abandon ware?

Message

tok · #1 Post by **tok** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:34 pm

Is abandon ware legal?

gargin · #2 Post by **gargin** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:12 pm

The answer to your question is yes, however you need to keep in mind what true abandonware is. Abandonware are games that are not just old but games that have been abandoned by the original developer. While Sierra may not actively pursue abandonware sites for posting their old adventure games they do still own them and it is in my opinion illegal to download them. (Especially since they released a collectors pack as recently as last year)

Gronagor · #3 Post by **Gronagor** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:44 pm

Actually no. It is illegal, and will be for a long time.

Unless the copyright holder release the game into the public domain, it will still remain illegal. even if the company doesn't exist anymore, and the copyright-holder/developer died, it still remain copyrighted for many years after.

Life just isn't as easy as these abandonware-sites claim.

greensenshi · #4 Post by **greensenshi** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:00 pm

Technically, no. I'm not gonna repeat what Gronagor said, just add on it a little. Intellectual property is copyrighted for 80 years, afterwords it becomes free domain. It's illegal to download it without paying a royalty to the copyright holder.

That's the letter of the law. The spirit of some people is that it's okay to download them seeing as the original copyright holder is dead or the company doesn't exist, therefore there is no way to legally obtain the game.

Edit: Wikipedia is being confusing about copyright lengths. I think it's 70 or 80 years though after original date of publication.

tok · #5 Post by **tok** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:10 pm

to bad.. Guess i'll haveto wait for my cd's to arrive..

gargin · #6 Post by **gargin** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:49 pm

A good example of a game that was truly abandoned by the developer and made freeware would be "Betrayal at Krondor" if I recall correctly sierra made that game free. It is my belief that the developer should choose wether or not a game should be distributed for free. We may not always agree with how they handle the licenses but they did pay to have the game made and that does entitle them to choose how it is handled.

Anyways I didn't just post to elaborate on my original post I stumbled upon an interesting article on Gamespot that speaks about Abandonware and also interviews some big name companies and game designers about their personal views on it.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/featur ... andonware/

Kurdt · #7 Post by **Kurdt** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:21 am

It is my belief that the developer should choose whether or not a game should be distributed for free.

They do. In the case of Betrayal at Krondor, they released it on their website as freeware for anyone to download as part of their marketing for Return to Krondor. They haven't done this with any of their other games, though, so if you were to download one you would be breaking the law.

Like Gronagor and greensenshi said, it is explicitly illegal to download games for free. This is no different from lifting a 12-pack of Cokes from a Wal-Mart. Of course, it is still YOUR decision to download them, and the fact of the matter is that there will probably be zero repercussions because people like Vivendi have bigger fish to fry. However, it is still illegal and you are still breaking the law by doing it.

gargin · #8 Post by **gargin** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:32 pm

I think my stance on this has been misinterpreted, I have no intention of downloading from abandonware sites and actually favor the developers choice. It was my impression that freeware referred to software that was free from the get go and abandonware was something that while not always free eventually did become free. (I know there are different forms of abandonware)
I know there are not many games that have done this but perhaps I misunderstood the difference between these two terms. I personally own almost every sierra game in existance. I just wanted to clarify that I was not endorsing the use of abandonware sites because it seemed like people were getting the wrong idea.

While anyways sorry if I gave the wrong impression, sometimes I type things and they come off a bit weird. Also sorry to have kept this relatively unimportant thread going for so long.

greensenshi · #9 Post by **greensenshi** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:27 pm

To me, abandonware IS freeware, when it's done right. Freeware as I see it is any program that is distributed to the public without any form of payment. Games that have been abandoned by their developers and released to the public are freeware. It's just another term for it.

#10 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:10 pm

If they're released to the public, they're not abandoned.

Gronagor · #11 Post by **Gronagor** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:57 pm

Abandonware sites define it as games (usually games or programmes that were popular) that you can't find in your local store (or any other method other than second-hand selling like e-bay) anymore.

In other words, if, in their eyes, the company or designer doesn't still make a profit from it they consider it abandoned and legal to upload for public download. That's completely wrong.

Thing is, we all have our own idea of how the copyright law should be, but currently it says it is illegal. Point. Stop. No more discussion needed.

If they're released to the public, they're not abandoned.

Agree with Erpy. It can only be Freeware or Open-source. Not abandonware (if you consider the definition above)

MusicallyInspired · #12 Post by **MusicallyInspired** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:50 pm

Indeed. They're not abandoned if the company still claims ownership of the copyrights, which they always will.

Kurdt · #13 Post by **Kurdt** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:55 am

Yeah. Any "term" or "type" of abandonware is basically a philosophical argument on what is and is not ethically okay to download. Legally, it is all illegal unless it is released into the market as freeware (i.e. BAK). Ethically, there are people who see games that aren't available anymore save for eBay and used games racks at GameStop as okay to download. Recently, because of the shoddily put-together Sierra Classics Collections of KQ, SQ, LSL, and PQ, there are those that still advocate downloading those games over buying the collection as a way of sticking it to Vivendi for "not really caring" or "looking for a quick buck" or something.

This all comes down to the decision of the common person. Is it more ethical to adhere to the letter of the law, or to go against that law and bring great games with historical/nostalgic value that would most likely disappear forever without the advent of these sites to people who would enjoy them? For some it's an easy answer either way. For others, not so much. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the games aren't forgotten I'm happy.