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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:04 pm 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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I don't know about that. One of my brother's friends exhibits the following symptoms is his copy of World of Warcraft is denied from him for any long period of time, or if he is disturbed while playing:

-Uncontrollable shaking.

-Sleeps all day and plays all night.

-Governmental financial aid, intended to assist the unemployed, is used solely to fund his habit.

-If the individual is urged to get up and do something else, little acknowledgment is given. The head remains facing forward and the eyes remain fixated on the screen. Sometimes a low grunt will be emitted, which makes it clear that the subject has no desire or intention to stop any time soon.

-In the event that the individual is forced to stop playing in order to attend a social event, conversation topics with said individual (which are completely unrelated) are still littered with remarks about Dwarves, Guilds, and the Clan. This often results in the listener dissociating from the conversation and uncomfortably glancing around his surroundings at other things which he obviously considers more exciting, such as the curtains or light bulbs. In extreme cases, the listener will sometimes walk away mid-sentence!

-Has claimed that he's throwing in the towel about 20 times, only to resume playing again after discovering that Blizzard added more new content.


Now, compare the above symptoms to an uncle of mine who acts exactly the same way if you replace the term "World of Warcraft" with "bottle of alcohol" and you'll see where the lines get a bit blurred, so to speak.  :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:31 pm 
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AGC2, respectfully, those are mental and social problems (with the possible exception of uncontrolled shaking, which may just as well be a sign of anxiety).  The fact that this man retreats into the comfort zone afforded by the game is not necessarily indicative of addiction.  There is the possibility of extreme social anxiety or any number of other problems (I'm no psychologist).

But I digress.  My original point was that the threat of "video game addiction" is a foolish reason to avoid a game, a genre of games, or games altogether, especially when one considers the fact that, as ulmont said, there is no physical addiction involved -- rather, there is the propensity in a very small minority of the population to develop a mental one for reasons that have not yet been fully explored.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:33 pm 
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Well, I must admit that a couple of those entries were added for comedic effect, but I do believe it's possible for people to become addicted to MMORPGs. There's a Wikipedia article about this very topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_addiction

...and:

http://www.olganonboard.org

I'm sure that many people probably do play these games to to escape from social pressures or as a result of social anxiety. But the way they are structured also makes it entirely possible for an otherwise 'healthy' gamer to become easily addicted. MMORPGs go on and on, there's no true ending. New content is always being added.  This could make socially inept people become even more withdrawn by luring them away from a social environment. But it could also draw a regular person in just as easily.

MMORPGs are unlike conventional games, in that they require a significant investment of your life and your time to 'progress'. Progress isn't based on how quickly you can think of puzzle solutions or how fast your trigger finger is at shooting enemies to reach the end. Instead, it's based on a slow-rising stat/development system which encourages players to sit for long periods of time, as this is the only way to improve your character.   But in doing so, you're getting no closer to any real goal.

So if a person is playing a game in which they know they cannot truly reach the "end", yet they still continue to invest nearly all of their time into it, what genuine purpose could they have for continuing to play it, other than addiction?  These are not games with a beginning, middle, and end in a classic storytelling sense. They are games that involve their players in such a way that the longer you have played, the more you feel you have to play. Giving up probably feels like losing something tangible which a lot of time and effort has been invested into. The psychological effect is very real.

I remember one time I was playing Runescape and some punk got me killed. I lost a fortune in gold coins that I was carrying. I didn't care too much about what happened in the game, because I was only playing it casually on and off to see what it was like.  But even so, I was really pissed that I had lost so many coins in one moment since it had taken me quite a while to collect them all. There was no save/restore button to get them all back. I had to start from scratch. At that point it became apparent to me just how easily MMORPGs could affect some people who have heavily invested a lot of time and effort into them, especially those who take them more seriously.

I agree that the addiction is a mental one.  But, it's still a form of addiction nonetheless which requires willpower and perhaps even therapy to overcome.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:01 pm 
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I definitely think that's the problem - MMORPGs. I've occasionally played one of my brother's characters in those games, not to actually play but to mess with other people who are playing (yes I realize that's pretty sadistic but I never thought that there are people out there who actually value their virtual life on some game more than their real life). Seeing people's reactions to when I would act like an idiot or act like a jerk to them really opened my eyes. Those games can be extremely addictive to some people, and yes some people might be more vulnerable than others but I don't think my brother's addiction was a symptom of some larger problem. He used to play sports in high school, had lots of friends, etc. He definitely did not have any serious social problems. Now he's a different person.

What scares me are games like Second Life. I was amazed to find out that there is actually an exchange rate between the money used on that game and real money. Games like that show the huge plus of Quest for Glory. There's a beginning, middle, and end. Yes, you can spend a lot of time trying to max out your skills but eventually you finish. It's not a game you can play indefinitely.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:32 pm 
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Quote:
What scares me are games like Second Life. I was amazed to find out that there is actually an exchange rate between the money used on that game and real money.


This is actually true of most MMORPGs albeit for most it's a borderline violation of the usage agreement. In fact this "money to game-money exchange" is so popular that certain companies hire people just to farm money to sell. This in turn has a drastically negative effect on the in-game economy. It all makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

In regards to the storyline, I concur that having an ending is important to me for a game. In fact, I love it when games have multiple endings -- it adds a great deal to the replay value. A couple of games I can think of along those lines are Blade Runner for PC and the Star Ocean series for Playstation. Not too many PC games I can think of that do this though...


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:49 pm 
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If you're searching for games with multiple endings, then Chronotrigger immediately comes to mind.  What was it, 8 or 9 in the SNES version and around 12 in the Playstation remake?

Edit: I somehow think we got off-topic ^_^


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Deus Ex also has multiple endings, but that game's a bit far afield from QFG. :)

As far as QFG-like games go though, I can't really think of any. If you like hybrid adventure/combat games, you might try a space exploration/warfare game called The Ur-Quan Masters (it's freeware now, too!) but it's quite different from QFG's adventure/RPG style, and lacks any kind of stat-tracking RPG elements - there's ship customization and that's it. I recommend it because it's a nice blend of thinking/talking your way through things, and fighting when things get out of hand. Plot's decent, and the game has a good sense of humor, also reminiscent of QFG.

I think someone already mentioned Planescape: Torment. I haven't finished it yet, but I can already tell you it's a good RPG, though also quite different in style from QFG. If you like that style of RPG, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is good too. (That one has different endings too. :))

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Back when I was a younger, and before the internet (the BBS/Telnet age) I used to play alot of text based MUDS (predecessors of MMORPG basically) and I can tell you, those things WERE horribly time consuming to play.  Not only did you have to devote alot of time to levelling up at some point, but you always had other people who seemed to have no life and they could devote huge chunks of time to playing unless you competed (I hated competition) or gave up.  it CAN get really addictive, even up to the point of paying real money for electronic items in a game (Saw it happen, though this was more locally.)   Nowadays, time just isn't something I have as much of, so I avoid MMORPGS like the plague (too easy to get addicted.  I was addicted to the MUDs.)   And any free time I do have for gaming goes to single player games :P

Though I did try a little diablo 2 multiplayer once in awhile...


As for the main topic, I've always kinda felt that modern games tended to "merge" parts of older genres together - I mean nowadays you have few "pure" RPGs like you used to have with the earlier installments in  Ultima or Wizardry or Bard's Tale (The closest is the Elder Scrolls series or D&D like games like KOTOR.)   Nowadays you have stuff like Final Fantasy which hage alot of graphics and story but only some RPG ellements (mainly levelling up) - you don't create/name your own characters or pick their classes, and graphics and story and even some puzzle solving make up greater parts of it.  You also have alot of action/adventure or action/RPG type games, or strategy/RPG.

QFG of course was one of the earlier hybrids,  and later versions of ultima (say Ultima 5 or 6) started this path as well.  I think QFG 5 and Ultima IX in partticular showed just how the gaming series had changed as well.

Anyone remember the sierra game Aracanum?  That always kinda remidned me alot of QFG, despite not being an "OBVIOUSLY" QFG game.  I sometimes wish they'd made mroe of that series, it was quite innovative.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:15 pm 
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Quote:
Anyone remember the sierra game Aracanum?  That always kinda remidned me alot of QFG, despite not being an "OBVIOUSLY" QFG game.  I sometimes wish they'd made mroe of that series, it was quite innovative.


Not sure if it is exactly what you want, but Arcanum was basically the spiritual succesor to Fallout and Fallout 2.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:48 pm 
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I never played either Fallout (which I will when I'm done re-playing Monkey Island) but I hear they're good games.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:29 pm 
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I've played all 3 (and Fallout Tactics) and I think Arcanum and Fallout are separate games completly due to the atmosphere change. All of which however are in my top favorites.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:36 pm 
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But the game mechanics are pretty much the same, and they were made by the same developers, that's why I refered to Arcanum as the spiritual succesor to Fallout.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:29 am 
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Of the Games that make mind race like QfG :

Fallout 1 and 2 (I never gave Taticts much of a Chance)

KoToR 1 and 2 (I liked the Story's and Gameplay wasn't to bad)

Edit*

Also Vampire: The Masquerade Redemption(That was a bad ass game, if you haven't played it I really suggest it, standard RPG puzzles but the game has 'that feel' )

there are other games that I enjoy replaying but aren't even close to QfG

whats bad about Quest for glory is that it is truely an unique game. Maybe one day adventure games (or games that make you investigate your surrounding to progress) will come back into style, then, and only then I will see games that give me the feeling of accomplishment as I received from QfG series.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:39 am 
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You shouldn't have brught this back, but I must say that Adventure games ARE making a comeback, and it is thanks to a 6-foot talking dog and a hyperkinetic rabbity thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:56 am 
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Boogeyman wrote:
You shouldn't have brught this back, but I must say that Adventure games ARE making a comeback, and it is thanks to a 6-foot talking dog and a hyperkinetic rabbity thing.


Well then, thats awesome, I might have to try those out one day, then maybe we will soon see another game that does for modern generation that QfG series did for me.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:35 am 
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"whats bad about Quest for glory is that it is truely an unique game. Maybe one day adventure games (or games that make you investigate your surrounding to progress) will come back into style, then, and only then I will see games that give me the feeling of accomplishment as I received from QfG series."

To you and the people who said Oblivion has no puzzles: I'm playing it now and I'm in the middle of one quest (out of hundreds, that's how complex the plot is) in which I have to ask around about the theft of a painting, and after I interviewed everyone I had to start searching for clues. That's the kind of investigation not possible in any Quest for Glory game.

Much as I love the series, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 kick Quest for Glory ass. And I think Oblivion kicks their ass. KOTOR 1 and 2 I loved, but I guess I wouldn't put them over the Quest for Glory series.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:32 am 
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Hmmm... weird. All of those seemed a bit 'flat' to me plot-wise. Never really felt like you were part of it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:30 pm 
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Allow that the younger we are, the more impressionable. Quest for Glory has a lot of nostalgic value for us, but I don't see my children falling in love with it. Oblivion, to me, is the stuff dreams are made of. The graphics are insane, and the plot is rich with characters with a lot of backstory. I had never played an Elder Scrolls game until a month ago, but I'll be the first to buy V (if they make it).

I have a VR headset, and to ride a horse while wearing it is breathtaking. It puts the VR in Disclosure to shame. If only console companies would wake up to the fact that the Wii pretty much proves people are very much interested in virtual reality and would make a closed VR system, complete with gloves and a headset, it would be insanely cool.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:44 am 
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Oblivion just didn't cut it for me, it seemed really dry, and unattractive, I mean it was very well done graphically, but they were missing so much more, there was no... emotion, no real sense of adventure, often i really felt like I was the single real person in a world of robots, no real sense of urgency, I could do the main quest whenever I wanted, I mean that was part of the appeal, but for me it just took away from reality and realism of the game, I hear that Fallout 3 will be working on making sure the game feels real.

Thats one of the reason games like Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect are so awe inspiring, is not for any revolutionary gameplay or graphics, its their complete focus into the story, and especially the character development. In my opinion the best game of all Time is Half-Life 2 because it gives me the same sense of being the hero like in the Hero of Quest for glory. Oblivion will have its place in the world not for being an awesome game, but defining what a modern day rpg/adventure should have, the secret about making awesome games is taking what wasn't liked and fixing it, then taking what was liked and working with improving it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:27 am 
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I think Oblivion is an insanely awesome game. As for, "the secret about making awesome games is taking what wasn't liked and fixing it, then taking what was liked and working with improving it," according to Gamespot, that's what they did with Oblivion (from Morrowind, which I haven't yet played).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:37 am 
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Games I've come across (or rather, tracked down) that I feel resemble Quest for Glory a lot are The Fifth Disciple, Arcatera: The Dark Brotherhood and Gooka: The Mystery of Janatris. The three have their fair share of puzzles, with Fifth Disciple being in my opinion the best. Arcatera is, I'm afraid, fairly awful, and I recommend that everyone avoid it unless they're desperate for a game and is available extremely cheap.

Other games that share the Adventure/RPG hybrid genre that have a lot of puzzles are Clans and BloodNet. Clans is ok-ish if you have the patience to stick with it, and I loved BloodNet, though the only thing it shares with Quest for Glory is being a Hybrid.

Also, considering some have recommended Oblivion of all games, I might as well suggest to check out Betrayal at Krondor, Veil of Darkness and Entomorph. The first is much more of a complex RPG than Adventure, where as the other two are more Adventure/Action hybrids, yet I feel the three of them are closer to being like Quest for Glory than Oblivion could ever hope to be.

PS> Arcanum, Fallout and Planescape: Troment rule!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:19 pm 
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I don't understand what "considering some have recommended Oblivion of all games" means. Are saying it sucks or that it doesn't resemble Quest for Glory? In my opinion, both statements are false. I think Oblivion is extremely close to Quest for Glory. Just lacks its sense of humor, I suppose.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:01 pm 
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AGP wrote:
I don't understand what "considering some have recommended Oblivion of all games" means. Are saying it sucks or that it doesn't resemble Quest for Glory?


Both. Though in my case, "sucks" puts it lightly. It wasn't an attack against you though, rereading it it seems that way, but that wasn't my intention.

In regards to Quest for Glory, I find no similarities between them, particularly not from the gameplay standpoint, or any other really besides the sharing of the Fantasy theme and Khajiits looking somewhat like Katta if you squint and cock your head to one side.

From an RPG point of view, I find Oblivion fails horribly in numerous aspects, but I'll avoid rambling into the subject for the sake of the topic. Since Oblivion was your first TES though, I suggest you try Daggerfall which is infinitely superior.

AGP wrote:
In my opinion, both statements are false. I think Oblivion is extremely close to Quest for Glory. Just lacks its sense of humor, I suppose.


Well, we all have our own opinions. Ours are opposite.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:07 am 
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Relax, I'm not about to be offended. And hey, it turns out I've owned a copy of Morrowind for years now. It's been sitting on my desk along with a bunch of other CDs I must have gotten with one of the many video cards I bought over the years. So I guess I'm playing III next. Then I'll play II. I take it you like II better than III given your recomendation. Does that mean you at least agree with Gamespot that Oblivion is better than Morrowind?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:16 pm 
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AGP wrote:
Relax, I'm not about to be offended. And hey, it turns out I've owned a copy of Morrowind for years now. It's been sitting on my desk along with a bunch of other CDs I must have gotten with one of the many video cards I bought over the years. So I guess I'm playing III next. Then I'll play II. I take it you like II better than III given your recomendation. Does that mean you at least agree with Gamespot that Oblivion is better than Morrowind?


I don't really pay attention to GameSpot, or review sites in general. I liked Daggerfall best, yes. Morrowind next and Oblivion the least. I never played Arena. To me the series takes a leap backwards with each new installment. Neither Morrowind nor Oblivion were what I look for in an RPG.


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