What was QfG5 like, anyway?

[MeshGearFox]

Okay, as a newbie to this series, QfG5 seems to be the one that's generally liked the least. I read up about it and looked at some screens, and I guess it's more of a straight-up RPG than an RPG adventure hybrid, but it doesn't sound particularly bad or anything. I guess since I'm getting into the process of hunting the old games down, I'm sort of curious about where people stand on this game now and why.

[Chief]

I definitely liked it but there were some bugs and it felt a little unfinished/rushed to me. But overall I thought it was a worthy addition to the series.
I'm glad they even made it at all actually.. there was a huge fan campaign to petition Sierra not to cancel it! [if you're interested in reading more about that whole saga you can go here: http://qfg.info/coalition.html ]

anyway, after i finish part 2 again, i will try to replay V because i didn't finish it with all the character classes.

[Spikey]

Possible spoilers.

Gameplay technically it's still a true point & click adventure / RPG hybrid, no more or less than the others. The only really different thing about the system is that it knows no close combat. This makes the long range / area combat more well thought out, especially fun if you're an offensive magic user. I've always hated that long range attacks are pretty inaccurate to perform in basically all the Qfgs. I haven't even been able to make useful use of it in Qfg2VGA. Even the Faery Folk battle in Qfg4 was really odd, the only true battle of the first four games with a long range focus; it comes down to having high enough stats to endure instead of strategy.

Storywise, both conversations and story may feel rushed. The story arch clings mainly to old characters that overshadow the thinly introduced new ones. Especially the new characters come across as one dimensional (like Shakra, son of Rakeesh, Logos or Hippolyta, queen of the merfolk), even though you can sense their great potential. To round up storylines, a lot of characters make their return; some others are obviously missing. For example, it's odd that Punny Bones doesn't appear (other than a brief mention), since he said he'd be heading for Silmaria. Remember that without him, you would never have beaten Ad Avis. The storyline itself is generally accused of being too lineair, and this is somewhat true, because a lot of events are timed. It's comparable to the caravan of Qfg2, only it happens several times while staying in the same location.

Graphics and voiceacting are good in my humble opinion, but I know that most people think otherwise. Sure, they're not outstanding, but I thought it was a nice attempt of forwarding the graphics into a new era of QfG / point & click. GK3 was another such attempt I thought brave and good. Evolution is almost always good, even though this very community clings to the notion of nostalgia. If you're looking for that nostalgic feeling you had while playing QfgX for the first time, you'd probably be better off seeking your fortunes in games of other series by Sierra of the same era that you haven't played yet, because Qfg5 is of a totally different calibre. Of course, to some, like myself, this game evokes already another form of nostalgia. But you're a newbie, so you probably won't have that problem.

Well, I haven't really much to say anything else about it, other than that it's a must-play if you like the Qfg series. It does round up the story, was written to be the concluding chapter of the series. It's really nice when that happens, unlike other games like Gabriel Knight, which will remain unfinished forever.

[Asrai]

The storyline itself is generally accused of being too lineair, and this is somewhat true, because a lot of events are timed. It's comparable to the caravan of Qfg2, only it happens several times while staying in the same location.

I agree with most of what you said, including that the story is a bit too linear. However, you have a lot more control over the timeline than you do in QfG2. In QfG5 you can spend as much time as you like grinding before beginning the Rites of Rulership. Once you begin the rites, yes, you're on a pretty firm time line, but I sometimes wait weeks before beginning them.

Personally, QfG5 falls about fourth on my list, I prefer it to QfG3. I love the music and the atmosphere, and I like the 3D inventory and the quick access custom tool bar. It has its bad points, they all do, but it is a wonderful game and well worth playing for any fan of the series.

[Brainiac]

In QfG5 you can spend as much time as you like grinding before beginning the Rites of Rulership. Once you begin the rites, yes, you're on a pretty firm time line, but I sometimes wait weeks before beginning them.

Not entirely. If you complete each of the first six Rites on your own (namely you get whatever item or items are necessary to show the Rite has been accomplished), you can hold up the start of the next Rite by simply not turning the stuff in. Once you're done with whatever grinding/sidequests/general explorations you wish to perform, you can continue on the primary plot.

[Goilveig]

Even the Faery Folk battle in Qfg4 was really odd, the only true battle of the first four games with a long range focus; it comes down to having high enough stats to endure instead of strategy.

There's a strategy to it, very much so.

If you cast the proper three spells, you'll take virtually no damage (we're talking 1 damage or so per hit), you can last nearly forever. Then you spam a fourth spell to attack. Choice of the first three defensive spells and the offensive spell are very much strategic.

[Spikey]

I disagree, because the largest part of the battle you're not making strategical decisions (you're just spamming attacks). You only need to find out which spells to cast in the first few seconds, and then the battle is pretty much silly. I don't call that strategy.

[Luna]

The only fights prior to the Fairies that felt like a true magic battle, that I remember, were with the Leopardmen in QfG3. They've stay at a distance and exchange spells with you in battle. The Fairy folks felt like an extension of this, only, well, more than one. It came down to the same thing though. Put up your defenses, and take advantage of the fact that you finally have a defense against indirect elemental attacks. Also take advantage of finally having a direct fire spell that doesn't count as a direct attack, finally. Previously you were reduced to Force Bolt as an indirect, and it was quite situational. I'd have had my character Married Katrina while she was still a Vampire for giving him that spell.

So.... no, it's not high strategy. It does, however, build on the magical combat experienced before... so it's hard to complain. At least it's consistent. Many things aren't.

Still, while I like QfG5 less than the others... for a variety of reasons, I will agree that its magical combat felt more open than previous titles.

[Spikey]

Good comparison, Luna. Finding the right spells does add to the adventure element of the game, and probably is how a magical fight should be anyway.

Still, I'm always a battle mage whenever I play as a magic user. You can't avoid being chased by monsters in any game. I don't want run, but fight them.

[Goilveig]

Graphics and voiceacting are good in my humble opinion, but I know that most people think otherwise. Sure, they're not outstanding, but I thought it was a nice attempt of forwarding the graphics into a new era of QfG / point & click. GK3 was another such attempt I thought brave and good. Evolution is almost always good, even though this very community clings to the notion of nostalgia. If you're looking for that nostalgic feeling you had while playing QfgX for the first time, you'd probably be better off seeking your fortunes in games of other series by Sierra of the same era that you haven't played yet, because Qfg5 is of a totally different calibre. Of course, to some, like myself, this game evokes already another form of nostalgia. But you're a newbie, so you probably won't have that problem.

I think the real issue with QFG5's graphics are that they came out at a bad time. Certainly the pioneering 3D applications would propel the industry forward, but in 1998, 3D was just barely overtaking where 2D had been for a long time. QFG5 has several of the limitations of 3D games (such as pixel shimmering/texture swimming) and none of the benefits, as it's not using Direct3D/OpenGL, but rather its own 3D rendering engine then drawing the result with DirectDraw. That means you don't get to increase the resolution, or add antialiasing, or any of the other benefits that modern 3D games take for granted. And, of course, that it can't take any advantage at all of 3D hardware -- the 3D is entirely done in software.

Of course, without the drive of companies to move from 2D into 3D, none of the later advances would have come out, but as a whole, many games would have done better to remain in the relatively mature 2D realm than to go and get their feet wet in the new 3D world.

[Beverheim]

I played Dragon Fire just a few years ago because I wasn't aware of the release back in 1998.

It isn't a bad game, and in my opinion - not the worst game in the series. And not the worst attempt to make a 2D game into 3D - the worst ones being Kings Quest 8 or Simon 3D. It feels more than a 2.5D game than a true 3D game, though.

It is a bit buggy on XP, even with the patches, but I managed to finished it. I just finished it once though, as a Paladin. Tried as a thief, but the system for picking locks was too frustrating for me, I remember.

This games ties up the loose ends from the other games, and it brings a nice closure on the series. If you have played the other 4 games, you will enjoy meeting again quite a few of your friends and foes from the first games.

[Beverheim]

Just for fun...checked what you have to pay to get the Dragon fire now...It seems to have become a really expensive collectors item now!

I bought mine back i 2005, new box still wrapped in plastic, for 8 euros, now it costs at least 4 times as much when I check ebay or amazon...

[MeshGearFox]

Yeah, the anthology is also outrageously expensive. I'll probably get it if I can ever find a copy on the cheap. If. Big if. Huge if. Admittedly I could resort to auction sniping but I'm not a jerk. I DID snag a copy of QfG4 on Ebay just in case, as that one's pretty interesting to me (and I think the same seller has a few more copies if anyone's interested..?). Love to get 1 and 3 sometime, but I'm not sure I'd want those in their original forms as I'm looking at this from a more collectorly standpoint and floppy disks have a somewhat nasty habit of going dead. And I don't trust the postal service with not ruining them either, for that matter.

[Chief]

Have you played 1 and 3 btw? if not you should definitely get them!

Yeah, the anthology is also outrageously expensive. I'll probably get it if I can ever find a copy on the cheap. If. Big if. Huge if. Admittedly I could resort to auction sniping but I'm not a jerk. I DID snag a copy of QfG4 on Ebay just in case, as that one's pretty interesting to me (and I think the same seller has a few more copies if anyone's interested..?). Love to get 1 and 3 sometime, but I'm not sure I'd want those in their original forms as I'm looking at this from a more collectorly standpoint and floppy disks have a somewhat nasty habit of going dead. And I don't trust the postal service with not ruining them either, for that matter.

[Schloss Ritter]

The main thing I noticed about magic combat in QfG5 was thus:

Hide* + Frost Bite** = Win!

* Only available by importing a Wizard who get the spell in QfG4
** Don't try substituting the more powerful Dragon Fire for Frost Bite, especially during the game's nighttime when you can't see - you're likely to catch yourself in the blast and die


By the way, I got really lucky finding QfG4 (Sierra Originals vers) for $2 at a computer repair store and QfG5 (original CD case and full-sized manual, plus two quick reference cards) for $10 at a used bookstore.

[Brainiac]

The main thing I noticed about magic combat in QfG5 was thus:

Hide* + Frost Bite** = Win!

* Only available by importing a Wizard who get the spell in QfG4
** Don't try substituting the more powerful Dragon Fire for Frost Bite, especially during the game's nighttime when you can't see - you're likely to catch yourself in the blast and die

This is true, presuming your Frost Bite level is high and the enemy is sufficiently weak. Really tough enemies can make it to you in time, not to mention the Undead being unaffected by Frost Bite and seeing through Hide.

[Schloss Ritter]

The main thing I noticed about magic combat in QfG5 was thus:

Hide* + Frost Bite** = Win!

* Only available by importing a Wizard who get the spell in QfG4
** Don't try substituting the more powerful Dragon Fire for Frost Bite, especially during the game's nighttime when you can't see - you're likely to catch yourself in the blast and die

This is true, presuming your Frost Bite level is high and the enemy is sufficiently weak. Really tough enemies can make it to you in time, not to mention the Undead being unaffected by Frost Bite and seeing through Hide.

I do remember dropping plenty of Goons with that combo eventually. You just have to know the range of the spell and cast at the edge of the range while you watch them foolishly charge through the whole cone or just stand there dumbly and die. Eventually I got good enough to rotate back and forth and take out multiple targets at once.

I think I resorted to defensive spells, running, and lots of pills/potions to make it though the undead section. I usually avoided the random encounters with them also.

[Spikey]

Casting Aura solved a lot of undead problems, right?

[Brainiac]

Aura nullifies point-drain effects from the Undead. However, many are still potent spellcasters and quite capable of strong direct damage to your Health Points. Plus, as said before, they are invulnerable to Frost Bite as well due to already being unnaturally cold. Aura may only serve to keep you alive longer while they kill you.

[Maxor127]

I liked it. Pretty much on par with the rest of the series. I liked the graphics at the time, but I haven't played it since it came out so I don't know how well it's aged. The only thing I hated about the game was the combat. It would've been good, but it was extremely disappointing, mostly because it just felt like a click-fest with not as much finesse. The worst thing was how you could be a tiny set of pixels on the screen and get into a fight and you wouldn't really be able to see what was going on. It was pretty lame. Some sort of zoom feature would've helped out greatly. And I was disappointed that they never got to include the planned networking and expansion pack features.

[Dragonfang]

My complaint was the overhead map. Like QFG3, you have huge territory outside of town, but very little to visit. And the places you do visit, you only did once. The fixed 3D camera was just painful. Sometimes, my mouse pointer was bigger than the hero. Some things announced in a preview didn't made in the final cut, like cartwheels and backflips for th Thief. It was changed into martial arts.

I did however liked, the new RPG system and the weapon selection. The Fighter finally got to shine. Did anyone felt annoyed about the beautiful 3D opening that spoiled the villain's identity?

[Maxor127]

Yeah, I"m not a fan of the overhead maps in those games either.

[Kotskoets]

I quite enjoyed the game because I really like JRPGs. The entire series is kinda like that though (fairly linear story with some optional stuff and character building) but I quite liked the fact that it had loads more to buy in terms of equipment compared to the earlier games. I just really wish it was all hi resolution 2d with hand painted backgrounds and not half-arsed 3d as someone else mentioned. The character models obviously looked like lifeless puppets flailing about which is sort of understandable due to 3d limitations of the time, but the rendered, plastic looking character portraits were just inexcusably crappy looking.

[MeshGearFox]

It was definitely possible to do really good looking pre-rendered 3D backgrounds in those days. I think a mixture of prerendered backdrops and detailed, 2D, hand-drawn sprites could've worked nicely.

[Maxor127]

I think graphics look good for the time and still look halfway decent today. The game actually used voxels instead of real 3D. Compared to King's Quest 8, which was released around the same time, the game looks stunning. If the combat was better, I probably would've even considered it one of my favorites.