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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 am 
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The Prince of Shapeir

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Quote:
The AGDI team really puts up with a lot, and has been pretty good about dealing with all the flack they get for release dates over the years... But also, I've been a dedicated fan and trust me if there was a way to donate to this project I would have donated a lot more than $39.99 over the years...


Hypocritical statements like this really piss me off. So, you illegally help distribute our commercial tiles, you expect high quality games from us, you demand a time of release, and then you have the nerve to call yourself a 'dedicated fan'? How exactly do you expect us to deliver on all of these demands? Perhaps you think money grows on trees. This attitude has the exact opposite effect that a dedicated fan has. Don't even put yourself in the same category. It's this attitude that pushes us two steps backwards and makes creating adventure games such a struggle. If you don't like a game, you don't have to buy it. Nobody's is forcing you to buy it. But admitting to downloading our games rather than donating to what most people would consider a good cause, and then coming here with such an attitude is not likely to make you popular. Nor is it likely to make us receptive to you. Nothing annoys me more than when someone starts taking advantage of generosity, and that's exactly what you are doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:37 am 
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I'd just like to add something to the initial request of this thread.
If the admins are going to be kind enough to post an exact time, can you please remember to include the hour, minutes, AND seconds for a more precise estimation? It goes without saying that milliseconds is ideal, but I think you owe this community at least seconds.
Much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:20 am 
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Spanky wrote:
I'd just like to add something to the initial request of this thread.
If the admins are going to be kind enough to post an exact time, can you please remember to include the hour, minutes, AND seconds for a more precise estimation? It goes without saying that milliseconds is ideal, but I think you owe this community at least seconds.
Much appreciated.


Erpy wrote:
We're not going to give an exact time. It takes enough planning as it is to pick a day and then stick to it. There's no way we can promise a specific time. Kindly be satisfied with what you have.

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Reading: it's informative.

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:52 am 
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MusicallyInspired wrote:
Reading: it's informative.


I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic ;) .

EDIT : If he wasn't being sarcastic...well, that would be very sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:05 am 
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oughtobe wrote:
And also about downloading it, I downloaded it just to see if the full motion video was improved, and then after watching the intro and a few cutscenes i deleted the game... If that's illegal, I'm sorry you should sue me, if that's unethical, I don't agree...


Yeah. That sounds like a typical weirdo: 'I just tried to cut someones head off to see what's it like, but after cutting through the skin and some muscle, I decided I don't enjoy it. In other words, I'm not a killer. I didn't know the guy would bleed to death.'

And my friend, you are as unethical as they get!


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:22 am 
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I'm not so sure we should judge this on the basis of principles here, but on the basis of the ethics of each specific situation.

For example: Microsoft is a giant, evil corporation. Give them more money and they will find more efficient ways to make your life worse, destroy PC games as such and grind innovation to a pulp, while sporadically generating things that may entertain you. It may not be in your best interest to ever give them money if you can avoid it. It may be more in your interest to work towards the gradual erosion of their company.

AGDI is a poor independent video game company that is providing us with a video game many of us have craved for over a decade in this form, and is doing so for free. They may have wanted to get money for it but they can't, and they're still making it. So, I ordered Al Emmo. I don't know if I'll like Al Emmo, though I have high hopes. But I am sure that I am glad QfG 2 VGA is coming out, and I have no reason to doubt that that game is easily worth the $19.95 + shipping. Worst case scenario: I have a game I'm so-so about, a nifty poster, Quest for Freaking Glory 2 VGA and I'm out less money than a cab ride. Best case scenario: I have two awesome games, a nifty poster, and AGDI has a little bit more funding to provide me with more awesome things.

So if it makes you feel any better, imagine when you put in your money for Al Emmo that you're actually ordering QfG 2 VGA. If you like, you can squint your eyes real tight and maybe make the words look like QfG 2, and you can tell yourself that you just have to download an update to get the game to run on your system that just happens to come up on Sunday.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:31 am 
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*deleted*

Decided I will not discuss this with oughtobe any further.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:32 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Quote:
The AGDI team really puts up with a lot, and has been pretty good about dealing with all the flack they get for release dates over the years... But also, I've been a dedicated fan and trust me if there was a way to donate to this project I would have donated a lot more than $39.99 over the years...


Hypocritical statements like this really piss me off. So, you illegally help distribute our commercial tiles, you expect high quality games from us, you demand a time of release, and then you have the nerve to call yourself a 'dedicated fan'? How exactly do you expect us to deliver on all of these demands? Perhaps you think money grows on trees. This attitude has the exact opposite effect that a dedicated fan has. Don't even put yourself in the same category. It's this attitude that pushes us two steps backwards and makes creating adventure games such a struggle. If you don't like a game, you don't have to buy it. Nobody's is forcing you to buy it. But admitting to downloading our games rather than donating to what most people would consider a good cause, and then coming here with such an attitude is not likely to make you popular. Nor is it likely to make us receptive to you. Nothing annoys me more than when someone starts taking advantage of generosity, and that's exactly what you are doing.


Didn't you read my post? I said I downloaded the game just to check if the intro cutscenes and full motion video stuff was the same... I immediately deleted the game from my hard drive, I played more of the demo than the game i downloaded...

I would gladly pay you guys $60 for a good original adventure game, but I thought Al & Emmo wasn't a good one, if I wanted a game like that I would replay the Freddy Pharkas game that I bought when it came out for $40...

It seems like you are more bitter that i don't like AL & Emmo, because if I said, I downloaded the game to see if the cut scenes were different and then i deleted the game and then I went out and bought the game to support AGDI, it seems you would have been happy, but since I didn't like the game you don't like me.... Because seriously, what are you mad at? that i downloaded the game, checked out the intro scenes, and then immediately deleted it, or that I demoed the game and didn't like it?

I'm not trying to be popular on this site, I'm trying to give you guys some constructive criticism, because the adventure gaming market is dead, and people want it back so bad, they are scared to criticize it, especially because of responses like this from authors...

Instead of being soooo scared of illegal downloads, you should be concentrated on making games that are so good, that I would download it and still happily go out and buy the game afterwards...

P.S. where did I demand to know the release date? I actually kindly asked if you could give a specific time, I even mentioned that I wasn't expecting a quick reply, I was expecting you to tell us on saturday, so I wouldn't have to reload it all day sunday... geeez... once a couple people gang up on you on this board, everybody thinks its fair to act bitter towards you... calm down people... I DO NOT CONDONE DOWLOADING GAMES ILLEGALLY, but I think downloading a game, checking out the intro and then deleting it, is good for the game, and if I publish games, I would never care if someone downloaded my games, especially to check out the intro, I would just aim to make that game so good that whoever downloaded would want to buy it...


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:44 pm 
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The thing is, if you used P2P software such as Bittorrent to download the game, you would have been helping to distribute it to others while you were still downloading it yourself. So, even if you deleted the game immediately after you downloaded it, the damage was already done.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:20 pm 
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oughtobe wrote:
Didn't you read my post? I said I downloaded the game just to check if the intro cutscenes and full motion video stuff was the same... I immediately deleted the game from my hard drive, I played more of the demo than the game i downloaded...

That has to be the lamest excuse I have ever heard. How is the video going to be any different in the full game from the demo if the demo is supposed to accurately represent the full game?

Quote:
I would gladly pay you guys $60 for a good original adventure game, but I thought Al & Emmo wasn't a good one, if I wanted a game like that I would replay the Freddy Pharkas game that I bought when it came out for $40...

If you don't want to buy it fine, but I'd say it's a good deal to actually GET any half-decent adventure games nowadays. They're dead. I'd want to support the adventure market in any way I can even if I didn't like the game. But to each his own. That's cool.

Quote:
It seems like you are more bitter that i don't like AL & Emmo, because if I said, I downloaded the game to see if the cut scenes were different and then i deleted the game and then I went out and bought the game to support AGDI, it seems you would have been happy, but since I didn't like the game you don't like me.... Because seriously, what are you mad at? that i downloaded the game, checked out the intro scenes, and then immediately deleted it, or that I demoed the game and didn't like it?

As this paragraph's sole purpose is to try to justify yourself for your actions I'm just going to forget how pathetic it is and move on.

Quote:
I'm not trying to be popular on this site, I'm trying to give you guys some constructive criticism, because the adventure gaming market is dead, and people want it back so bad, they are scared to criticize it, especially because of responses like this from authors...

You want to give constructive criticism? Don't go on a game developer's website, tell them you've pirated their game, and tell them what they did wrong.

Quote:
Instead of being soooo scared of illegal downloads, you should be concentrated on making games that are so good, that I would download it and still happily go out and buy the game afterwards...

On the contrary, it's the very business of game developers to be scared of illegal downloads. Besides, you "downloaded it and didn't happily go out and buy it."

Quote:
I DO NOT CONDONE DOWLOADING GAMES ILLEGALLY

Then why did you...do it? :\

Quote:
but I think downloading a game, checking out the intro and then deleting it, is good for the game, and if I publish games, I would never care if someone downloaded my games, especially to check out the intro, I would just aim to make that game so good that whoever downloaded would want to buy it...

That's what DEMOS are for, dude.

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:25 pm 
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Also, tbh you're being bearable now. But looking at some of your old threads and the things you said to people, you've already set up a reputation of being a bit of a dick. Reputations stick, and generallly you can only get rid of one if you REALLY try, what you're saying and doing is definately not making your reputation better.
Don't act like people here are being un-realistic, this is the real world, if you piss people off they tend to stay pissed off, especially if you admit to helping illegally distribute their game. Now, perhaps you didn't realise that you are helping to distribute the game by downloading it, ignorance is okay. But if you are truely the dedicated fan you claim to be, you would have seen how angering it is for the AGDI staff that people are using Bit torrent with AL Emmo, just from the many discussion threads that have been made about it. And you wouldn't have downloaded it for that reason, EVEN if you had thought it was morally sound.

So my advice to you, drop it now and be pleasant to people here, no one will hold a grudge if you do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:29 pm 
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oughtobe wrote:
It seems like you are more bitter that i don't like AL & Emmo,


I don't see how you came to that conclusion. It would seem to me all AGC2's comments suggest the opposite, what with blatantly pointing out that illegal downloading is what's killing the industry you claim to want to save.

oughtobe wrote:
I'm not trying to be popular on this site, I'm trying to give you guys some constructive criticism, because the adventure gaming market is dead, and people want it back so bad, they are scared to criticize it, especially because of responses like this from authors...


You've said this before and yet you still offer no real constructive criticism. You said the game wasn't as good as Freddy and you didn't like it. Well that's not constructive, that's just an opinion. Constructive would be: The Backgrounds were nice but your perspective was off (<- something that could be fixed for next time) (It wasn't BTW that was just an example). I played the demo and liked the character (Sorry work just ended so I can't buy it yet but I plan to as soon as I get out of debt), so did a lot of people, so why is it you assume that your opinion is more valid?
And we're not afraid to criticize, it just happens that there's nothing to criticize (that I've found) I've liked the games, and the web design and the courses and the forum so why should I complain?

oughtobe wrote:
Instead of being soooo scared of illegal downloads, you should be concentrated on making games that are so good, that I would download it and still happily go out and buy the game afterwards...


They have made good games, apparently you're the only one here who thinks otherwise. And saying: "Instead of worrying about being rewarded for your hard work and getting paid, You should cater to my needs so I can steal it, play it and THEN buy" it is not a persuasive argument. But it's nice to know your ego isn't too big there.

oughtobe wrote:
P.S. where did I demand to know the release date?


Remember in the other thread when we told you to stop bugging for a release date?
Shouldn't be to hard to find, just check your previous posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:33 pm 
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Solarkid wrote:
Also, tbh you're being bearable now. But looking at some of your old threads and the things you said to people, you've already set up a reputation of being a bit of a dick. Reputations stick, and generallly you can only get rid of one if you REALLY try, what you're saying and doing is definately not making your reputation better.
Don't act like people here are being un-realistic, this is the real world, if you piss people off they tend to stay pissed off, especially if you admit to helping illegally distribute their game. Now, perhaps you didn't realise that you are helping to distribute the game by downloading it, ignorance is okay. But if you are truely the dedicated fan you claim to be, you would have seen how angering it is for the AGDI staff that people are using Bit torrent with AL Emmo, just from the many discussion threads that have been made about it. And you wouldn't have downloaded it for that reason, EVEN if you had thought it was morally sound.

So my advice to you, drop it now and be pleasant to people here, no one will hold a grudge if you do that.

Dave


Honestly, I know downloading games is bad... But I thought if I downloaded it just to check out the intros and what was different from the demo real quick, I wouldn't be doing any harm. And then honestly critiquing it, and saying I didn't like the western theme and 3d sprites, I honestly think is helpful...

Personally, I think the Radiohead model is the future, letting people illegally download the product but then selling them something limited with the product to make them feel special or that their getting their dollars worth is what the future holds... like a usb dongle or limited package or something cool... Personally, I'd pre-order their next game if it ends up being a QFG style game, for $60, if it came with some USB dongle or something cool... and i'd probably end up downloading it too if i didn't pre-order it and then buy it anyway to get the limited stuff...


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:38 pm 
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Holy wow. Just... wow. I wasn't going to buy Al Emmo, not because it doesn't look good, but because I have a budget, but y'know what? I just got paid yesterday and after this load of crap, I am going to buy the game, just because of moron mcgee there. There ya go. Won't make up for anything, but unlike said moron, I AM a dedicated fan. Eat THAT.

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:54 pm 
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This thread is like running a race in Jell-O.

Oh, yes, and give me the specific time I may download the game, or I shall be forced only to come here a couple of times a day instead of many.

Sheez....

Sometimes, you just gotta shut your mouth no matter how valid you "feel" your opinion is. And if I'M saying this, you know it ain't worth blabbing about.


Bt

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
I said I downloaded the game just to check if the intro cutscenes and full motion video stuff was the same


Ha! Bullshit you downloaded it just to check out the cutscenes and then deleted it! You're no comedian, but that statement has great comedic merit. You know, I found $50 on the ground once which I promptly returned to the nearest police station. Yeah, right! You quite clearly mentioned in another thread that you had played the full game, and besides you could have asked on the forum whether the cutscenes were hi-res.

Honestly, we wouldn't be making games if we weren't used to criticism (even the non-constructive stuff). And trust me, we've heard every type from the voices being bad, to the graphics being low-res, to the interface being clunky, to the sprites being 2.5D, to the music being tacky. But the thing about criticism is that you take it collectively into account. No one person's opinion is going to be the definitive voice in shaping a future game. We've also heard plenty of positive comments in all the afore-mentioned categories too. That means one thing - opnions are subjective and not everyone will like the game, just as not everyone will hate it.

I don't mind if people don't think the game is worth buying. That, after all, is their own choice to make and we won't push a tacky sales pitch on fans. It causes no harm NOT to buy our game. However, when you DOWNLOAD it and still don't buy it, then you are most certainly causing harm because you're sharing it amongst other pirates who also don't pay for it. You're benefiting from the privilege of playing something for free which other honest customers had to pay for; and worst of all, you're coming across as awfully hypocritical in saying you'd give us SOOOO MUCH money if we'd just make a "good" adventure game. The genre you're purporting to want to help support. Well, talk is cheap and we cannot simply take your 'intended' good will at face value. Particularly when every other action you've undertaken seems like it would have a negative consequence on our ability to make ANY future games, let alone having a budget to make better ones. For all of your rhetorical mumbo-jumbo, you may as well be flashing Monopoly notes at us.

By the way, I must say a huge thanks to all of the honest fans who HAVE supported our commercial endeavors here. Sometimes it's easy to get caught in the rut of negativity. But the influx of support and orders that have come in since August 5th for Al Emmo has been overwhelming (in a very good way!). I am glad that the majority of this community have their hearts in the right place. So, thanks everyone for your support! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:21 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
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You quite clearly mentioned in another thread that you had played the full game, and besides you could have asked on the forum whether the cutscenes were hi-res.


HA! Good call sherlock! I never saw that one i gotta admit. Ever considered a career in the crime investigation field AGC2?

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Yep as soon as my university sends me my left over scholarship money i'm gonna buy Al Emmo, cause I think it looks cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:32 pm 
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I don't like what I see in this thread from all parties involved. It seems that frantic fans and distressed developers form an explosive combination. -___-

I'm happy that you chose to support agdi by buying Al Emmo, oughtobe, and I'm not going to comment about the quality of the game nor your tastes. I, however, must point out that it's against the interests of the developers discussing about filesharing and downloads, even when used just as a preview-before-purchase. Moreover, even if they were okay about it (and I think that's not the case), they just cannot state it publicly without hurting their chances to work at the industry, and much less now, with the upcoming release of Quest for Glory II vga bringing a lot of attention to them. You don't want to ruin that, do you?

Also, as Erpy said, there's no need to download the game as soon as it's released. So calm down a bit. I wouldn't stay away the whole night, but I might wake up early. Also, I think they have enough mirrors to prevent the servers from melting on the first wave of fans, so you'll be able to download the game at any moment after its release (but again, so they thought the Firefox Developers on download day!)

Next time stay cool. (as someone here loves to say)

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Anonymous Game Creator 2 wrote:
Quote:
I said I downloaded the game just to check if the intro cutscenes and full motion video stuff was the same


Ha! Bullshit you downloaded it just to check out the cutscenes and then deleted it! You're no comedian, but that statement has great comedic merit. You know, I found $50 on the ground once which I promptly returned to the nearest police station. Yeah, right! You quite clearly mentioned in another thread that you had played the full game, and besides you could have asked on the forum whether the cutscenes were hi-res.



It's really lame that you assume that... And I have found money before and I returned it to the front desk... $50 isn't really that much money to some people... but regardless, If you read that post, I also mentioned that I could tell from the demo, that the 3d sprite, the western theme and the cut scenes, weren't doing it for me... I downloaded the game just to check if everything was the same, because i read somewhere on the forums about the 3d modeling and stuff being changed and a new person came in or something, but i guess i misunderstood that post because the full version was just like the demo... So whatever, you can keep assuming whatever you want, but I downloaded the game, installed it, played it for 5 minutes and then deleted it....

Now as far as one person having a lot of effect, you would be surprised... If I wanted to I could get the backing to do a small adventure game or small film in a week, and I will do so... I'm just trying to design the right project, so it is stupid to assume you know what people do without knowing them or judging them fully, and it's also very stupid to underestimate the power of one person... isn't that what role playing games are fundamentally about? The power of what one person guided the right way can do and how he effects that world...

whatever though, I guess because I could not have possibly downloaded the game for 5 minutes to look if there was any improvements over the demo, which I did not fully investigate, I just checked the intro and the first few screens, I am a bad person who does not support AGDI and I am a bad person... I'm not a true AGDI fan, I'm a scum pirate who shouldn't even post in these forums or download QFG2VGA.... My opinions, contacts, knowledge and judgements are useless to the AGDI community, I should just go along with the masses, refrain from expressing my views and give it up to democratic choice as to what influences AGDI... because according to AGDI, the many, not one person really matters...

cool, sick, thanks for remaking QFG2... I hope you guys make some good original games...

"No one person's opinion is going to be the definitive voice in shaping a future game." AGC2


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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Quote:
I DO NOT CONDONE DOWLOADING GAMES ILLEGALLY, but I think downloading a game, checking out the intro and then deleting it, is good for the game, and if I publish games, I would never care if someone downloaded my games, especially to check out the intro, I would just aim to make that game so good that whoever downloaded would want to buy it...


Hardly worth the knock at your door by the Feds if you ask me...
:P

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:56 pm 
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:rolleyes

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:07 pm 
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oughtobe wrote:
A lot of assorted nonsense.


Rigghhhhht. Keep dreaming, kid. Hey, maybe we should make an adventure game about the fantasy world you seem to be living in. >D

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:10 pm 
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Just wanted to add that I bought Al Emmo, also was a fan of Pharkus, but enjoyed Al Emmo a lot more :)
Excellent work guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Ok I hate asking but seriously what time...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:35 pm
Posts: 55
Tye wrote:
I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic ;) .
EDIT : If he wasn't being sarcastic...well, that would be very sad.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I thought it was pretty obvious. Maybe I should have gone with nanoseconds instead :P
Anyway, I'm amused by all the attention oughtobe is getting. You guys sure have a penchant for the dramatic.
Oughtobe, here's my advice: Drop the shovel.


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