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Who was the most evil of all?
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Author:  Ibanezrg82 [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Who was the most evil of all?

Who was the darkest, most evil, QFG villian?

Certain characters have been left out, such as the Brigand Leader, and the villian from Dragonfire. Vote for him on "other", and explain why.

Author:  Kloreep [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'd say the Demonlord. He was the only one trying to rain literal hell on earth. The others just wanted power, even if they mistakenly did things that would have also had terrible consequences for the world. (Or in Baba Yaga's case, she just seems to be grumpy and soulless.) Katrina I never quite understood, but her reasons for summoning the DO seemed to be more insane than evil.

Author:  Brainiac [ Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Katrina

Kloreep wrote:
Katrina I never quite understood, but her reasons for summoning the DO seemed to be more insane than evil.


She wanted to summon Avoozl so that her weakness to sunlight would no longer be an issue.  Under the Shadows of Darkness that Avoozl would bring, there would be no sunlight, thereby allowing her and all her vampiric kin to rule unhindered.  It was all about power and protecting herself from others.

As for my opinion, I'm tied between several.  Ad Avis simply due to his great talents but his choice to be so utterly vile make him quite the nasty bugger in my book.  And of course, the Demon Wizard and Demon Master are abhorrently nasty as well.  You could make a case for Minos being a nasty piece of work too - the whole "if I can't have it, no one can" mentality is not a good one to have.  Baba Yaga though, wasn't all that nasty (which is appropriate, considering she was the first major opponent).

Author:  Ibanezrg82 [ Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:21 am ]
Post subject: 

What about Katrina though?

I voted Ad Avis because of his actions in the games, but Katrina made him more powerful as a vampire, intentionally. Her motives had to be more evil than his, seeing as he was probably her apprentice at WIT.
If some remember one of her lines to Ad Avis in the endscene of Shadows, something like this, "I am a better wizard than you. I will ALWAYS be a better Magic User than you."
It leaves one to wonder who was truly more evil, the master, or the slave.

Minos I did leave out because he just did not compare with the others.
Minos was just a thug, no more exciting than Khaveen in the evil aspect.
Plus, I forgot his name.
Thank you, Brainiac.

Author:  Brainiac [ Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Katrina

Ibanezrg82 wrote:
I voted Ad Avis because of his actions in the games, but Katrina made him more powerful as a vampire, intentionally. Her motives had to be more evil than his, seeing as he was probably her apprentice at WIT.
If some remember one of her lines to Ad Avis in the endscene of Shadows, something like this, "I am a better wizard than you. I will ALWAYS be a better Magic User than you."
It leaves one to wonder who was truly more evil, the master, or the slave.


Katrina is redeemable.  If she wasn't, her soul would not have passed on to Hades.  Also, from what I understand, The Dark Master was already long expelled before Ad Avis sought "him" out, only to be very annoyed by "him" being a "her."  True, Katrina bound Ad Avis to her as a Vampire Slave, but he still turned on her, and she sacrificed herself to save The Hero.  Considering the ending of Shadows, and the described rage The Hero felt of Katrina's demise, I can't see her as irredeemable evil.

Ad Avis, however, I can see as irredeemably evil.  Perhaps not pure evil, like the Demon Wizard and Demon Master (or even the Dragon of Doom), but certainly quite high on the evilmeter.  While he may not have had as much magic power as Katrina, he still was quite potent and, in truth, Katrina bound him more to amuse herself at forcing the misogynist to be subservient to a woman of far greater skill.

Honestly, a lot of the unspoken backstory of Katrina makes her far too sympathic and tragic to be considered totally evil.  Ad Avis, however, does not have that benefit.

Author:  Ghost_Rider [ Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:00 pm ]
Post subject: 

I voted for Ad Avis, but I would say that the Demon Lord would be close behind.  Both of them are pretty close to pure evil.

Author:  traveler.in.time [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 

Ghost_Rider wrote:
I voted for Ad Avis, but I would say that the Demon Lord would be close behind.  Both of them are pretty close to pure evil.


Agreed,
that brings up an interesting thought, a demon who is evil (with no potential for being good) is considered less evil than an evil man (who would have the potential to do good, but chooses not to)...
that's almost philosophical

Author:  Ibanezrg82 [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:22 am ]
Post subject: 

I still think Katrina was just as evil as Ad Avis.
Just because you are in love, and would die for someone does not make you good.

Author:  Erpy [ Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 

Ibanezrg82 wrote:
I still think Katrina was just as evil as Ad Avis.
Just because you are in love, and would die for someone does not make you good.


Perhaps not, but there's still a major difference in attitude between Ad Avis and Katrina. Both are ruthless to the degree in that they're willing to take down whoever stands in the way of their goals. On the other hand, Ad Avis is a pure megalomaniac who only cares about complete power and complete control and the formerly glorious city of Raseir ended up in its sorry state completely because it was Ad Avis' idea of a utopion state. Mordavia had its share of problems, but many of them were caused by the Dark One's presence, rather than by Katrina...who seemed content to leave the local population alone as long as they didn't bother her. Katrina's desire to summon the Dark One was not caused by a desire for total power or control, unlike Ad Avis' aspirations, but by fear of being killed while lying asleep in her coffin.

So while Ad Avis can be classified as pure evil (knowing his actions were evil and not caring less), Katrina's actions were classified as horribly misguided...she didn't see her own actions as evil or wrong.

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Author:  Quest For Glory Fan [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:14 am ]
Post subject: 

I wont vote til I've played them all and beaten IV

Author:  Kloreep [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:10 am ]
Post subject: 

Erpy makes a good argument. Another point I'd make is that all her evil actions we have heard of seem to have been taken after she was already a vampire, and while I don't think QFG has ever defined exactly what happens when you become a vampire, most mythologies I've seen use the tack that becoming a vampire tilts you over into evil even if you were a nicer person as a human. While we don't know what Katrina was like pre-vampirism, she does seem to be much saner and not-evil if restored to humanity in Dragon Fire.

Ad Avis' pre-vampiric period, on the other hand, we saw plenty of. He was power-hungry, manipulative, and generally evil before he ever died in QFG2.

Author:  Ibanezrg82 [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:33 am ]
Post subject: 

Good points.

It would be cool if we had an early Ad Avis or Katrina Quest, written by the Coles, or others maybe.
Hey, I did vote for Ad Avis. Katrina has had equally evil moments in her time. The hero did get teleported to Mordavia. Katrina used Hero, up to the end. She also made a child vampire. Her motives were not dissimilar to Ad Avis when he tried to awaken Iblis in Shapeir.
In my mind Katrina was just slightly less evil than Ad Avis, and that is why I bring her up so constantly.
Her summoning Avoozl is a pure evil action, she would give free reign to all undead, including herself. If she got her way Mordavia would be nothing more than a stepping stone to the world for her, and Ad Avis.

QFGfan, play away. It seems you haven't played them all.
Start from QFG1 though, even if you played it 100 times.

Author:  Erpy [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:11 am ]
Post subject: 

Katrina is a complex character. Check this thread for some official background info from Lori Cole.

Katrina is ruthless, yes, and believes the ends justify the means. But she's not a megalomaniac and isn't interested in ruling the world or something, her summoning of Avoozl was because she foolishly believed she'd be able to control the creature. Her objective was to get rid of her one weakness...having to sleep helplessly in her coffin during the day. It's what made her hate being a vampire. She didn't see it as wrong to create an environment where undead no longer had to sleep. (being one herself) She admits in QFG5 she had no idea Avoozl would destory Mordavia.

In her own mind, she didn't "kill" Tanya. (you can accuse her of this in QFG4 and you'll get to hear her take on it) She was longing for a child herself and felt Tanya was unhappy and neglected by her parents. (not completely without reason) While it's uncertain whether Tanya was happy as an undead (as far as she was even aware of it), Katrina did go out of her way to make the child happy, giving her lots of toys, Toby to be with, played and danced with her and gave her an education...something she wouldn't have gotten in Mordavia. (upon her return, Tanya is the first literate female in Mordavia)

I wouldn't say being a vampire made Katrina more evil than she was. Her personality traits are very much her own, undead or not. She's not really in league with Ad Avis...she dislikes him intensely in fact...due to his misogyny. His goals aren't her own. (she tells him outright she's not interested in his petty revenge schemes)

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Author:  Quest For Glory Fan [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'm just waitiing for 2vga I've beaten one and 5 and gotten far in 3 many times before part of the game dies on me and I don't want to get to far into four until my import character is good enough. QFGIV is the hardest in the series stat wise, if you don't import its near impossible (or just hella tedious) and you can only work out so much.

Author:  Ibanezrg82 [ Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 

Her creation of Tanya was an ultimate evil act.

She tore Tanya away from her family with a giant teddy bear, and created a toy for herself.
She wanted to play Mommy.

Author:  Erpy [ Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

I wouldn't say Katrina turned Tanya into a "toy". She actually treated Tanya with both respect and care, more so than her parents did at the time. (though that was more due to the atmosphere of fear in Mordavia town, rather than bad parenting) While Katrina taking Tanya in wasn't exactly an act that would gain anyone paladinhood, I wouldn't classify it as an ultimately evil act either, since Katrina, by her own views, meant well.

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Author:  Brainiac [ Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Old quote

Erpy wrote:
While Katrina taking Tanya in wasn't exactly an act that would gain anyone paladinhood, I wouldn't classify it as an ultimately evil act either, since Katrina, by her own views, meant well.


"The road to hell is paved in good intentions"...or Hades, in Katrina's case.

Author:  Kloreep [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

Depends on how you define evil. Kidnapping a child away from her parents is pretty bad in my book. ;) But she certainly did mean well when it came Tanya herself, yes.

Author:  greensenshi [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Evil is different in everyone's book.  For the sake of argument, a good definition is evil is whatever actions go against the societal norm.  We have a pattern of how we do things, and those things are considered good in our minds.

Author:  Ibanezrg82 [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:31 am ]
Post subject: 

And so the new question Khaveen.

Khaveen was more evil than Katrina.

Author:  Erpy [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 

I'd say Khaveen is more cruel than Katrina, but also more mindless in the sense he's merely enforcing Ad Avis' reign upon Raseir rather than making his own plans. The fact that he's enjoying that so much, though, means he's only slightly below Ad Avis in terms of vileness.

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Author:  kosch [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who was the most evil of all?

the wraith. man those things were creepy!

Author:  CDA_91 [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:

Quote:
Agreed,
that brings up an interesting thought, a demon who is evil (with no potential for being good) is considered less evil than an evil man (who would have the potential to do good, but chooses not to)...
that's almost philosophical


I was thinking that, it's Ad Avis' choice to be evil that makes him the best villain and the most evil. The Demon Lord is just destructive by nature.

Author:  TheLonelyPaladin [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who was the most evil of all?

Now... when you say Demonlord... do you mean the Demon Wizard, or Avoozl?

At any rate Avoozl is clearly the most evil being in the series, as far as villans you actually face directly... I'm gonna have to go with The Dragon of Doom, followed by Ad Avis, followed by The Demon Wizard, followed by Bruno, followed by Katrina.

Baba Yaga is disqualified on account of her and the hero are all chummied up the end of IV.

Author:  Brainiac [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who was the most evil of all?

TheLonelyPaladin wrote:
At any rate Avoozl is clearly the most evil being in the series, as far as villans you actually face directly... I'm gonna have to go with The Dragon of Doom, followed by Ad Avis, followed by The Demon Wizard, followed by Bruno, followed by Katrina.

Baba Yaga is disqualified on account of her and the hero are all chummied up the end of IV.

If that disqualifies Baba Yaga, shouldn't being able to marry the resurrected Katrina in V disqualify her as well?

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