SQ3 Remake project restarted

[rosel1]

Y'know, regardless of whether or not deleting his posts or replacing them with dots messes up the flow of threads, the posts he makes are his to do with what he wishes. If he later on decides that he doesn't like what he's posted and wants to remove it, he can. Many people do this, delete their own posts or edit the controversial parts out when they feel like they were in the wrong. Yeah, it messes things up for those of us who don't check the forum every 3 minutes, but if he doesn't want people seeing something he wants to take back, it's his prerogative just like it was AGDI's prerogative to not let LucasFan's machinations stay.

Sure, he could be doing this as a form of board terrorism, but that doesn't mean that we have the right to go all dictatorship on him and implement silly rules and take him to task for it. That's what free speech is all about, the right to say or not say whatever you want. We may not like it, but if we tell ourselves that we have the right to say whatever we want and not allow him to say whatever he wants, then we're no better than any two-bit dictator.

Sorry I'm getting all preachy on you guys, but I see people like Rog who I'll admit do stupid and childish things, but with good intentions, get slammed and flamed repeatedly by the so-called "respected members" of the forum, and all it does is create a hostile climate for newcomers and a cache full of suck-ups. Are we going to be known as the board that doesn't tolerate new people and new ideas if they don't conform with our strict narrow view of decorum? I, for one, would not like that at all.

I agree whole-heartedly  :)!  Thank you for your observations, Kurdt.  I think that people should have figured out by now that Rog was having a very bad day/week.  

Sure, I understand some of the frustrations.

However, that said...instead of attacking him...people should have made a point of contacting him to find out what was up if it was bothering them so much  :\ .

[Blackthorne519]

Are we going to be known as the board that doesn't tolerate new people and new ideas if they don't conform with our strict narrow view of decorum? I, for one, would not like that at all.

Shut up, hippie!!!!!!!

Actually, I talked to Robin privately about all this, because he made the effort to do so.  He's just trying to do something he likes, he's young and emotional, and sometimes big-bad-oldies like me thump new kids around a bit.  I got my licks when I was younger, but it made me stronger.  If I made an effort to talk to them, seriously and learn, it made a difference.  It totally did in the case of Rog/Phoenix Software/Rog.   I wish him the best, and I'm sure he'll do some great things for the amateur gaming community.  He really does love games and gaming, and it means a lot to him. He's just young and he stumbles a bit, and can be brash.  I mean, hell, I was when I was young too.  I still am.  I just fake better now.

Bt

[Parhelion]

"We must defend to the death their right to march, and then go beat them with baseball bats." - Woody Allen on the KKK

Well, I'm the only one who suggested implementing "silly rules," and A) I'm not that much of a regular and B) I liked Rog.  Besides, Erpy said right away that he wasn't going to do it, which I understand.  I didn't mean to suggest that he turn the board into a dictatorship.  Just something like the Brady bill (in the US we have to wait three days to pick up a gun once we buy it) to prevent people from doing anything they would feel stupid about later.

The new SQ3 remake looks like quite a project.  Khaveen is an amazing artist and his old VGA screenshots were proof of that.  SQ3 is by far my favorite in the series, and I'm eager to see what your group does with it.  I'm sure it will be great.

I love the site logo too.

[Erpy]

Meh, message boards ARE already dictatorships, because the leaders aren't elected and the visitors only get a say in things if the administration thinks that's a good idea.

***CENSORED BY NAVYNUKE04***

[navynuke04]

[Angelus3K]

Looks like your fighting a losing battle for Rog, Kurt. He deletes all his posts then comes back as another user called Code Master.

When will the madness end!

[Erpy]

Actually, Angelus, I think his general point is still standing, regardless of Rog's actions.

[Angelus3K]

Well thats me told then.

[GamerGal]

Why are people so mean?  What is it about our species that those who Should know better, engage in this pack mentality, kicking someone down, and stomping them, without knowing anything about them?  Why do others join in, even when the target has done NOTHING to them?  No excuses, folks!  Time to do a little soul searching!

Why am I taking this tone?  Simple.  As the world commemorates the end of WWII, and as some pause to consider the atrocities that happened during that time period, I am once again reminded of my own roots, and the suffering of my family, and by extension, myself.  I was 6 years old when I came to the US, a frightened, often confused child.  Adjusting to a new culture was difficult enough.  Learning a new language, while attending school, and trying to learn the academic subjects, was overwhelming.  I did my best, feeling very isolated and lost.  

One day, a little girl approached me and asked me where I was from.  Thinking that I was finally about to make a friend, I told her, "West Germany, but my family is Russian".  What I didn't realize was that she had singled me out.  I was different; I spoke with an accent, I had long, braided hair, and I wore "funny" clothes.  The next thing I knew, I found myself the object of hatred and scorn -- Nazi to half the school - "Seig Heil" still echoes in my memories!  Communist, to the other half ... even both, to some!  The irony -  Both my parents had been liberated by the US Army, after spending 5 years in Nazi camps.  I was born in a refugee camp run by the American Army.  Both my grandfathers had spent 10 years hard labor in Stalin's gulags.  I never met them; they died young!   Here, I was being beaten up almost EVERY day, BECAUSE I WAS BORN somewhere other than in the US!  The cruelty I experienced for the first six years in this school has left deep scars -- and made me a champion for those who suffer the same.  I CANNOT STAND BULLYING!

Hitler could never have done so much damage, without his henchmen.  So many were willing to set aside their humanity, and single out groups of people who had done NOTHING to them ... Jews, Gays, Gypsies, Slavs, Poles -  It didn't matter; all were "untermenschen", "subhumans"!   Why were so many, willing and able, to send little CHILDREN, women, old people, to a certain death?  These were their neighbors, people they worked with, attended school with!  And why does this continue to happen TODAY? ... in Darfur, for example.  In Rwanda, in 1994.  In Kosovo.

You may wonder, what does this have to do with this forum?  Again, very simple.  I have watched these forums with some interest for some time.  I have seen one particular person continuously singled out for some malicious, spiteful attacks.  Why?  He is just a young man, 17 years old.  He has done nothing that I can see deserves such constant malice and derisive antagonism.  Yet there are those, in their twenties, some going on 30! who contribute to this behavior!  Shame on you!  Is it because he is Portugese? Enthusiastic?  A bit impulsive, at times?  Make no excuses.  There is no reason for such conduct!  

These forums are supposed to be FUN, for those who enjoy games.  I am almost fifty years old, and I still love to play games.  They were my escape in childhood; they continue to provide a challenge in my adulthood!  "We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"!   And we grow old when we are mean!  It starts to show up in our faces; it even affects our health!

Why not make these forums TRULY open to all?  Welcome everyone, and let each person visiting here, feel free to enjoy themselves, and even on occasion, make a mistake or two, without crucifying them for it.  Surely, that is not asking too much of such a diverse, and seemingly nice group of people.  You have it in you!  Now develop that empathy and compassion which sets us apart from the animal kingdom!

Quite a few of you owe Robin/ROG an apology!  Quite a few of you have attacked him like a pack of vultures.  For those who did not resort to this conduct -- a big thank you!  You restore my faith in humanity!

And, if anyone chooses to attack me for this post -- I WILL KNOW I WAS RIGHT ABOUT YOU!    ~~  Mean people suck!  ~~  

[Khaveen]

JOE?????

[Angelus3K]

The only thing I had a problem with was when Rog started "pretending" to be other people. I view honesty as an important value and pretending to be someone else for whatever reason I think is wrong.

Nothing to do with Rog here but if someone's got a problem then they should be adult enough to talk about it. Which Rog did and everything was fine but then for some reason started deleting all his posts and changed his name again.

But thats fine if he wants to do that then let him, but I dont think I've ever attacked him? Maybe a joke here or there (which I apologise if I hurt his feelings) but like Bt said, all young people tend to clash with older people now and again its just the way life unfolds.

[GamerGal]

Angelus said:

like Bt said, all young people tend to clash with older people now and again its just the way life unfolds.

I said ... and I stand by what I said...

Make no excuses.  There is no reason for such conduct!

[Blackthorne519]

Well spoke, L.S.

He is just a young man, 17 years old.  He has done nothing that I can see deserves such constant malice and derisive antagonism.  Yet there are those, in their twenties, some going on 30! who contribute to this behavior!  Shame on you!  Is it because he is Portugese? Enthusiastic?  A bit impulsive, at times?  Make no excuses.  There is no reason for such conduct!  

I'd love to believe that the world is a tidy place where everyone can be lovely to each other, and non-confrontational.  It isn't.  I've been harsh sometimes on Robin because of his impeteuous attitude, and smarmy behavior at times.  I, however, have also not denied him encouragement, advice and general banter in my dealing with him.  Yes, I've been harsh sometimes - like I've said before, I've been dealt with this way, and I can say as a brash, impeteous young man, that sometimes being brusque with me was the only way to deal with it.

Life isn't perfect; people are going to be mean, no matter what you do.  What you can do is decide how is affects you.  I've been ridiculed for many things during my lifetime - I remember when I was a child, my "friends" would tell me how horrible I was at guitar.  It was disheartening, but I kept with it.  Now, my friends regard me as a terrific musician.  Time is your best friend in matters of skill, desire and want.  If Robin wants to make great games, perseverance, a keen eye, a thirst for knowledge and time will make all the difference.

Bt



Bt

[navynuke04]

I don't have a problem with Rog. If I offended him, I appologize. My only concerns are from an administrative standpoint. Registering a bunch of user names pollutes the database, and makes it more difficult to maintain. Having 70 some-odd posts recorded that only contain "....."'s also does a nice job of polluting things. I just wish he'd stick to one user name. If he want's to change his identity, he could IM an administrator. We have the ability to change usernames. Also, due to the fact that I have direct access to the database, I could do a much cleaner job of removing posts.

Anyhow, I have nothing against Rog. I think I've been spending too much time at work lately (where I'm writing a database driven web application). I've got databases on the brain...

[GamerGal]

Life isn't perfect; people are going to be mean, no matter what you do.  What you can do is decide how is affects you.
Bt

BT, you're quite right...Life isn't perfect. We have crime, for example, but we also have LAWS to protect and defend our society from thugs who would violate us and our rights.

We also have rules of etiquette ... and nice people don't bully, no matter how tempting.  That keeps society sociable!  And there are nicer ways of addressing situations that bother you, i.e. privately.

I've been ridiculed for many things during my lifetime - I remember when I was a child, my "friends" would tell me how horrible I was at guitar.  It was disheartening, but I kept with it.  Now, my friends regard me as a terrific musician.

 

How nice for you ... not everyone is able to deal with that kind of ridicule and hostility!

Time is your best friend in matters of skill, desire and want.  If Robin wants to make great games, perseverance, a keen eye, a thirst for knowledge and time will make all the difference.

You forgot encouragement!

[Blackthorne519]

You forgot encouragement!

True encouragement comes from within.  We as humans have the power to motivate ourselves, only we mostly choose not to accept that responsibility.  It doesn't matter what other people say, good or bad.

Encourage yourself, and others will follow.

Bt

[Parhelion]

Your posts are obviously well-intentioned, but as someone who's followed the "Rog vs. Everybody Else" thing, I'm just not following you.

First of all, to assert that Rog has done nothing wrong at all is simply not true.  Secondly, who bullied Rog?  Rog said a lot of very rude things, viciously attacked other people's work, and made a lot of spam-like posts  People did react, but nobody ganged up on him, and you're by no means the first person to stand up for him.

I'm sure that if Rog just picked one username and came back as a regular, this would all blow over in no time.  Because the people here are very accepting as a rule.  But I'm really surprised that anyone reading the forums here would take Rog's side in the matter so unquestioningly.

[GamerGal]

True encouragement comes from within.  We as humans have the power to motivate ourselves, only we mostly choose not to accept that responsibility.  It doesn't matter what other people say, good or bad.

Encourage yourself, and others will follow.

Bt

"Word of Encouragement" come from others ... Motivation comes from others AND from within, often driven by those we are surrounded by!  In addition, DISCOURAGEMENT comes from others!  That's why MENTORING is so critical and helpful, for disadvantaged and at-risk kids!

1)  Are you a motivator; do you encourage?  

2)  Do your words and actions discourage and hurt?

3)  Would you want someone to treat you as you treat others?

Once you are able to answer these questions honestly, you will become a better person ... and you will understand WHY I posted what I did.

NO EXCUSES!

[GamerGal]

Your posts are obviously well-intentioned, but as someone who's followed the "Rog vs. Everybody Else" thing, I'm just not following you.

Then you should probably re-read my post; but I will try to clarify it ...

First of all, to assert that Rog has done nothing wrong at all is simply not true.  Secondly, who bullied Rog?  Rog said a lot of very rude things, viciously attacked other people's work, and made a lot of spam-like posts  People did react, but nobody ganged up on him, and you're by no means the first person to stand up for him..

I never said he has done nothing wrong.  Re-read my post!  What I did say is, that he did nothing so terrible, such as using racial or ethnic slurs, degrading people for sexual orientation, marital status, etc.  Yes, he did on occasion say things a bit rude, and did attack some people's work ... BUT, when he came back with a new identity, he made every effort to be polite, and in fact, complimented people.  Suddenly, he began to be attacked AGAIN, and ridiculed for coming back with a new screen name.  

Was this necessary?  NO!  Was it meant to be hurtful and malicious?  YES!
Did it bring about a positive response?  NO ... we are still seeing this constant back and forth dialogue, villifying him!  NO EXCUSES!

I'm sure that if Rog just picked one username and came back as a regular, this would all blow over in no time.  Because the people here are very accepting as a rule.  But I'm really surprised that anyone reading the forums here would take Rog's side in the matter so unquestioningly.

You fail to understand my post.  I am not taking someone's side unquestioningly.  I am addressing the constant, vicious battering of a person who is simply trying to come back, with a new identity, and turn over a new leaf!

Have you never made a mistake?  Have you never felt the need to "save face", and try to start over?  Is it so difficult to address the person's behavior ONLY when it is truly offensive?  

Correct the behavior -- don't attack the person!  AND DO IT IN PRIVATE!!

As for bullying ... perhaps you need to re-read my post.  And maybe you need to read the definition of "bullying".  Yes, there were many who ganged up on him, and made snide remarks.

You say things would have blown over in no time?  Judging by the constant bringing up of his past behavior, I can see it DIDN'Tand Wouldn't have!

NO EXCUSES!

[Pidgeot]

Rog acted rudely on several occasions, so he has no one but himself to blame for whatever image he has. Upon looking through his later posts (those that haven't been dotted out), this repeats - instead of making well-formed, he still comes across as being rude on several occasions. It may not have been intentional, but since we did make him aware of it on several occasions, that should have started a warning bell in his head saying "Maybe I need to go over my posts an extra time before posting." (or something to that effect.)

Granted, if English is not your primary language, that is harder to do, but it's still not impossible - particularly not if you live in the UK. Had he also stressed that a bit more - that his primary language is Portuguese - we would be more understanding, as English is a hard language to learn. But he only mentioned it in one single post, and it was relatively easy to miss there. (Actually, he didn't even mention that, he just said he was originally from Portugal. If he came to the UK as a baby, English WOULD be his primary language, making his foreign background irrelevant.)

It is quite common for a person to act on a treat-them-as-they-treat-you-basis, but it works both ways. If you treat other people badly, people will treat you badly. If you are treated badly by someone, you will treat that person badly. Since the group knows nothing about you, you must take the initiative yourself, and treat them well.

Rog is actually living proof of that - when he came as Rog and came off as being rude, the rest of us acted according to that. But when he came back as Phoenix Software, he was very well-behaved - subsequently, this reflected in our behavior towards him. This didn't last long after the "unveiling", however, as he wasn't all that good at keeping it up. He still came off as being rude from time to time, so we felt that the Phoenix Software thing was an act.

The proper behavior in cases like that is not to make people think you're someone else, it's to stand up and make a sincere apology for your past actions, and then continue behaving well without exception. It may take a lot of guts to do that, but the resulting reaction will be so much greater - people will think "Hey, maybe this guy isn't so bad after all" when they see the apology, and the continued good behavior convinces people that this guy really isn't so bad - quite the contrary, he's a really great guy.

This post reflects the way I see the situation about Rog. And while I'm dreadfully sorry about what happened to you as a child (I too was bullied, so I can relate), I do not consider the two situations comparable - we have users from all over the world, but that doesn't prevent us from being nice to them.

And for a final comment:

You say things would have blown over in no time?  Judging by the constant bringing up of his past behavior, I can see it DIDN'Tand Wouldn't have!

Unless you're a psychic, you can't. Neither can Parhelion, for that matter. Only the people that did those things can say that, as they are the only ones who know how they would act in different situations, and even they will have a hard time, as it would be dictated by whatever behavior Rog would have used if he had stuck to one account. The rest of us can only make (more or less) qualified guesses.

[GamerGal]

Well, I tried ...

In an increasingly uncertain world, with so much chaos and confusion, young people are feeling lost and alone.  I thought these forums were frequented by people who had a sense of fair play, forgiveness, and a willingness to think outside the box.  Apparently not!

I stand by everything I said ... You can continue to make excuses ... but you are trying to defend the indefensible.

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT ... and for those of you who are sooooo much older, it's time to grow up, and help others do the same!

NO EXCUSES!

[Pidgeot]

(Note: if any of my posts seem incoherent, please take note that I am not a native speaker, and it's nearly 6 AM here.)

In an increasingly uncertain world, with so much chaos and confusion, young people are feeling lost and alone.

Not all young people are. I'm 18, but I neither feel lost nor alone. This despite being fairly atypical - how many 18-year old POKéMANIACs do you know? I know that I have friends and family who both have and will support me in time of grief, and I should doubt if Rog doesn't have this as well.

Back when I was the victim of the bullies, I still had friends who liked me and supported me. Heck, one of them went as far as trying to stop them - and was even partially succesful - and for that, I love her. (How can I not love someone who may well have saved my life?)

Even through that hard time, I never felt alone - because I knew that even though those bullies made my life miserable, there was always someone to turn to - there was always a friend who accepted me for what I was.

I thought these forums were frequented by people who had a sense of fair play, forgiveness, and a willingness to think outside the box.  Apparently not!

You can't draw that conclusion. We ARE willing to forgive, but not without reason. If someone wants our forgiveness, they must display some behavior that warrants a change. If a person had been mean towards you, and came to ask for forgiveness, would you forgive him without question? If you forgive him once, does that mean you'll also forgive him twice or thrice, still without question?

I stand by everything I said ... You can continue to make excuses ... but you are trying to defend the indefensible.

This is your opinion, and by all means - you're more than welcome to have that opinion and express it. However, that does not mean everyone else will share that opinion, nor does it mean that your opinion is not based on misunderstandings. I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just saying that it's a possibility.

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT

Nor does making the same mistake over and over, despite having been told about it, make it any less of a mistake - on the contrary, actually.

... and for those of you who are sooooo much older, it's time to grow up, and help others do the same!

Growing up is an individual process, and you cannot generalize on how it will happen. Meeting opposition like this can be a trigger, because you want to put that opposition to shame. This can be shown by posting responsibly, and making sure none of your posts seem offensive. Yes, it may take some time for people to realize it, but the reward will be that much greater.
If you aren't capable of changing your ways to seem more grown-up, then you will not be considered grown-up. It's as simple as that.

[Parhelion]

That was great, Pidgeot.  Wise words.

[Blackthorne519]

"Word of Encouragement" come from others ... Motivation comes from others AND from within, often driven by those we are surrounded by!  In addition, DISCOURAGEMENT comes from others!  That's why MENTORING is so critical and helpful, for disadvantaged and at-risk kids!

Encouragement can come from within; you must take the courage to believe in yourself and your convictions.  Mentoring is important, yes, but I will quote Greek Mythology when I say "The Gods help those who help themselves."  This is what internal motivation is about.  If you are to mentor someone, teach them this.

1)  Are you a motivator; do you encourage?

Actually, I believe I do.  I think that people who have worked with me and know me see that I do.  I never had anything but praise for an artist friend of mine who worked on some backgrounds for a game I'm working on.
 

2)  Do your words and actions discourage and hurt?

Perhaps sometimes they do.  I'm possesed of some jaded wit at times, but for the most part, I try to be helpful.  Sometimes my help does come out of a negative factor, but I'm not perfect,nor am I trying to attain what is rightfully divine.

3)  Would you want someone to treat you as you treat others?

 I do.  But when I see flagrant rudeness, I send it back sometimes as I recieve it, if I deem the person not sentient enough to see what they are dishing is wrong.  If they are concious of their personality flaws, and thrive on it, I won't give them the satisfaction of having it back.

Once you are able to answer these questions honestly, you will become a better person ... and you will understand WHY I posted what I did.

 I did - and I do understand why you posted what you did.  In fact, I think it's great.  I know you're a wonderfully intelligent, compassionate and talented woman, and I've enjoyed our many conversations in the past.  You're a wise person, who has done much and who I respect deeply.

NO EXCUSES!

 However, this seems to have a judgemental and thus negative edge.  Negativity begets negativity, which is why I see some of the responses illicited by some other members of the board.  I just like a good discussion and the free flow of ideas.  I think Pidgeot said some very wise things for a person of his age.

The world isn't always a nice place, but yeah - sometimes, we could do more to make it more pleasent.  And if at times, you loose some cool and can be brusque, make it up in other ways later - I've made just as many attempts at encouraging Robin as I have in being smarmy with him.  Actually, probably many more because I have talked with him privately on many occasions.

Bt

[Gronagor]

Well... if someone break Society's rules he should be punished. Punishment is a way to help someone clean up his act. Rudeness is a form of punishment.  :p