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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Earlier you said:

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Er, no its based on AGS forum members selecting which games from 2008 they thought deserved a nomination. Then the top 5 in each category is voted on again.


It is shame (but perhaps convenient for some people who may not want the truth about the AGS Awards nomination process to be known) that the record of that process is unavailable for viewing, and that the relevant pages have all been closed. Seeing a record of that process, or lack of a process, would help people decide whether AGS Awards have any meaning at all.

Also, it is a shame that you still refuse to give final vote tallies for all the games in the various categories. Trying to hide that information doesn't help the SSH-run AGS Awards look like anything but a meaningless exercise by a few forum members.


Last edited by pbpb33 on Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:32 pm 
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I really think you're not actually reading my replies at all.

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:42 pm 
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I have had enough with discussing that sham of an Awards process.

SSH, who apparently is the only person running the AGS Awards, will not provide any record of the nomination process nor the specific number of votes that were part of that process. Suggesting that more than a hundred people voted is not sufficient.

SSH says that some people voted on the games they wanted as nominees for various categories, so let's see how many votes actually led to particular games getting on the final nomination list.

SSH also refuses to publish the final vote tallies that led to the designation of winners.

All of these things would be easy for SSH to do. Instead, we have AGDI indirectly and insultingly compared to Microsoft, and are left with the inescapable conclusion that the AGS Awards shouldn't be taken seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Guys, I'm going to have to ask to quiet things down.

Pbpb33, while I admire passion, I'm not sure if you're doing anybody any favors here. Personally, I'm not cynical enough of a person to believe things were rigged, despite the friction between the AGS community and us in the past. Also, try to see things in perspective. Is the fate of the world hinging on the awards one particular website (not an insignificant one, but still, one community among many) deals out? Are we gonna lose money on QFG2VGA because the AGS awards weren't favourable enough? It's a free game that most people most likely downloaded before the AGS awards even started. You're kinda making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm leaving this open for the time being, but if things remain as heated as they are, I'm locking it and throwing away the key. Seeing that it's been quite some time since I did that, I'd like to avoid having to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:30 pm 
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Okay, I've said everything I needed to say. But I still look forward to getting all the vote tallies published. Hopefully that information will be published here.

Other than that, I'm all finished with this subject.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:51 am 
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To me, and not wanting to reignite the argument here but I just read this thread, but the AGS awards (and the AGS community in general) always lean towards games that are art, not popular games. It's the same thing with the Oscars, look at 2000 best movie - A Beautiful Mind. A great movie no doubt, but most popular? Not likely. Fellowship of the Ring came out in the same year. I think that those who do take the voting in the AGS awards seriously look for a game that they consider a worthwhile art exercise. This years best game, "A Second Face - The Eye of Geltz is watching us" is a good example, in my opinion. It's not been the most "popular" game out there, but the art of it is exceptional. It's a great concept. Whereas QFG2VGA is just a great solid game that a lot more people enjoyed.

I'm not saying that the AGS awards are bad, evil, or satanic. Or even that they're rigged like some people here have postulated. I don't think they are at all. I do think that they're an interesting diversion, and they usually reveal a new game that I haven't played yet.

On a different note, to those who complain about the voting, it's your fault that QFG2VGA didn't win more categories. Why not campaign for the game, get this community at AGDI to vote for it's own games. If most popular game won with 37 votes, that shouldn't be too hard to get 38 people here to vote for QFG2VGA. I'll be honest, I didn't vote because I don't visit the AGS community much and I just always forget to do it. If someone here had told me I needed to vote, I would have. I'm sure there's a lot of other people around here like that too!

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:41 am 
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If I was going to rig anything, then this game would have won all the awards.

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:57 pm 
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Yeah, I don't think the AGS awards are "rigged". Jeez. I only ever thought the "p3n1sh" award was stupid, but it didn't start out that way. And when it went too cynical, it was axed.

SSH, I think you do a fine job. And you're Scottish, which is like a double blessing.

Bt

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Blackthorne519 wrote:
SSH, I think you do a fine job. And you're Scottish, which is like a double blessing.

Bt


I was just about to say, dude only lives like 2 hours drive away from me!


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:52 pm 
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I never said that the one-person-run AGS Award process was rigged in terms of votes not being counted, etc. When I say that I believe the Awards are a "sham" I am talking about the impression given on their award announcement page, for example. One gets the impression that the awards represent some kind of general consensus among adventure gamers, or at least among more people than just a few registered users on a particular message board. That's why I wanted to know exactly how many people voted for particular nominees during the nomination process, for the winners, etc. If the nominees and winners are being decided by a few people on some message board almost no one has ever visited (let alone heard of), then I think that fact ought to be considered when judging the value of these awards. I don't want to overlook or not appreciate any work that someone might have put into organizing an awards process, but I think that, in the future, people like SSH (who apparently is the person behind the AGS awards) should be more clear about EXACTLY how nominees were decided (YES, that includes giving us nominee process and final vote counts on the pages that announce winners). To say that such and such game won "'Best of the Year!' according to the AGS community" might be technically accurate, but it is also somewhat misleading for someone unfamiliar with the AGS forum because it leaves the impression of a larger, community-wide consensus. People like SSH might not care about people who don't participate in that other online forum, and he might choose to take an insular view when deciding whether to share information, with comments like, "everyone on the AGS forum knew the procedure, so why should I have to be transparent now when announcing the results for everyone else to see." (i'm paraphrasing) Fine, that's his right. But SSH should NOT then be surprised when people do not take the awards at all seriously.

I do get the sense that SSH isn't the biggest fan of AGDI, and I also get the sense that some over at some other forums have anti-AGDI tendencies, possibly because of AGDI's commercial aspirations. This is unfortunate. I believe AGDI has done amazing work, and they deserve a lot more recognition for it. Their dedication, talent and passion is really obvious. I also think it's outrageous and an embarrassment to the AGS Awards that QFG2VGA wasn't nominated for more than one measly award.

Klytos wrote:
To me, and not wanting to reignite the argument here but I just read this thread, but the AGS awards (and the AGS community in general) always lean towards games that are art, not popular games. It's the same thing with the Oscars, look at 2000 best movie - A Beautiful Mind. A great movie no doubt, but most popular? Not likely. Fellowship of the Ring came out in the same year. I think that those who do take the voting in the AGS awards seriously look for a game that they consider a worthwhile art exercise. This years best game, "A Second Face - The Eye of Geltz is watching us" is a good example, in my opinion. It's not been the most "popular" game out there, but the art of it is exceptional. It's a great concept. Whereas QFG2VGA is just a great solid game that a lot more people enjoyed.

I'm not saying that the AGS awards are bad, evil, or satanic. Or even that they're rigged like some people here have postulated. I don't think they are at all. I do think that they're an interesting diversion, and they usually reveal a new game that I haven't played yet.

On a different note, to those who complain about the voting, it's your fault that QFG2VGA didn't win more categories. Why not campaign for the game, get this community at AGDI to vote for it's own games. If most popular game won with 37 votes, that shouldn't be too hard to get 38 people here to vote for QFG2VGA. I'll be honest, I didn't vote because I don't visit the AGS community much and I just always forget to do it. If someone here had told me I needed to vote, I would have. I'm sure there's a lot of other people around here like that too!


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:11 am 
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What are anti-AGDI tendencies anyway? If that's a dig at Infamous Adventures, and I think it is because you quoted my entire message, I'd like to set a couple of things straight.

We've never had a problem with AGDI's commercial intentions. AGDI doesn't have commercial intentions. Himalaya does, and released Al Emmo which most of us at IA bought, some of us enjoyed and some didn't. Which is pretty much the same with every game ever made. Some people like it, some people don't. As for AGDI, most of us at IA have been members of the Tierra / AGDI forums for many many years. I'm around the release of KQ2, Broomie even earlier. Blackthorne and I started IA on these very forums. We certainly don't have any issues with AGDI's work. We love remakes (we make them ourselves!) and AGDI are the benchmark in this field. We have nothing but respect for the hard work and dedication that they put into their games, after all, we're one of the few other groups around that understand the amount of dedication these games take to produce.

Do we have personality conflicts at times? Yes. Of course we do. I think you have to have a certain amount of ego (no pun intended) to persevere in these fan games, and sometimes we piss people over here off, and sometimes they piss us off. In the end, it's usually crap that doesn't actually matter. But on the fundamental level, I know we have a great respect for AGDI and what they do and I believe and hope they have respect for us. It's a Sierra / LucasArts thing. We might be in competition but we still get along.

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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:59 am 
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I'm sure your comments are appreciated by the relevant people. I just want to clarify that I was not making a dig at anyone in particular (at least not with the line you cited), including Infamous Adventures, a group with which I'm not very familiar (though I may have played and enjoyed one of their games... King's Quest 3 remake, I believe?). I know that AGDI, per se, does not have commercial aspirations... I was referring to their Himalaya brand.

What I meant is just that I had formed that impression based on posts I had read here and there over the years... I don't even remember where or who wrote them. Of course AGDI has rightfully earned the respect of so many, but I remember at one point also reading some disappointing posts... I don't remember it out and out bashing AGDI, but it just seemed like a chilly reception that struck me as perhaps a sign of envy. Wish I could offer more specifics. It has remained in my memory because I was surprised and disappointed to see some people unwilling to give AGDI their full due for successfully completing projects of an all-around excellent caliber. Again, I'm not suggesting that AGDI hasn't received widespread and deserved accolades, which it thankfully has.

And on an unrelated sidenote about the AGS Awards... just want to say again that I believe I've said all I want to say about that. I think I made my point already about that whole ordeal.

Klytos wrote:
What are anti-AGDI tendencies anyway? If that's a dig at Infamous Adventures, and I think it is because you quoted my entire message, I'd like to set a couple of things straight.

We've never had a problem with AGDI's commercial intentions. AGDI doesn't have commercial intentions. Himalaya does, and released Al Emmo which most of us at IA bought, some of us enjoyed and some didn't. Which is pretty much the same with every game ever made. Some people like it, some people don't. As for AGDI, most of us at IA have been members of the Tierra / AGDI forums for many many years. I'm around the release of KQ2, Broomie even earlier. Blackthorne and I started IA on these very forums. We certainly don't have any issues with AGDI's work. We love remakes (we make them ourselves!) and AGDI are the benchmark in this field. We have nothing but respect for the hard work and dedication that they put into their games, after all, we're one of the few other groups around that understand the amount of dedication these games take to produce.

Do we have personality conflicts at times? Yes. Of course we do. I think you have to have a certain amount of ego (no pun intended) to persevere in these fan games, and sometimes we piss people over here off, and sometimes they piss us off. In the end, it's usually crap that doesn't actually matter. But on the fundamental level, I know we have a great respect for AGDI and what they do and I believe and hope they have respect for us. It's a Sierra / LucasArts thing. We might be in competition but we still get along.


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 Post subject: Re: AGDI gains an AGS Award for Quest for Glory 2 VGA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:29 pm 
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I think Erpy already mentioned this has been discussed enough so lets cool it for awhile ;)


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