Skill progression

Report bugs or find solutions to hardware problems regarding KQ1VGA and KQ2:RTS.

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Emach
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Skill progression

#1 Post by Emach » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:44 pm

I have a few observations about the skillup process in QFG2VGA. I would consider these bugs but they may be better off as suggestions.

Stealth is retardedly hard to max. I appreciate the fact that it was far too easy in the other QFG games, but I feel like you guys overcompensated. First, the fact that stealthing drains stamina is awful - this does not happen in any of the other QFG games and it poses a real problem for thieves in the desert. If you stealth your way to the oasis (more effective at evading monsters than riding your saurus), if you do end up in combat because your stealth fails, you have no stamina because you blew it all stealthing. Also, if you aren't very careful about keeping rested just walking around town in stealth mode, you'll blow health from being exhausted and eventually randomly die. On top of that, I kept my character in stealth mode literally the entire game and I was left with 170 something at the end. Stealth is usually the first skill you max in other QFG games.

Luck is the first core stat to hit 100 in QFG1VGA virtually every time. In QFG2, it was one of the few skills I was unable to max. The learn rate on this one should be increased.

If you use your 25 points to buy climbing (from 0), there's virtually no way to level your climbing. You can use the magic rope in the desert, but this sucks. While it's a nice animation, it's extremely annoying to have to watch the rope appear, climb it, get off, rinse, repeat, the several hundred times you need to do it to get enough skill to climb the palm tree at the dervish. Actually, I don't know what number that is because I gave up on climbing before I ever got there. It would be better if you got a simple message that said something like, "there's nothing up there, but at least it gave you a chance to practice your climbing" like it does with lockpicking (there is no animation when practicing on barred doors in the alley). I appreciated the penis puns when my magic rope lost its magic (does this happen in EGA? I never found out). But at 125 dinars for only about 50 climbing skill worth, there just isn't enough money in the game to max climbing using your rope.

Throwing is also very tough to max. In QFG1VGA there are plenty of places (the dagnabit board, the archery range). In other QFG's, the easiest way is to put the hand icon on the ground somewhere, hold down the enter key for a long time to grab a bunch of rocks, change to the rock item from your inventory, and hold down the enter key to throw all your rocks. In QFG2, when you pickup rocks in the desert, the icon changes to the rock icon as soon as you pick up rocks, which means you can't rapidly pick up rocks. This is not a huge problem since it encourages actual "practice" I guess, but the skillup rate on throwing rocks is abysmally slow. I picked up over 1000 rocks and I was still unable to move my throwing skill from 190 to 200.

Magic is conversely almost too easy to max. All you need to do is stock up on mana pills, cast zap, and then hold down F6 until you are out of mana. Pop a pill, repeat. If you become exhausted, use a vigor pill. I went from 110 magic to 200 in about 5 minutes.

Agility also maxes way too fast. I was at 200 long before any of my other stats. Even with 200 agility, the acrobat's rope minigame was impossible to complete even with the skill slider all the way down. I could not, for the life of me, figure out whether my character was falling left or right so I couldn't compensate. Plus, with a 200 agility skill and the skill slider bottomed out, I would have expected a 0% chance of even becoming imbalanced. I found this frustrating that I couldn't complete this puzzle, even though I wasn't a thief.

The EOF guy and Khaveen are too difficult to hit. I literally could not hit Khaveen when the skill slider was all the way up. Every single time I swung my sword, he parried. I would have to parry all of his attacks. Eventually, I ran out of stamina and died. Khaveen was at 99% HP (he took one hit from when I knocked his sword out of his hands). I had 200 of every combat skill and every stat (Str, Agi, Vit). I was able to beat the EOF guy on max difficulty but only after several tries. The earth elemental was also rather difficult, but since you can run away and pop healing pills, it was only minor. It added a bit to the epic feel of the fact that you're actually saving the day (I mean, the water elemental? That takes 2 seconds to vanquish).

I'm sure skill balancing is one of the hardest parts of the game, and I was overall very impressed with how it was done. Aside from these few (minor) issues, it was perfect.

Erpy
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Re: Skill progression

#2 Post by Erpy » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:09 pm

Skill balancing is difficult indeed and it's pretty subjective to personal opinion too.

Anyway, you're practicing climbing in the wrong spot. Try the griffin's cliff instead of the rope.

Stealth does indeed take a while to max (although not nearly as slow as it was in QFG4), but it increases faster when it's used in a situation where it's needed. While you're sneaking in a place you shouldn't be, it'll rise faster. If you succesfully evade a monster, it gets a boost too. True, stealth drains stamina just like running. I noticed in QFG4 you lost some stamina when you switched from walking to sneak mode. I thought that was rather silly. Stealth is pretty useful in QFG2, so it's worth the trouble raising it. Once it's raised a bit, you won't have to worry about facing monsters with low stamina since QFG2VGA's monster evasion eventually gets 100% reliable.

As for throwing, yeah it takes a little while, but then again, since one can just hold the enter key to keep throwing, it's not nearly as slow as it was in the EGA version.

And yeah, the zap spam is kinda broken, but I feel if I disable the F6 key, that's not gonna be okay either.

You can tell which way to balance on a rope by watching which of the hero's feet goes off the rope. Press the key going in the opposite direction. With 200 agility (yeah, it goes up quickly but that's also partially because QFG2VGA forces you to defend more often in battle which raises agility), you should still have like 95% chance to keep your balance every time you step forward.

Finally, I never had that much trouble with Walid, although Khaveen does take quite a bit of skill on hard. You shouldn't just swing though. A fighter has a wide diversity of sword techniques at his disposal and the fight against Khaveen is the one battle where you can use every single one of them. And you should. If he counters your swing, counter it right back at him. (ditto with Walid, btw)

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Solarkid
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Re: Skill progression

#3 Post by Solarkid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:46 pm

My only issues with the skill balancing are.
Stealth is indeed different to EVERY other qfg game because it drains stamina, it makes no sense and i really think it would be better if it didn't.
Climbing is extremely hard to build (or though not as hard as qfg3 which is impossible) but in a way that's all the more reason to make it easier in your remake, so the character is more prepared for qfg 3.

I find the other skills fine now, although as a general comment, i do agree that it would be nice if the cursor didn't change to whatever you just picked up.
Love the game! :D

Dave

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