London Bomb Blasts

Message

Gronagor · #51 Post by **Gronagor** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:24 pm

Actually you could say 90% of today's terrorists are family members of those who were killed in retaliation for something they did (and they did that also in retaliation.) etc etc.

This thing has been discussed over and over. If you kill the culprits (and some innocent bystanders) their family members will mourn and probably want revenge. What makes them any more wrong than the other? That's endless cycle of death and destruction.

Israel, as Vildern pointed out, is a perfect example of this. The whole point has been lost there. The land-situation is just a convenient excuse for a never-ending payback. And if I were there, I'm pretty sure I would have re-acted the same. If your brother or sister is killed you won't have sympathy. You'll want someone to pay. No matter the circumstances.

I agree with LF, war isn't the answer. It probably feels great blasting the culprits, their families and other innocent bystanders to kingdom-come, but you'll have to live with the fear of retaliation. Their families (and the families of the innocents) weren't responsible, so what makes it any less right if they come for you.

I'm not saying what they did was right, just like I don't feel what's happening in the middle-east is right. Just like I don't feel what's happening in Zimbabwe is right. Just like I don't feel what Bush's corrupt government is doing to the US public is right........

Charlemagne · #52 Post by **Charlemagne** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:10 pm

Well said LucasFan, but I'd go even further. I'd say that not only is war never the answer, in this case it's completely meaningless. Victories in the "war on terror" or in Iraq are completely meaningless.

Last night I watched a documentary on the nature of al-Qaeda jointly produced by the CBC and The New York Times. It showed quite convincingly how the al-Qaeda of today is not what it was just a few years ago; what most people think it is. To a large extent it's now a movement growing from the grassroots. Disaffected and angry Muslims are converting to radical, extremist minority branches of Islam and independently planning attacks. You can arrest them and imprison them but new cells always appear. That's why George Bush's statements like "we've captured or killed 3/4 of their leaders and got them on the run" are completely meaningless. Such statements are based of a fundamentally flawed notion: that large terrorist organisations have a command structure. One might as well claim that he's killed 3/4 of all mosquitoes! Bush's words are little more than propaganda.

Add to that the fact that Iraq has become a magnet for a militants wanting to "fight the good fight" against invaders (or anyone who disagrees with them, really) and the situation has many European leaders worried. Al-Qaeda is stronger than ever and it's not obsessed with America. Europe has become a battlefield where winning victories doesn't mean anything.

Broomie · #53 Post by **Broomie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:27 pm

Again, my message has been interpreted wrong. I don't belive war is the answer, whether it's a just war or just a revenge.

Yet what is the answer? Wait for even bigger attacks to kill many more people until they get bored? When I say they should be stopped, I don't mean by destruction of their country by bombing it to death in hope that they were caught, they just need to be caught and brung to justice.

How many more of these attacks do we have to go through before one of our family members are involved, friends, or even a whole city of innocents. As someone said, whether it's 10 people or 1000 people have died, it's human life perished without a reason.

Charlemagne · #54 Post by **Charlemagne** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:51 pm

If you mean me, I wasn't trying to interpret your message. I was just responding to LucasFan.

Broomie · #55 Post by **Broomie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:39 pm

Well I'm not sure if that was meant at me (it was directed at Lucasfan since he quoted me) yet nevertheless I believe it was a strong message sent back.

Blackthorne519 · #56 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:22 pm

What's Going On
Mother, mother, there's too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother, there's far too many of you dying
You know we've got to find a way
To bring some lovin' here today, hey

Father, father, we don't need to escalate
You see, war is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate
You know we've got to find a way
To bring some lovin' here today, oh

Picket lines - sister - and picket signs - sister
Don't punish me - sister - with brutality - sister
Talk to me - sister - so you can see - sister
Oh, what's goin' on - what's goin' on, what's goin' on - what's goin' on
Heah, what's goin' on - what's goin' on, oh, what's goin' on - what's goin' on

Mother, mother, everybody thinks we're wrong
Oh, but who are they to judge us
Simply 'cause our hair is long
Oh, you know we've got to find a way
To bring some understanding here today

Picket lines - brother - and picket signs - brother
Don't punish me - brother - with brutality - brother
Come on, talk to me - brother - so you can see - brother
Now what's goin' on - what's goin' on, yeah, what's goin' on - what's goin' on
Tell me what's goin' on - what's goin' on,
I'll tell you now what's goin' on - what's goin' on

(M. Gaye/A. Cleveland/R. Benson) 1971

Broomie · #57 Post by **Broomie** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:58 pm

R. Benson? Robbie Benson sang this aswell? Wow, that's pretty cool. If it's a different R. Benson... well that's cool aswell.

Blackthorne519 · #58 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:28 pm

Bromios wrote:R. Benson? Robbie Benson sang this aswell? Wow, that's pretty cool. If it's a different R. Benson... well that's cool aswell.

Robbie Benson was born in the 70's...... the song was recorded in 1971!!!!!

Those are the authors. Marvin Gaye sang it.

Bt

London Bomb Blasts

This song is amazing - The original, not that crappy remake!