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 Post subject: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:02 pm 
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<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>How would you prefer communication to be handled in QFG2 - Keeping in mind that the game will be point and click icon-based (in the style of QFG1, QFG3 and QFG4).<br><br>A text parser would allow you to type in whatever topic you wish to ask or tell characters about, providing a greater challenge (like in QFG1 EGA and QFG2) . And would be for communication and bargaining ONLY (The rest of the game would remain point and click)...or;<br><br>A point and click dialog menu, which would allow you to simply click on predetermined conversation topics based on what you have done in the game so far. (like in QFG1VGA, QFG3 and QFG4)</FONT><FORM method=post action="http://pub57.ezboard.com/froyalquestforumsfrm1.processVote?topicID=384.topic"><table border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="55%"><tbody><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="1"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Option A: I'd prefer a text parser for communication</FONT></td></tr><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="2"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Option B: I'd prefer to have simplified point and click dialog menu</FONT></td></tr></tbody></table><P><input type=submit value="Vote"></form><a HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/froyalquestforumsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=384.topic&pollResults=on><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=1>Show results</FONT></A> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: A combination of the two styles.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:11 pm 
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I've said this before, and I will say it again.<br><br>Personally, I would much rather see a combination of the two in the communication interface. I've always felt the Leusire Suit Larry 7 interface is the best adventure game interface created to date, and here's how the communication basically played out: There would be a number of nouns to the right that would apply to most characters (in QFG2 it would be things like Shapier, Rasier, Desert, City, Brigands, what-have-you... and oviously, if the character didn't have anything specific to say about a noun, it wouldn't be listed on the right)<br>and you would also have the option to type in a noun not already listed, which would then be added to the list for that character, and asked.<br><br>Optionally, you could add keywords mentioned by the character in conversation to the list. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: combo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 10:28 pm 
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Either one works for me, although I voted for #1 since it would be neat to see how you handle a text parser dialogue in AGS.<br><br>I'm actually thinking about which of these I'll use in my game, also <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 2:29 am 
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I like them both, and I'm sure no matter which one you put in there it will work out very well. Personally, though, I tend to favor the point-and-click interface as opposed to text parsers. It took me a while to remember to spell "Shapeir" and "Raseir" instead of "Shapier" and "Rasier", although both worked in QFG2.<br><br>I do like the fact that the parser interface allowed for more options, however. You could ask anyone in town about the important, quest-related subjects, or you could just chew the fat. As I recall, you could talk to anyone in town about the Emir, the Desert, the Palace, and many other things that didn't have any relevance to finishing the game. They just made it feel like you were talking to a normal person...like you'd ask someone about the weather. It helped to give storyline and background to the game as well.<br><br>However, if you were to include all of those things in a GUI, the list would end up being HUGE! I think, if you do a GUI-only dialogue system, you could separate the general chitchat with the quest-related topics. For example, you could have a dialogue box with Abdulla in the beginning of the game that looked like this:<br><br>Ask about:<br> Name<br> Inn<br> Elementals<br> Spielburg<br> General<br><br>and if someone clicked on the "General" option, a new dialogue box would pop up like this:<br><br>Ask about:<br> Shapeir<br> Emir<br> Desert<br> Merchants<br>etc.<br><br>That way, you could ask about the stuff that only Abdulla would know about, such as Spielburg, or the Elementals, and you could still converse with him about things that all red-blooded Shaperians should know about, like the Sultan or the Palace.<br><br>As the game went on, and you learned more about the elementals from Keapon, Harik, or even just through daily events, more dialogue options would appear. That way, you couldn't ask Rakeesh about how to kill the Earth Elemental before you even knew that there WAS and Earth Elemental.<br><br>A good example for this could be the dialogue with Salim in QFG3. The more you asked, the more options that appeared.<br><br>But, as I said before, I'm sure however you do it, it will be perfect. LONG LIVE TIERRA!!! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>~Wolfgang <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:19 am 
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Actually, you CAN ask someone about the weather.<br><br>Allright, this is a tough one. The parser allows more flexibility, and I agree with Charles that the LSL7-system was great. However, it won't be just Sierra-veterans who'll play the game. Some newbies might experience the parser-part as awkward.<br><br>I agree that general topics could best be point&click.<br><br>But how about this? Make the mandatory topics point&click (i.e. the topics you need to understand the basic story and get required information) and keep optional topics in "parser mode".<br><br>An example would be the conversation with Erasmus in QG1. The important part there is to ask about the curse and the countercurse, as well as the magic mirror.<br>The optional parts are the remarks about nincompoops and necromancers. That way, newbies can finish the game without parser experience and veterans can enjoy finding funny (hidden or not) optional messages and remarks by experimentation.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://httpd.chello.nl/c.vanempel/Nashhapy.jpg"><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestforums.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=erpy>Erpy</A> at: 1/21/02 10:24:06 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:47 am 
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The funny thing about that Shapeir/ier spelling is that it's spelled differently throughout the game and Sierra's official manuals, it seems they didn't even know how to spell it <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>They also had this problem with Fenrus/Fenris. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 4:28 am 
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Now we're talking about Shapeir & Raseir anyway, that's something Tierra will have to fix.<br><br>It seems it's possible to travel between Shapeir and Raseir without the caravan. Just travel east (or was it west?) from Shapeir and after a 100 screens or so you'll reach Raseir. (where you'll be killed on the spot)<br><br>I've heard that if you travel from Rasier back to Shapeir (after the caravan event) you get an "oops! You did something we didn't expect."-error.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://httpd.chello.nl/c.vanempel/Nashtell.jpg"><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:50 am 
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That's neat, I've never heard of that one before <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:21 am 
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If you travel to Raseir without the caravan, you don't get killed. The guards just turn you back out into the desert because you don't have a visa. Actually, just the other week I actually wondered, "Gee, what would happen if I walked back to Shapeir once I'd already travelled to Raseir with the caravan?".. So I tried it. The game didn't crash for me, but as soon as I walked into the gates of Shapeir, the screen went black and it gave me a message saying something like, "The guard tells you that the caravan for Raseir leaves immediatley. you run to say goodbye to Shameen and Shema. They give you some food and clothing, and wish you luck, knowing you will need it." Then the caravan sequence to Rasier repeats again.<br><br>Ok, now onto the text parser side of things. The only problem with having a "combo" box is that it would be like double the amount of work we'd have to do to implement one. And if we were going to do all the scripting work that would be required to make a combo box, then it'd probably be more practical to just make two seperate versions of the game - a point and click version, and parser version (which could actually happen.)<br><br>But each side has it's pros and cons. Here's some more things to think about:<br><br>Text Parser Pros:<br><br>-More challenging<br>-Makes the game environment seem more alive and it's people more knowledgable and talkative.<br>-Allows for greater flexibility.<br>-Parser can be made to accept different spellings of words, and also to disallow you to talk about things that the hero has no knowledge about yet (such as the earth elemental, before it has appears in the game).<br><br>Text parser Cons:<br>-No different language translations of the game can be made.<br>-Newbies might have trouble with it (Although, I say that's their own fault for not growing up with the Sierra classics:))<br>-Some people just don't like text parsers in newer games.<br><br>Point and click Pros:<br><br>-Simplified Interface, which makes things easier and does most of the work for you.<br>-Matches the same style of communication in QFG1VGA, QFG3 and QFG4, for continuity.<br>-Some people just hate typing!<br><br>Point and click Cons:<br>-Lots of the original text easter eggs will have to be dropped from the game.<br>-Fighter who wants to become a Paladin can no longer say tell Khaveen "no/never" "yield" and "get sword", which would require us to re-work that scene (and several others in the game).<br>-The bargaining system would have to resemble that of QFG3 instead of using QFG2's.<br>-Characters seem less 'lively' since they only have a limited number of topics to talk about.<br>-Too easy! <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:07 pm 
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About the bargaining system, I didn't like the one in QG2 anyway. You type "bargain" and you get another fixed price. The ones in QG3 and QG5 seemed more realistic to me.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://httpd.chello.nl/c.vanempel/Nashnorm.jpg"><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Well
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:23 pm 
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The only reason I selected point and click is because I know some of my friends wouldnt play QG2 VGA if they needed to type stuff... <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: You know..
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:28 pm 
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Im all for having some options in which you can set the skill level of the game, and one of the options could be parser based or point and click... <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: You know..
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:42 pm 
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AGC2, what I'm strongly thinking of doing in <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/games3/ancientfrog">Adventurer's Quest I</a> is having both a text parser and icons.<br><br>I'm considering using the simplified point and click dialogue options when you click the talk icon on a character, which brings up the full screen dialogue pic. But if you just type in the parser, say, "ask about food," he'll tell you about food. I'm not sure if I'll do this or not, though. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: You know..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:41 am 
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Don't forget, people... they're just talking about typing for communication <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><b> ONLY!</b><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Not typing for everything. You won't need to type something like "Look at Fuzzy Bunny," "Pick up Fuzzy Bunny," "Rub Fuzzy Bunny's Tummy while silmultaniously patting your own head and reciting the lyrics to Thriller backwards" (like you could.)<br><br>It will probably be something like this: you click the talk icon on somebody, and it brings up the full screen dialog picture. Then you can type in either a person, place, or thing, like "Shapier" or "X-Ray Glasses" or "Rodent of Unusual Size." (Also, this way it'd be very easy to translate to different languages... no need to worry about grammer, or verb placement.)<br><br>Frogman, I'd recommend that you keep the typing simple... instead of "Ask about food," just click talk on the person, and be able to type in "food." No need to worry about sentence structure. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: You know..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 1:20 am 
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Simple is good, Charles, but remember that in Quest for Glory II you can type "ask about adventure", "talk about adventure", and "tell about adventure" and different replies will be given depending on which of them you type, so that really wouldn't work. Also, like in the EGA version, shortcuts could be implemented (ctrl+a=ask about, etc.) There aren't any complex verb placements to worry about, anyway, are there?<br><br>What I'm thinking about doing for AQ1 is if you click talk on a person, a QG3-4 style dialogue options list will be used, but if you're not already in conversation (just walking around) and type "ask about ___", you'll walk over to the character and he'll answer your question. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: To Frogman
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:25 am 
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You could just have the dialogue be similar to QFG3 & 4, in that if you wanted to ask someone about something, click the talk icon on them, and if you wanted to tell about something, walk near them and click the talk icon on yourself. That way, depending on who you clicked on, it would run a different dialogue script and you could use just one-word typing.<br><br>~Wolfgang <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Right... forgot to mention "Tell About"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:59 am 
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Ah, right. I remembered about "tell about" but I did forget to mention it. (btw, "talk about" and "tell about" are the same thing, but it is a good point.)<br><br>Wolfgang pretty much summed up how I was assuming "Tell About" could be handled.<br><br>Although, the thought occurs to me that it seems like too much trouble for the user (then again, so does having to type "ask about" and "tell about," to me.)<br><br>The futher thought occurs to me that if you were doing a Larry7 style, you could have a list of nouns to the right, as follows:<br><br>Ask About<br>Name<br>Shapier<br>Elementals<br>----------<br>Tell About<br>Name<br>Spielburg<br>Elementals<br><br>and if you click on either "Ask About" or "Tell About" then you get to type in a specific noun you wish to "Ask About"/"Tell About."<br><br>Just off the top of my head. Then you can avoid annoying extra motions, like typing ask about/tell about or clicking "Enough" then talk on your self just to add something to the conversation. But that's just how I'd probably approach the situation. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/ucharles269.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Charles269</A> at: 1/22/02 11:02:37 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Right...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:19 am 
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That sounds like a good system, but I don't think that could be done efficiently in AGS. Thanks for the ideas and stuff <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Right...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:26 am 
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Sorrry guys.. I hate to sound like an ass, but could you please keep the replies in this thread limited to conversation in QFG2 VGA.. it just takes a while to read through all the unrelated replies. If you want to keep talking about it, feel free to make a topic in the Game making forum, though. Thanks.<br><br>I was also thinking of doing something like that, where you'd click on a character and a menu pops up with 2 options:<br><br>-Ask About<br>-Tell about<br><br>Then you'd just click the appropriate option, and type in whatever word you wanted to ask/tell about.<br><br>And yes, Charles is correct, remember it's not a text parser for the entire game, but basically just single nouns (and sometimes an adjective followed by a noun) that you'd be typing - simply the things you want to talk about. You wouldn't have to type in full, "Ask About Shapeir".. you'd just click on the "Ask about" button and then type Shapeir, and press enter. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestforums.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=anonymousgamecreator2>Anonymous Game Creator 2</A> at: 1/23/02 3:52:40 am<br></i>


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 Post subject: Good Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:41 am 
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I think U Should Make it point and click because the first one is a text based game and i enjoy point and click better and plus the idea about clicking on ask about and tell about is a really good idea which i think u should use because it will make the game so much easier to use <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: My opinion, for what it's worth
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 2:18 am 
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I don't really care whether it's typing or point and click, but if it is point and click, you should do it like in Gabriel Knight 1 i.e. have a bunch of generic questions and some questions relevant only to the person you are speaking to. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: My opinion, for what it's worth
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:38 am 
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I think point and click is much better. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2002 8:31 pm 
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Dialog trees were one of my favorite improvements when Sierra went point-and-click. Works for me. <p>Ether will protect you from the Terrible Secret of Space.</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: QFG2: Communication Poll
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2002 3:06 am 
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point and click is better.<br><br>I never played 2 'cos of my dread of the "text" issues and I have a bad problem of remembering what to do/ask...hehe. :P<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: parser parser parser
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:34 pm 
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Dialogue trees = No Fun<br><br>Parser = Fun<br><br>Original QFG2 = Fun<br><br>QFG3 & 4 = Would have been more fun had they been parser <p></p><i></i>


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