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 Post subject: Some questions and thoughts
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:17 am 
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I am replaying the game atm and, as before, I am enjoying it greatly, so again, thank you for making this remake. However, I decided to play with the parser a little, something I stayed away from before, and noticed what just might possibly be room for improvement.

Now I was under the impression that the stuff left out of the point and click tree dialogues was just for clowning around and doing absurd things. However I am finding some dialogue options in the parser which I don't quite see why they were left out. Example: you can ask the poet Omar about things like Rakeesh, and the WIT. That would fit quite well under the "Shapeir" dialogue, which includes options to ask about Aziza, Adventurer's Guild etc, wouldn't it?

It's not a big deal, of course, just wondering if you guys are at all considering another release at all. And just in case you are, you might want to consider making the tree dialogues more complete, for those of us who generally are allergic to parsers and syntax guessing. Just a thought.

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Last edited by Markus Ramikin on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Omissions in the tree dialogue view?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:57 am 
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Also I'd like to ask a question and I might as well avoid spamming this forum with an extra topic so I'll toss it here:

What does the difficulty slider do exactly? I know, from reading the FAQ by CyricZ, that they affect hitpoints of enemies, anything else?

One thing that is a shame is that neither the speed nor the difficulty sliders affect the speed at which combat plays out...

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 Post subject: Re: Omissions in the tree dialogue view?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:41 am 
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The dialogue trees weren't designed to completely substitute the parser stuff...they're merely there to give people who don't like to type subjects into the textbox a way to play through the game, but most trees don't contain every single bit of non-jokey dialogue in there...they merely contain everything you need to complete the game and get a good image of the characters, but in order to completely pick a character's brain the parser or combo interface is needed. But nothing you miss when limiting yourself to P&C is required to finish or enjoy the game.

The difficulty slider affects the following things in battle:

- Acting frequency: on harder levels, monsters act and attack more frequently
- Behavior: on the easiest level, most monsters won't use any of their nastier attacks
- Damage bonus: on the easier levels, you occasionally get a small damage bonus added to your basic attacks
- Enemy HP: the harder the level, the higher the monster's HP will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Omissions in the tree dialogue view?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:57 pm 
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All right then, I'm going to keep playing with the combined interface then. I like the dialogue trees, but often enough I get ideas for something that would make sense and yet isn't in the them, and it works, like thanking the lampmaker for giving me the lamp for free. I just used to be convinced that the trees were more or less exhaustive except for easter egg type stuff. But I am enlightened now, thanks. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Some more stuff I'd like to ask about if I may. :)

- When I fight jackalmen, the amount of money I can loot afterwards seems to depend on how the corpses fall in the end. If I kill 5 of them, and they all fall in different places, I get 5 loads of loot. But if the corpses overlap in, say two piles of 2 and 3 corpses each, I only get two loads, and they are not bigger. I can't seem to loot the corpses separately no matter where I click on them, the game seems to recognize them as a single entity. But the lootable monies seem the same as for a single jackalman. Which means if you want to maximise the monetary benefit, you not only have to beat the jackalmen, but also pay attention to where the one you're currently killing is standing... which is silly. Is this intended or an oversight?

- It's possible to become a wizard despite starting in a different class than a magic user. Would it be possible for your class name on the character screen to actually change to wizard at that moment? Or would that mess up the rest of the game in terms of puzzle points, EOF availability, and what not.

- Also, since after passing the WIT exam you're officially a wizard even if your character screen won't say so, is there a reason you can't get both upgraded attack spells like the magic user can?

(Yes, I do unashamedly enjoy cross-trained characters. Specialisation is for insects, as R. Heinlein put it)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:41 pm 
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The piles of jackalmen do give a bit more money than a single jackalmen body, but it's not worth it because you get more from all the extra piles. Note that the messages you get when looking at jackalmen piles are different for each size, so I encourage you to try building a pile of five at least once.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Quote:
- When I fight jackalmen, the amount of money I can loot afterwards seems to depend on how the corpses fall in the end. If I kill 5 of them, and they all fall in different places, I get 5 loads of loot. But if the corpses overlap in, say two piles of 2 and 3 corpses each, I only get two loads, and they are not bigger. I can't seem to loot the corpses separately no matter where I click on them, the game seems to recognize them as a single entity. But the lootable monies seem the same as for a single jackalman. Which means if you want to maximise the monetary benefit, you not only have to beat the jackalmen, but also pay attention to where the one you're currently killing is standing... which is silly. Is this intended or an oversight?


It's intentional. It means it pays off a little bit to carefully line up the corpses instead of standing in the top row and swinging that blade like crazy. It also makes some sense that it's easier to overlook loose change when you're searching a whole pile of corpses instead of a single body.

Quote:
- It's possible to become a wizard despite starting in a different class than a magic user. Would it be possible for your class name on the character screen to actually change to wizard at that moment? Or would that mess up the rest of the game in terms of puzzle points, EOF availability, and what not.


The "wizard" title is merely for show. We changed the class name "magic user" to "wizard" if you finished WIT as a mage because both class names describe the same class type. Slapping a "wizard" title on the status screen of a fighter would hopelessly confuse players and changing the actual class would probably majorly mess things up.

Quote:
- Also, since after passing the WIT exam you're officially a wizard even if your character screen won't say so, is there a reason you can't get both upgraded attack spells like the magic user can?


Aziza only plays her minigame with actual wizards, not with hybrid thieves/fighters. While there are plenty of things people can do as long as they have the proper skills for it, there are still SOME things in the game that are exclusive to a particular class. No reason to COMPLETELY destroy the game's replay value, after all. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:59 pm 
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All right, that makes sense I guess.

I guess it just irks me storywise that i'm being treated as a second class wizard ;) "Oh, hm, this one's more muscular than I'm used to, and I think I see sword callouses on that hand. Never mind that he's obviously a skilled magic user and passed the WIT's exams, I'd better not play my game with him."

Anyhoo. Thanks for the responses.

DrJones wrote:
I encourage you to try building a pile of five at least once.

*grin* Saw it. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Irk or not, that's exactly what you are storywise. (and get used to it...stuff like magical staves will also remain beyond your reach if you don't start out as a magic user) A thief or fighter who gets assigned the magic skill at the start of the game is meant to dabble in the magical arts. Since your hero does not actually talk, it's not very clear, but at various points in the series, it's suggested that the fighter, mage and thief (and paladin) have different personalities. The fighter is meant to be a bit of a brute...heroic, but still someone who sees violence as the optimal way to solve problems rather than a necessary evil. The mage is the calmer, non-confrontational type. The thief is meant to be a bit of a jackass with a good heart, but a selfish nature. The pally is a goody-two-shoes who takes honor over pragmatism. That's why certain women in QFG5 prefer certain classes and avoid others. A thief who can toss force bolts or open chests from a distance with a flick of his fingers is still a thief at heart who sees magic as a tool to compliment his native abilities. So yeah, storywise you're a second-rate wizard. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:28 am 
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Not true actually. When I imported my fighter-who-passed-WIT-and-refused-paladinhood save to Q3, I was automatically classified as a wizard. :) Got Keapon's gift, too. Very appropriate, I think.

So it's just Aziza being a [expletive deleted] for no good reason at all. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:36 am 
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Actually, that's QfG3's import system being screwy. The developers had such a problem with it that they introduced the class-change option upon import because they weren't sure they'd fixed everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:53 am 
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Yeah probably. I'm just supremely pleased that it's screwy in a way that enforces my vision of my character's personal development. ;)

I never believed in squishy wizards, anyway. Wizards should be like the Taken in Black Company, like Asha'man in Wheel of Time, like... Gandalf, dual wielding two long weapons, including a longsword ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:12 am 
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Yeah, QFG3 tends to have trouble properly recognizing classes when characters have more than just their native skills...it's meant to look at a lot more aspects than merely whether a character has Reversal.

Personally, I like squishy wizards. I prefer my characters to be balanced with flaws that have to be overcome by proper use of the character's strengths. I dislike the God Mode Sue kind of characters that can do everything, not just because the process of maxing every stat in the book in each game crosses the line between repetitive and tedious for me, but also because I know very few people who are good at absolutely everything and thus characters with only strengths and no weaknesses come across as unrealistic to me.

That philosophy could have had a bigger impact on QFG2VGA than it ended up having though, since it wasn't just me who got to make the design decisions on this one. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:59 am 
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Erpy wrote:
That philosophy could have had a bigger impact on QFG2VGA than it ended up having though, since it wasn't just me who got to make the design decisions on this one. :)

*shudder* yeah, I suspected as much. ;) I guess there's something to be thankful for there!

Face it, not everyone enjoys their fiction the same way you do, nor has to. :) Besides, any character which is "you", in almost any game, will be something of a Mary Sue, barring occasional Cutscene Incompetence. Take any game and just think about the number of enemies, often described as "elite" ones, you defeat over the course of it. How realistic is it? Not very. So, Mary Sues make for poor books and movies (most of the time), but they're just not very much avoidable in games.

So I just roll with that. In fact I generally play my "main" character, in any game, as if his goal was nothing short of divinity itself. Insofar as the setting and story permit, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:04 am 
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Hm. The note from EOF said that if I don't obey, I'll "regret" it. Is this followed up upon in some way if you don't show up? I tested playing further while ignoring the note and I didn't notice any terrible vengence ;) is it just an empty threat or did I miss something?

More importantly:
I finished the game 7 puzzle points short. I couldn't figure it out so I checked with CyricZ's list and apparently I'm supposed to get them for crossing the underground river by jumping on the wood logs and onto the other side. That didn't happen to me for some reason, I reloaded the save and jumping across doesn't reward me any puzzle points. I'm playing a hybrid fighter. Any ideas? Is it a bug or am I doing something wrong?
EDIT: on further re-testing, I got those missing points when... I fell down on the next screen after that (on my way to the lava room). Go figure.

Just wanted to remark on two things while I'm posting
- I really like the music during endgame. I imagine that's this remake's contribution, rather than something that was in the original version of the game?
- I unlocked battle mode (accidentally, I might add). Holy crap, that's cool. Makes me all the more sad that there isn't a way to legitimately control combat speed during standard gameplay, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:42 pm 
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I could swear the music during the endgame is simply rerecorded in digital format. That is, it sounds as good as it was originally meant to sound, but it wasn't enhanced.

If you accidentally unlocked battle mode, I guess you accidentally wandered upon cheesehead in the desert and accidentally defeated him. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Nah, I ended up being bored after maxing my skills but just sleeping the days away didn't feel right, so I decided to look for him anyway. What was "accidental" about it is I never looked up the exact conditions for unlocking battle mode and didn't realize I had them all. :) I guess I meant to say "unintentionally" or "without specifically planning to" rather than "accidentally".

As to the music, I never finished the original game, just... couldn't force myself to do it. EGA hurts my brain. :p I guess I am biased to assume if something is good, it must be your addition.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:31 pm 
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OK, this isn't a specifically QFG2 question, but hopefully someone can help me anyway. :)

In Quest for Glory 3, what conditions are there to get the dialogue option with Harami, "tell about Rakeesh"? I've revisited him on multiple evenings, gave him food, explored all dialogue options and nothing, I can't get that option to show up. It's annoying. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:51 am 
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I think that comes fairly late in the game -- play through it but don't save over any of your games and visit Harami at night as often as you can, I'm sure it will come up eventually!


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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:59 am 
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You must visit him early and often. Preferably start by returning to Tarna right after meeting the Laibon for the first time and visit him then, while collecting dispel potion ingredients and after freeing the leopard girl.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Hm, yeah, the last option showed up pretty late. I was sure the 5+ times I played this game before (long ago) all showed up on the same night, I just had to keep coming back, so I was surprised. I was considering replaying from the start because I thought something was buggy, good thing I listened to craya instead.

Thanks, guys. :)

Is there anywhere to practice picklocking or climbing in that game btw? as a non-thief char that is, so I don't get to do the "steal the spear of death" part.

EDIT: Ah, screw it, I ended up with 478 puzzle points for some reason. I checked CyricZ's pointlist and I can't find anything that I missed. Oh well, QFG3 is my least favorite game in the series, and I'm about to move on to my most favorite one so I'm just going to live with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Not that I know of. I always save lockpicking and climbing practice for QFG4.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Okay, I'm not there yet, but I was looking at the QFG LP, specifically at this:
http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/qfg/Updat ... index.html
It there's a video on that page that displays the Paladin skill Destroy Undead, and it looks spectacular, with the undead gibbing in big streaks of blue. Less importantly, but it also seems that the spell destroys them in one hit.

Well, I've played QFG 5 more than once and I remember the Destroy Undead spell was way less showy than this, it just showed a little blue sparkle when an enemy was destroyed. So I feel a little cheated because the way it's shown in the video, it's rather awesome and I'd like to be able to see it in my game when I get to that.

Are there some different versions of the game that do this differently, some patch I don't know about, or what? Can anyone help?

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Last edited by Markus Ramikin on Mon May 24, 2010 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:46 am 
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As I recall, the potency of Destroy Undead is partially dependent on statistics, namely Honor. I seem to recall seeing an actual damage formula somewhere, but I don't recall exactly where. In any case, you can hold down the mouse button to charge the spell, much like with offensive spells in AGDI's QfG2. That's how you get the high-damage version of the ability's effect, complete with overt destruction of the undead.

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 Post subject: Re: Some questions
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:30 am 
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Brainiac wrote:
As I recall, the potency of Destroy Undead is partially dependent on statistics, namely Honor. I seem to recall seeing an actual damage formula somewhere, but I don't recall exactly where.

I found a savegame that was just before the meeting with Cerberus, and tested from it. I have everything except swimming maxed to 500/550, including Honor, so that's not it.

I tried to find this formula you speak of, but uncle Google doesn't seem to know...

Quote:
In any case, you can hold down the mouse button to charge the spell, much like with offensive spells in AGDI's QfG2. That's how you get the high-damage version of the ability's effect, complete with overt destruction of the undead.

Are you certain of this? Is there some trick to it? When I click on an enemy, the spell acts instantly, regardless of whether I released the button or not.
Also doesn't seem to be spending any time at all charging up in the video...

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