looks disjointed. The various parts of the image don't seem to fit together very well, possibly because they're mostly just single colors. There should be more variation in the colours, so it looks like a single picture and can't be so clearly divided into "blue sky", "brown ground," "grey house," etc. I really don't know how to express this.

Also, the image would look a lot better if you pixel-edited all the boundaries to make them smoother before scaling down, I think. At the top of the house in the big picture, for example, there's a blackline at one place, and there are various other white or black splotches that make it look crude.

In the original, it looks like the thing for entering the chicken coop is straight, except for the perspective. Here, it looks distinctly diagonal, and that feels a bit odd.

I also think the change in the layout of the screen may not be good. You can't see the ocean. It also looks like you could go to the east, but there's not enough cut out to make a whole other screen, and there'd be nothing to do there.

In the big picture, the fence looked too "perfect." It's all straight and fits together, so it has a huge contrast to the rest of the picture. However, this is much less of an issue with the 320x200 picture.

The biggest problem, though, would have to be the house itself. As mentioned before, it could use bricks and/or shingles to make it stop looking like clay. Also, the lines really need to be straightened. The original house has very elegant, IMHO, and this was lost. Also, the window on the left (and the wall is was on) were diagonal in the original, but here it looks like the wall is a bit diagonal while the window is straight. I'm not sure if the style of the windows is right, but I know very little about architecture, so I can't really comment on this.

I think that's all I have to say about it right now. I don't think the picture is bad, but I really can't honestly say it's up to Tierra's standards.


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 Post subject: Re: My assessment...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:43 pm 
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You know what they say... Practice makes perfect! Well, all of these are being taken into consideration and I'm editing them right now.


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 Post subject: Re: My assessment...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:45 pm 
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BTW-- yes, it was Kq5 I got the background from. There isn't anything wrong with that for two reasons, Tierra does it (look at grandma's house exterior) and, it works well with the background, as said before. :) I probably couldn't make that detailed a background if my life depended on it, and I think it's an overall boost to the picture. I did do the desert part though.


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 Post subject: Re: My assessment...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:45 am 
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Well, taking all the considerations in, here is the new screen. Now, you guys mentioned the sea. The purpose of this demo is to simply let your minds rest that the game is in safe hands. I would have planned on drawing another screen to the right with the sea in it, if we were going to use this screen in the game. But most likely, we will find that lots of the setting has changed in Wookie's version. So, there's a good chance that the final copy will need more work still. At any rate, Here's the new image:

Image

Compare it with the original, a lot of enhancements made. I need help on the sky. I can't figure out how to do it.

EDIT: WOAH! PNG really took the detail away. Trying gif:

Image

Edited by: MuzlakOofmay</A> at: 1/20/03 6:52:24 pm


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 Post subject: Just a suggestion...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:57 am 
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Another suggestion: the brick and shingle textures you used look fine on the front of the house, but they need work on the sides. You can see how the bottom of the windows go diagonal to show that they are on the sides of the house. The bricks should be on the same diagonal. Does that make sense?

"Without the fleet, the contest would be on our home grounds, and war is one contest in which it is best to be on the visiting team." -ADM Nimitz


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 Post subject: Hmmm...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:16 am 
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I downloaded both the PNG and the PCX and cannot see any difference at all in how they look. AFAIK, PNG is lossless.

Now, about the picture... Many of the flaws are still there. The texture does make it look much nicer. The problem is that the texture also makes the diagonal things look off; it would have to be rotated for those things.

I'd also note that in all SCI games, there was a 10 pixel border at the top. In Tierra's games, it was 9 pixels. So the actual picture would have to be 320x191.

The picture might also be stretched a little compared to the original. The door seems to be 34 pixels in the original and 42 in the remake, while they both have about the same width. It's just something else to pay attention to. Your screen aspect ratio is mostly likely 4:3 while the game's resolution is 8:5. So if something looks right while you're making it, it could look too tall when it's in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Hmmm...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:31 am 
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Well the door was done that way on purpose. Our characters had to be scaled in this screen to fit in the door. We fixed that with the picture. Maybe it's just my computer, but pngs always seem to be darker. perhaps why the dirt looked so dark before. I did do a transform on the pattern to make the bricks look like they're going the other way. perhaps it wasn't enough? Or it's not correctly done?

EDIT: OK, new image up. *almost* positive that I got the bricks right this time. BTW, navynuke, what method did you use to resize it? Every time I resize, I either lose a lot of detail, get blurred, or get scratches. Anyways, here's the image:

Image
Image

Edited by: MuzlakOofmay</A> at: 1/20/03 8:05:34 pm


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 Post subject: Re: Hmmm...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:09 am 
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You'll need to rotate the texture on the roof part as well. That is coming along pretty good.


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 Post subject: Getting there...............................................
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:30 am 
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Okay, this is good. You're almost done with improving the house. The things that stand out to me, are the door, and the tower thing on the right.

Also, there are the other things to work on. I'll give you sort of a checklist.

__-House door
__-House lookout tower
__-Dirt
__-Chicken coop
__-Fence

These are pretty much left to do with the pic.

The Knight


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 Post subject: Ah.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:30 am 
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I understand about the sprites. Maybe the door should also be a bit wider to compensate, though. Also, it's not necessarily bad to use different sized sprites, if there are different scales for different areas. *shrugs*.

The bricks do, indeed, look much better now. :) On the right side, the lower edge of the window isn't parallel to the line of the bricks. I think the window is what should be changed, though.

Also, the shingles on the roof on the side parts have the same texture alignment problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:46 am 
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Ok, I'm glad to see that you guys think it's coming along. I'll widen the door a bit. The Knight~~ I changed the dirt. Does it not look better? I added two different textures to it, and I think it looks great. Anyways, I could be wrong. I'll fix the window, and I'm not sure about the fence. I'm not quite sure what I have to do to fix that. Anyways, thanks!


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 Post subject: Try..............................................
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:53 am 
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Okay, the fence looks out of place. It doesn't seem to belong. The dirt still dosen't look right. Try making it look like the dirt in KQ2:RTS.

The Knight


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 Post subject: Re: Ah.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:15 am 
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Fixed roof. Worked on the chicken house, I think it looks good, but I need your guys' opinion on it. Still need to work on the sky. The tower seemed a little flat to me, worked on that. I don't plan on adding bricks, it would be way to hard, and who makes a circular tower out of bricks? I think this bad boy is almost done ;) How's it looking? I'm really excited to get Tierra input on this, not that everyone's crits aren't helpful, I just want to know how Tierra feels about it. Anyways, I don't think there's much left. Adeyke, can you expand a bit on what you think needs to be done with the fence?

Image


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 Post subject: Hmmm...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:18 am 
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I think the fence just looks too perfect. As that thing's just for the chickens, it would probably normally be a bit crooked and bent out of shape in areas from age and use. Instead, it's the only thing in the picture with such perfectly parallel lines and perfectly even spacing.

It could just be so obvious being the house, which is supposed to look well-built and elegant, instead looks rounded and crude. I think the windows, especially, still need a lot of work. The arches on them aren't symetrical. Maybe actually use the arc tool for those (or use part of an ellipse to get the shape right).


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 Post subject: chicken house...............................................
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:24 am 
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The left side of the chicken house, and the ramp, and the opening into the chicken house need a little.

So, does the dirt. I think if you get the dirt right, then the fence might look right.

The Knight


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 Post subject: Re: chicken house...........................................
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:51 am 
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Wow, there's been a lot of work done to this from the original image. Thanks to everyone who helped me, and made it look better. I thought one of the reasons why the fence looked bad was because it stood perfectly straight up, and there was no shading around it. I fixed it a bit, and I intend on doing more work. Also, I did a lot of work on the windows, I hope it's noticeable. I did some general touchups. What do you think now?

Image


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 Post subject: chicken house...........................................
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:59 am 
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Almost have it, MuzlakOofmay. The left part of the chicken house around the roof looks funny. Same with the opening and ramp. And the DIRT still needs help.

Also, the door of the house is too plain looking. I whould think something with more elegence

Checklist:

__-Dirt
__-Chicken house opening
__-Chicken house left part around roof
__-Chicken house ramp
__-House door

That's all that I can find fault with right now.

The Knight


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 Post subject: Hmmm...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:06 am 
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It's getting better every time. ;)

I'd note that the 9 pixel border is for when it's game-sized. As you're making the image double-sized and then scaling it down, it'd have to be 18 pixels there.

The darkening around the windows does look good, I think. The shape of the arch on the side ones (especially at left) still looks somewhat odd, though.

Also, for the door, it might look better if there was a clear and consistent door frame around it. Right now, the black stuff between the blue door and the grey house has different thicknesses for at different areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Hmmm...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:31 am 
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Ok, I think I've ALMOST got it here. I don't know what more to do with the dirt, but I'll certainly work on it a bit more. I redid the door. Also, I think the front of the house was what made it look "crude" I completely redid this part. For better or worse? I touched up on the windows some more too. I also added some shading on some parts of the house to make it look more straight. What do you think?

Image

VERSION 6 -- jeeze, I've done so much work.

EDIT: By the way, I've decided if there's any buildings that need to have a nice elegant feel to them, I'm doing them all on computer. I sketched this, and really regret it. :) But, for example, the 3 bears house, it's not bad if this thing looks a little "crude" because it is crude!

Edited by: MuzlakOofmay at: 1/20/03 10:34:52 pm


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