Background pictures

Message

#76 Post by **Erpy** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:52 pm

Well, it really depends. I've seen backgrounds that are so detailed it was just painful to see them resized. I personally think your backgrounds are still lacking the extensive detail that would make 640x400 a viable choice. Keep in mind that bigger backgrounds mean bigger filesize. 4x as big, in point of fact. So only pick 640x400 if the detail loss is more striking than the filesize.

BT is right, btw. I'm not very experienced in art.

LucasFan · #77 Post by **LucasFan** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:00 pm

Blackthorne519 wrote:Besides, Erpy doesn't make the art for the games. He's a better programmer.

And translator!

Blackthorne519 wrote:He's probably the most successful retro-game designer on the net.

Ah, oh, that feels so good. Do you want to marry me?

PS.: I don't know why but I think I have to check the download counters of MMD... Oh... 312,543.

Blackthorne519 · #78 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:44 pm

LucasFan wrote: Ah, oh, that feels so good. Do you want to marry me?

PS.: I don't know why but I think I have to check the download counters of MMD... Oh... 312,543.

You know, LF, if I had a nickel for every time a German person asked me to marry them......

Erpy wrote: BT is right, btw. I'm not very experienced in art.

Not to say that you don't know what you like and what looks good, though. I thought JLM might have thought you were the artist on the AGDI games.

Bt

Snarky · #79 Post by **Snarky** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:55 pm

PValiant wrote:I like you're doing a project by yourself. But like said before, the art could use some improvement

Besides the rather pixelated look, i also think you should watch out for your colours. Some of the green is too flashy and could use some work to look more real. I did a quick job on one of your backgrounds to show what i mean. There are more things you can improve but you're certainly on the right track. Good luck

Actually, PValiant, I think the colors in the original picture are realistic, it's just that they're from a different type of terrain than you're assuming. JLM5's pictures look extremely Scandinavian. Your edit looks more continental European, English or American -- and therefore more generic. The changes you made to the path and to the tree in particular contribute to this.

I think the distinctive regional look of the background scenery is one of the best features of the artwork, and I think it would be a shame if it was made more blandly universal.

JLM5, I like the changes to the icons. I think the Talk icon could still use some more work, though. I whipped up a quick edit in Photoshop to show you what I'm talking about. It's still not something I would be satisfied with, but at least it looks cleaner.

JLM5 · #80 Post by **JLM5** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:49 pm

Blackthorne519 wrote:
Erpy wrote: BT is right, btw. I'm not very experienced in art.
Not to say that you don't know what you like and what looks good, though. I thought JLM might have thought you were the artist on the AGDI games. Bt

Yes, I couldn't know if Erpy isn't very experienced in art. I just thought Erpy knows very much about adventure games because he belongs to AGDInteractive.

And about the backgrounds, I'm not going to change the regional look of artwork. Actually it's a little shame that there are very few adventrues that take place in north Europe and areas of coniferous forest. I can't remember other such a games than Quest for Glory 4 (true, it took place in a world like certain areas of eastern Europe).

PValiant · #81 Post by **PValiant** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:03 am

Well snarky, in the end it is just a matter of taste. And personally i do not like the style of JLM5 too much. It really looks too unrealistic to me. I would like to see some references for the scandinavian colours though

That said i admire JML5 is working on a game himself, keep up the work

Blackthorne519 · #82 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:58 pm

I think JLM's style is really great. I like his art very much, especially the sprite. I think it looks pretty nice, and I'd love to see what the project looks like in the future!

Bt

Snarky · #83 Post by **Snarky** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:45 pm

PValiant wrote:Well snarky, in the end it is just a matter of taste. And personally i do not like the style of JLM5 too much. It really looks too unrealistic to me. I would like to see some references for the scandinavian colours though

That said i admire JML5 is working on a game himself, keep up the work

Some things are a matter of taste, others are not. When you complain about the pixellated look using as your example a picture that someone else deliberately pixellated, that's not taste, it's confusion. If you don't like the colors, that's taste. If you think they're not realistic, that's a belief and subject to empirical evidence.

Here are some pictures of similar terrain. They don't give a great sense of the moss-covered ground, but other than that they show what we're talking about.

PValiant · #84 Post by **PValiant** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:38 am

I understand what you are saying and these pictures show good references. Yet there are some slight differences between these photos and the game. Point one is that the sprite is walking on some sort of path, which is most likely quite muddy. This quite obviously should be more brown rather than flashy green.

Secondly when you are creating screens you always have to consider how much realism you will include in your pictures. Sometimes a picture that looks quite different from photos actually looks much better and more realistic than when the photo is copied into a background. In that sense, the amount of realism is a matter of taste

Blackthorne519 · #85 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:11 pm

I think Snarky's saying your making some unmitigated and unqualified nit-picks to some nice pics for a game.

So his path's are a little yellow. The mineral consistancy of the ground in the pictures may slightly differ from other places in the world. I think JLM knows what he's doing, and I, personally, think the pics are great.

Not that you can't have your opinions, PValiant, but it seems to me like there's some harsher criticism that may be a little antagonistic.

Bt

Snarky · #86 Post by **Snarky** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:58 pm

PValiant, whether or not people like the backgrounds is a matter of taste. I think they're great, but of course you're free to feel otherwise, and the paintover you did (which was very nice, don't get me wrong) proves that you only want to help.

I still think that a big reason why you don't like the look of the pictures is that you don't recognize the kind of terrain it depicts. The iridescent green is characteristic of the moss and heather covering the ground in wetland terrain (if you compare the pictures on the first page of this thread, you'll see that the one by the lake is full of bright green, while the other pictures use darker, fuller shades). I have fond memories of hiking in forests like that, and get a kick out of seeing it in a game.

I do agree that there'd be some mud (I mentioned it myself up near the beginning of the thread), but unless the path is heavily travelled it wouldn't be more than a few patches here and there.

Rambaldi0503 · #87 Post by **Rambaldi0503** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:00 pm

I like his pictures cuz they're purty.

Klytos · #88 Post by **Klytos** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:46 am

I reakon they look good.

Zeus · #89 Post by **Zeus** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:20 am

Valiant

The only way to have success is to RIP a sierra background and do some minor edits.For example rip a picture from longbow , make one stone bigger,add some leaves (or remove them the easy way of editing),
put a flower, and then baptize the background as PVALIANT ORIGINAL background work.

Oh and if there is no sierra game with scandinavian background, you can bypass this obstacle, by changing the game location. Set England as the game location.You will also have the capability of using many ready backgrounds, that real artists had already drawn.

#90 Post by **Erpy** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:38 am

Zeus, use of winking smilies doesn't really do a good job decreasing the cynical tone of that post. Would you mind being a bit more considerate?

Zeus · #91 Post by **Zeus** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:43 am

You have a point here. I just thought that the remark that was said to PVALIANT "you act like an antagonist" was not fair.

Pvaliant had good intentions, and such rude remarks should better be avoided.

#92 Post by **Erpy** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:51 am

Yeah, but I'm certain he can defend himself, so there's no real need to speak up on his behalf. Memories of the last locked thread in this folder are still fresh.

JLM5 · #93 Post by **JLM5** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:57 am

Zeus wrote:Valiant

The only way to have success is to RIP a sierra background and do some minor edits.For example rip a picture from longbow , make one stone bigger,add some leaves (or remove them the easy way of editing),
put a flower, and then baptize the background as PVALIANT ORIGINAL background work.

Hmm... what do you want to say to Valiant with this message?

Actually I have a little bored with the games that just use backgrounds from Sierra's games. A good example was QFG4½ that I never completed. The game contained many backgrounds and sprites, not just from QFG1 but also from KQ5 and KQ6. Of course I can understand it is much easier to capture backgrounds from other games than draw then yourself. However, I prefer that the Sierra's backgrounds belong to Sierra's games and they never look as good in other games.

And please, stop the arguing. It wouldn't be nice if this thread would be locked. Everyone has his own opinion about my backgrounds, and that's it.

#94 Post by **Erpy** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:05 pm

I personally think it's not so much a remark at PV, but a comment at someone else. You'd have to read the locked "how to remake SCI games the easy way" thread in order to get it though.

PValiant · #95 Post by **PValiant** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:45 pm

As i said before i'm really not bashing JML's work. Creating your own backgrounds is much better than ripping sierra gameowork

I really applaud all efforts as i know how hard it is to create a game yourself

I realize that the critizism can be too much and contra productive, however i felt i had to make this remark about the pictures and explain it afterwards. When someone is showing his of her artwork in forums like this, he or she asks for critics and everybody is open to give his personal opinion about the work, which only helps in improving it.

That said its really not so usefull continuing the discussion, i've made my point about the backgrounds. We'd Better return to the point where JML shows his stuff and we applaud him for his efforts

Blackthorne519 · #96 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:47 pm

I was just making sure PV wasn't being antagonistic in his criticisms. I'm just a little defensive around here, some people seem to be prone to ripping others down when they're just trying to make something fun and entertaining. But PValiant spoke well, and proved his points - in a constructive way, which is excellent.

I look forward to seeing more of JLM's works, including the elusive Dialogue pics.

Bt

JLM5 · #97 Post by **JLM5** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:48 pm

Blackthorne519 wrote: I look forward to seeing more of JLM's works, including the elusive Dialogue pics.
Bt

Thanks. But if I'd show too many pictures here now, then there wouldn't be anything to wait from the completed game...

Actually I have completed about 50 backgrounds, and the game itself will contain over 70 backgrounds. However I feel I have already shown too many of them here.

And about the dialogue pics, we have currently completed just one dialogue pic (including animation) and that's the hero's one. All the dialogue pics will be founded on photographs of real persons. But let's look forward, it may be I will post here one, when we have made more of them.

JLM5 · #98 Post by **JLM5** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:52 pm

JLM5 wrote:Thanks. But if I'd show too many pictures here now, then there wouldn't be anything to wait from the completed game...

Actually I have completed about 50 backgrounds, and the game itself will contain over 70 backgrounds. However I feel I have already shown too many of them here.

I wouldn't have to say that yet. I just realized I must ask still one opinion about one picture. This is one of the eldest backgrounds I have made and it's drawn about year ago. I'm really not sure if it's quality is equal to the other pictures I have shown here. So maybe I will replace it with a new background. But what do you think? Is it as good or bad as my other backgrounds?

anathoth8 · #99 Post by **anathoth8** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:29 pm

I think it fits quite nicely with the others. My only suggestion would be to touch up the path a bit. Right now, it looks a little like water colors, and doesn't fit with the rest of the image, nor with the look of the paths in your other screens. It shouldn't take too long to fix up, I'd wager.

MusicallyInspired · #100 Post by **MusicallyInspired** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:47 am

It kinda looks like you use the sharpen tool quite a bit on these pictures, us that true?

That said, the quality looks just like the earlier ones you've posted. They look great. However I think I agree with what Erpy said earlier about detail. But it's not too bad. In this state right now your backgrounds look good for both 320x200 and 640x480 resolution, but like Erpy said there are some backgrounds made in 640x480 that are just painful to shrink to 320x200. What you have now is quite good, but it would be even better if they had that 'unshrinkable' quality.

I'm looking forward to playing this game!

Background pictures

Re: colour use