KQIII

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Draco62 · #1 Post by **Draco62** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:26 pm

Hey I just finished playing KQIII from IA and loved by I was wondering about how AGDI would have done differently since they made so may changes to KQII and add some forshadowing of the later games?

#2 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:45 pm

Wookie once said it wouldn't have been a complete overhaul and it wouldn't have been a 1:1 remake either. Somewhere in between. The story would have remained the same and characters would have remained in their old roles, as opposed to KQ2+ in which several characters switched the good/evil side or at least fulfilled completely different roles in the story. Basically better graphics, more music, more descriptions, more dialogue, some gameplay streamlining, slightly extended intro and ending, but no major plot changes like in KQ2+.

Draco62 · #3 Post by **Draco62** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:40 pm

That sounds good I am so glade that their people out there like AGDI and IA that make these things. It inspires the rest of us to do and be as creative with what we like. Thanks again!

Cadbury Wookie · #4 Post by **Cadbury Wookie** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:15 pm

I remember looking at KQ3 at considering where we would go with it. I think the game as is has a good, solid story at its core... the first of the KQ series to do so.

As a result, building an entirely new story into it might make it feel a bit too "busy", narrative wise. But there's probably a chance here and there for some extra interaction, etc.

But kudos to IA all the same. Great effort, guys!

Blackthorne519 · #5 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:22 pm

Cadbury Wookie wrote: But kudos to IA all the same. Great effort, guys!

Thank you very much, sir.

Bt

Kurdt · #6 Post by **Kurdt** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:35 am

If there was ever an AGDI KQ3 remake, IA would totally be behind it, too. When we made the game, we made it for fans of the original to play it in a 1:1 environment. While we did add little "perks" like an extended intro and some cool cutscenes, we felt they were more in line with Sierra's VGA remakes because they didn't change anything, but rather simply went one step further with what we were able to do (Oracle scene comes to mind). None of our new scenes involve any Father-type character or overreaching plotline or anything like that. We strove to simply update a game we felt was too much of a classic to overly mess with.

If AGDI was to remake this game, I'd imagine they'd put their own spin on it and probably involve their Father storyline in some small background detail. Personally, after replaying KQ2+ relatively recently, I'm interested in seeing where that story goes. Like Wookie said, however, the KQ3's story is already there so I don't imagine TOO much would change. Why fix what ain't broke?

AGP · #7 Post by **AGP** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:54 am

IA might be behind another KQ3, but I sure wouldn't be. Too many games to remake for the community to step on its own toes. QG1, for one, could benefit from an AGS update (same graphics and sound but for Windows this time). It would match it with AGDI's QG2. And recently I tried playing KQ5 using DosBox, and it was, to me, unplayable. I got a few graphical glitches and performance annoyances. Also, why not incorporate whatever story Mask of Eternity had, and lots of its elements, and make a brand new King's Quest 8? KQ3 has been done very well. It needs not be messed with again.

adeyke · #8 Post by **adeyke** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:00 am

Remaking VGA games would really be a waste of time. The development time wouldn't be much different from that of a full remake; even if the graphics already exist, the scripting would still have to be done from scratch, and that's what takes so long. And, after all that time spent working on it, the end product would be something that already more or less exists. Fans wouldn't really have anything to look forward to if they can already play the games fine with DOSBox and/or the unofficial patches, and there's much less satisfaction with a direct port than with a remake ("Aren't the graphics and music of our game wonderful? Well, we didn't have anything to do with either of them.").

I think having multiple remakes of one game, showing the different interpretations and ideas the different groups have would be preferable to having a "remake" of a game that's basically exactly the same as the original.

As for MoE, I really don't think there's anything there to salvage.

Kurdt · #9 Post by **Kurdt** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:31 pm

I liked MOE as it is. It wasn't really anything resembling the traditional KQ game, but it wasn't a bad game in its own right. I view it like I view Heroes of Might & Magic in comparison to Might & Magic. They're both in the same universe, but different types of game. If there was one thing I'd change about MOE, I'd make the graphics a little better. Those old 3D graphics look very shoddy, IMO.

AGP · #10 Post by **AGP** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:34 pm

I wrote what has to be some 40% of the entire Quest for Glory VGA game in Java (AWT) from scratch a few years ago. Took me about two months of dedicated work to do that, and that's including the time it took to rip the graphics from the engine. Given another two months, I think I could have finished it. If I only had somebody to team with, it would actually be fun for me.

Adeyke, you would know: where is that FACS message board Perdita's husband made for her after she left Sierra's?

Kurdt · #11 Post by **Kurdt** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:36 pm

I don't think FACS exists anymore. I tried looking for it a loooong time ago but couldn't find it. I think Perdita and Guque lost interest. Similarly, I was surprised to discover the Halfwittenburg Door was still around.

EDIT: Now that I look, I think it was all essentially absorbed into adeyke's boards.

adeyke · #12 Post by **adeyke** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:41 pm

The FACS is no more. It was originally here. However, because no one posted there at all for a long time, it was eventually merged the Common Room (a forum dedicated mostly to the Krondor/Antara games).

Kurdt · #13 Post by **Kurdt** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:44 am

Damn, talk about blasts from the past. I get a fresh hit of nostalgia every time I read a post on that forum.

AGP · #14 Post by **AGP** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:41 pm

I know what you mean.

decoy_maloon · #15 Post by **decoy_maloon** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:03 pm

Hi,

I was wandering around and I saw the comment on a KQMOE remake. It's been a year or so that I tried to rethink MOE as a classic Adventure Game.

I found it really challenging just for the story side because the original game is designed as an Adventure hack and slash.

I think, major plots improvements are mandatory to create a story standard to the Adventure game style. I do it only for fun and to improve my KQ lore (and English) but I think it is quite a challenge to create a decent story that would reach the summits.

My work is closer to fan fiction writing but if I'm ever statisfied with it, I might look into the game remake business someday :p

Decoy Maloon

Sinister · #16 Post by **Sinister** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:41 pm

MOE is something else completly. I look at it in the same manner that Kurdt does, it's simply a game in the same universe of kq quest.. but I fail to fully accept it as KQ8.

The idea of turning MOE into a "classic" adventure game (like kq5 or kq6) is doable, without going too deeply into a crazed "fanfic" type of plot. However if you are going to try and remake a game from scratch, about a loved series you might as well do a new game altogether. Then claim the title of of KQ8 much like TSL tried to claim the "Kq9" title.

On a last note, I'd rather play as Graham ten times, than playing as Connor.

DonQuixote · #17 Post by **DonQuixote** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:30 am

A KQ MOE remake? I was disappointed with the direction KQ took with that game, but I don't think there's too much wrong with it nor do I think it needs any updates. I am looking forward to the KQIX release.

DonQuixote · #18 Post by **DonQuixote** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:35 am

Sinister wrote:MOE is something else completly. I look at it in the same manner that Kurdt does, it's simply a game in the same universe of kq quest.. but I fail to fully accept it as KQ8.

The idea of turning MOE into a "classic" adventure game (like kq5 or kq6) is doable, without going too deeply into a crazed "fanfic" type of plot. However if you are going to try and remake a game from scratch, about a loved series you might as well do a new game altogether. Then claim the title of of KQ8 much like TSL tried to claim the "Kq9" title.

On a last note, I'd rather play as Graham ten times, than playing as Connor.

Heck they could have just gone with QFG format if they really wanted to bring KQ's into the RPG would; but I honestly think KQ was best as an adventure game format.

decoy_maloon · #19 Post by **decoy_maloon** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:38 am

I do agree with most of youre statement.
I don't want to virtually translate the game into an Adventure fashion.
I would want it to be a completely new game with some basic simillarities like the mask as the main quest item, Connor as protagonist and Lucreto as vilain. It would be like pressing the reset button for MOE.

And about playing Graham of course it would always be great but I always felt Connor was an interesting character that was poorly developed.
He was dull as a rock and the voice was really annoying. Zound ! I was painfull to play.

As harmful as it could be, I gave the game another try on WinXP last year. Then I made some research and saw how much more the game was suppose to be. The technical flaws really hurt the game developement and cut of most of the characters and plot. I learned that the Witch was suppose to be a main antagonist. She is seen for 3 and a half seconds before you slay her... sad.

That is why I think that as an adventure game, MOE would have been greater with a story developement, deep vilain and deeper hero.

Decoy Maloon

Sinister · #20 Post by **Sinister** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:47 am

Yeah i can't wait for TSL to come out, though Im still having some issues their last demo (My nVidia card seems has some issues with it). I was a little bit bummed that Vivendi tried to shut them down and later forced them to remove the "official" King's Quest name from their game, what can you do really? it was bound to happen.

Yes, perhaps if they had done MOE in a similar style to QFG and developed the characters and story (and made some aspects of the game actually relate to the world of King's Quest) then the game would have been much better.. or not as bad (depending on your particular stance towards it).

What bugs me most out of it is, that the game has almost nothing to do with King's Quest.. look at the maps, the references.. and thats product of having people develop a game who never actually played the original series. Sierra was trying to coin-in a new audience and MOE just flopped from every point you look at it.

Im not saying its a bad game, as "any" type of game from that genre it would have had a decent chance of being perceived as good. But the case was that people who looked for that sort of genre, just wouldnt buy it because of the King's Quest brand it carried "a mark, you as a consumer would not expect on a game of that sorts, so they opted for other titles.

And the hardcore KQ fan bought it and didnt like it, so overall the game missed every spot as a product of bad creative choices and bad merchandising.

It's not till recently that people sit down and play it once more to give it another chance and see it in another light, but sadly for Sierra its too late.

DonQuixote · #21 Post by **DonQuixote** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:00 am

The times are just changing. The old Sierra games (with the exception of Larry) have pretty much stopped where they were, but the amount of loyalty the old fans show and they amount of work some put into webpages, forums, remakes, fan art, fan fiction, etc. is just amazing.

I think King's Quest already hit it hard with KQ7 and MOE was an attempt to try something new with the King's Quest name, unfortunately they tried too much too late. I still bought it and played it but it's one of the few games I've bought and never finished. I think MOE would have been a bigger hit if it kept the old adventure style and entered the 3D world with a style similar to the Longest Journey. The quasi-RPG style just seemed pointless.

decoy_maloon · #22 Post by **decoy_maloon** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:57 pm

I don't really like the idea of having a MOE remade as a QFG. We all know how a KQ should be : puzzle, riddle and headhaches ;)

I think a MOE pretending to be a KQ should at least avoid violence and combat as possible or leave it for the more dramatic moment (like in KQ6 for instance).

I would even drop some plots elements that justify the hack and slash style like the cataclism that brings hell on earth and turn the fairy tale into a Diablo clone.

Sinister · #23 Post by **Sinister** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:08 pm

Yes, both of you are completly right.

Adventure games where just not working at that time, atleast not in the classic format.

Good thing is though that Adventure games are still being made by people like AGDI and IA, and im damn proud to be a part of it.

DonQuixote · #24 Post by **DonQuixote** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:29 am

decoy_maloon wrote:I don't really like the idea of having a MOE remade as a QFG. We all know how a KQ should be : puzzle, riddle and headhaches ;)

I think a MOE pretending to be a KQ should at least avoid violence and combat as possible or leave it for the more dramatic moment (like in KQ6 for instance).

I would even drop some plots elements that justify the hack and slash style like the cataclism that brings hell on earth and turn the fairy tale into a Diablo clone.

Ya, the two were different and differently liked for a reason. MOE was okay... but it just wasn't King's Quest.

DonQuixote · #25 Post by **DonQuixote** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:33 am

Sinister wrote:Yes, both of you are completly right.

Adventure games where just not working at that time, atleast not in the classic format.

Good thing is though that Adventure games are still being made by people like AGDI and IA, and im damn proud to be a part of it.

Ahhh but this not true though, there are still a variety of adventure games available and new ones coming out; take the Myst and Longest Journey series for example. I actually really enjoyed the Longest Journey and can't wait to get my hands on the recent sequel Dreamfall. I got the first one as a gift and even thought to myself--this is kind of like King's Quest. The challenge exists in keeping a good plot, developed characters, better graphics, larger worlds, more puzzles... a bigger bang for one's buck. King's Quest failed to do that with MOE, instead of expanding on the idea that always sold, they changed it. Adventure gaming is still alive and well :D It only dies out when one fails to innovate.

KQIII

KQIII

cool

KQ MOE

KQ MOE

MOE

Re: MOE