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 Post subject: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:35 am 
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Firstly, I would like to say that I have eagerly awaited this game's re-release and have enjoyed finding so many improvements along the way. The enhanced art, the combination interface, not to mention fleshed out music and facial pics bring me back to being a kid playing Trial by Fire for the first time. It was all so magical and wondrous.

Now, I tried the search engine, and perhaps this has been mentioned and I was just not diligent enough in my search, but I couldn't find this specifically. Combat is just stupid hard in this remade game. I have finished the game, as a mage and as a fighter and was thinking that perhaps there was simply a class difference. It seems from what I have found online, that that is true, but the fighter actually has the tougher time in certain places. Now, I am no slouch and I train my Hero to be the best he can be, and when I unlocked the blue frog(shame on you for restricting it) I used it to restore my full former glory. Everything is still retarded hard. Now, I know that combat is a central point in this game for many people, and I even enjoy it a lot myself, but when all my stats exceed 200 and a brigand can still wipe the floor with me, there is a serious problem. I am not a finger twitching action gamer, and QfG was never really designed for that sort of player in the first place. It just seems to me that in the old game, having 100 or so in the relevant stats and skills made you a very tenacious and deadly adversary in combat, while 200s made the hero into a god among men. I try and I try, but I have to say that the combat is the reason that I just can't play this game without the constant save and reload if I want to do anything outside the city gates. I would also like to mention that the attention to expanding the combat system is great, as a swordsman myself I appreciate all the fun animations and thought behind the new fighting style, it just seems that everything is just so much more difficult than it should be.

Anyhow, thanks for an overall great work on the remake and taking me back years to the fun of EGA Trial by Fire. I have enjoyed everything but the combat immensely, and look forward to seeing what you have in store for us in the future. If there is any way around this please let me know, but either way thanks for reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:27 am 
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Have you lowered the arcade difficulty slider? At its minimum, most opponents don't really use their special attacks, have lower hp and become less aggressive.

Also, have you tried using the co-pilot feature? Setting it completely to defense will cause the hero to defend against attacks about 80% of the time as long as you're not attacking at that very same moment.

Between these two actions, battle should become a lot more managable.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Actually I have done both. Honestly I wouldn't have mentioned it at all if I hadn't exhausted my own possible remedies. Perhaps I am just not getting the rhythm of the new combat system. Even with the slider set to the easiest setting and the defensive assist on the typical brigand brings me down to about 80-85 health(from 250) if I try to actually fight him, and not use magic on him.

As I said, it could be a failing on my part, but I demolished a weapon instructor in the first game, and used to do the same to everything in Shapeir. Now I get schooled every time I touch a melee weapon. The only problem is that the school of hard knocks only hands out Fs.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:44 pm 
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If you're a fighter, learn how to use the double slash and triple slash after learning those. Counterattacks work pretty well too. Having a fine sword helps.

As a mage or thief, you really shouldn't pretend to be a fighter and focus on close combat...that's kinda against the style of your class to begin with. As a mage, practice your combat spells, always try to have a zap spell on your weapon, get both projectile upgrades and smite the brigand from several rows away. As a thief, sneak up on the enemy, bury a dagger in their back and use double slashes and repeat-dagger tosses to shave off the few hp they have left. The thief can do slightly more damage by keeping the silver dagger. Both the mage and thief can use the double slash too, but even then, they're a lot better off using the strengths innate to their classes.

BTW, for brigands on easy, setting the co-pilot all the way to defense, emphasising dodge (instead of block) and misc instead of sidestep will make your hero duck the brigand's swings most of the time (mash the swing-button for a rising slash if you're the fighter) and jump backwards out of range, at times retaliating with a lunge if you have high luck or the zap spell enabled.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:19 pm 
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I appreciate all the help, really, but I know all that already. It isn't that I don't know *how* to fight, or what tactics to use, its simply that the Reaper is much too close when I decide to do so. The brigand was just an example, he and the scorpion are the only two things I can manage to kill with melee attacks only, even as a fighter. I don't know, its a great remake and I have enjoyed it greatly but perhaps it is just not for me. I think I may have to stick with the original version where I can kill anything I like on the hardest setting without any problems. Really, before now I didn't realize the scorpion sting was instantly fatal. I actually had to buy antidote pills... weak.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:44 am 
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When I first tried the game, I slid the slider to maximum (styling myself a veteran Quester). After Uhura's spinning spear humiliated me in a short bout, the slider crept back down to a reasonable level. I don't think that combat is particularly hard in this game, but it does have a small learning curve. Once you get the hang of parrying and dodging along with the double and triple swings, it really starts picking up and you can raise the slider higher and higher with your comfort level. The fast-paced fights you get into at maximum difficulty really give the combat here an explosive and memorable flare.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:26 pm 
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The first time I played, I played as a thief. I sold my silver daggers. I had no problems fighting at all with the co-pilot on, I whooped most everything (once I'd trained with Uhura a whole bunch to get my mad skillz going on!) The only time I've died in combat is when the scorpion grabbed me and picked me up and squished me -- which there's not much you can do about if you don't notice it's about to happen.
Was I just lucky here or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:18 am 
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The combat system seems much harder than the original, but it's very good. I've started the QFG2 remake with a thief, so I suspect the other two classes should have a little easier go with it. Was the programmers' intent to use Uhura's training room until you could survive in the desert? I just bought a bunch of Stamina pills, and now brigands and jackalmen are manageable. I refuse to lower the difficulty bar below normal, so I'll just have to figure it out! Again, thanks for all the work you all put into the remake.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:04 am 
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Somewhat. If you just want to go for puzzle points, you don't need to enter the desert until day 12 and QFG2 is the only QFG game where you get free and unlimited combat practice. If Uhura wasn't there, the monsters would have received a major nerfing instead, most likely.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:46 pm 
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I tried messing with video settings to get an antialiased look. When I finally had one, the game ran MUCH more sluggishly, and combat was impossibly hard. So I went back to the good old 640x480 (nothing less works with my video card) and the game runs much much faster... and combat is pretty easy. With the difficulty slider all the way up the only monsters that give me problems are the ghoul and Terrorsaurus. With everything maxed to 200, Brigands die in two blasts of fireball... or very quickly with just double hit.

So I'm curious if the orginal poster had the game running quickly or not, or maybe had massive video lag? But even just spamming Slash (as a mage) over and over seemed to kill brigands without using more than half my health right at the start of the game.


I guess I just write to encourage anyone considering the EGA over VGA because of combat difficulty... it really did not seem bad at all to me, and with the slider to really easy monsters just let you mow them down. (Maybe there has been patches since the OP?)


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:18 am 
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Naw, version 1.1 came out only a month after the initial release of the game. (and it did give you a small damage boost on easier levels)

Funny you mention it...certain video settings (like HQ3x) do slow down the game, but some people actually think that makes it easier, since you get more time to react to attacks this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Indeed. That was the only way I could beat the PE the first time, by changing the graphics so that the game would run slower.

At first, I was mad that the combat system was so complicated, specially with the PE, but I have to admit that after a couple of playthroughs (is that a word?) now I can play with any character at normal difficulty with no copilot and no problems. I never used the copilot, even when I was having troubles with the combat system, because I felt I needed to really learned it without external help, and you know what? it worked, I forced myself to learn the combos, anticipate the enemies and react very quickly.

Just be patient, once you get it it becomes very natural.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:33 pm 
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I only ever play as a thief and when I first played the combat took some learning with Uhura but it seemed really balanced after that. I never touched copilot or difficulty so I don't know what the defaults were. Still I suppose I had an imported hero with mostly 80s for stats. I'll have to try a fresh run one day.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Maybe it's just because I was a little girl of 10 when I played the original the first time, but I thought the original game was stupid hard and I had no such problems with this remake. I had the slider all the way down and it was just pure fun. I slaughtered Khaveen as a fighter without any real problems. Are you sure you're using the combos and everything? Hitting 7-9-7 on the number keypad was just about all I needed to do, instant knockdown and time to replenish a bit of stamina, and hitting E when I saw a low slash coming or 2 when I saw a high one coming was even better at putting the hurt on enemies. It's easiest to start out with Uhura cause she teaches you these things and seems to move a lot slower than the enemies out there so you can practice watching the movements of your opponent's body to see what they're about to do.

Playing as a mage was hilariously easy as long as I managed to keep at a medium distance; too close and they'll hit you before you fire, too far and they'll dodge your missiles easily. But once you improve your stats and learn how to charge up from Aziza, things tend to die in like one hit. The dagger is a nice supplement; you want to be safe if they do get too close to blast with bolts and darts.

Seriously, I'm a lightweight at this stuff, I'm more for games like the Thief and Mass Effect series where you either have stealth as the point or a vast arsenal of weapons and abilities at your disposal, but I still made it work. I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would have so much difficulty. It felt incredibly instinctive to me. Maybe that's because I trained so much with Uhura, I don't know.

I guess my best recommendation is, don't cheat because you're only cheating yourself out of the training you need to survive. Stick with Uhura in the beginning; buy lots of vigor pills, take them religiously, and don't venture out until you're able to knock her on her rump 10 times without really breaking a sweat. That's when you're ready, and that's when combat becomes truly fun and almost relaxing.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:06 am 
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Wynne and the rest of you who have no problem - are you running an anti-aliasing filter by any chance? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:24 am 
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Nope, no anti-aliasing, no extra anything. Just playing the game. *shrugs* I really don't understand why everyone seems to find it so difficult. :\


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:40 am 
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Me neither. I used a filter once because I just needed to beat the Pizza Elemental and was having a hard time. But as I said, with practice it became natural. Now I can beat the PE after 3 or 4 tries, even with the thief. No slowing down the game, no filters or anything at all. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:30 am 
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crayauchtin wrote:
I really don't understand why everyone seems to find it so difficult. :\

Because it leaves really little room for reactions. When fighting, say, a Terrorsaurus, that thing has multiple different attacks and it's hard to win unless you can recognize in time what it's going to do. At maximum combat speed, there just isn't time for that kind of decisions, I have to keep applying a pre-decided technique and hope it turns out all right.

So either you guys have slower computers and effectively play a slower game, or I don't know, the rest of us just suck.

Also I don't know how much you've played the game and how much effort put into learning the combat; me, I'm not going to practice as long and hard as I would to play multiplayer Street Fighter or something. As I said before, it's a QFG game, not a dedicated combat game, it shouldn't be too hardcore. :) Atm I feel it's out of line in this respect, as compared to the rest of the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:01 am 
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Markus Ramikin wrote:
crayauchtin wrote:
I really don't understand why everyone seems to find it so difficult. :\

Because it leaves really little room for reactions. When fighting, say, a Terrorsaurus, that thing has multiple different attacks and it's hard to win unless you can recognize in time what it's going to do. At maximum combat speed, there just isn't time for that kind of decisions, I have to keep applying a pre-decided technique and hope it turns out all right.

So either you guys have slower computers and effectively play a slower game, or I don't know, the rest of us just suck. Also I don't know how much you've played the game and how much effort put into learning the combat; me, I'm not going to practice as long and hard as I would to play multiplayer Street Fighter or something. As I said before, it's a QFG game, not a dedicated combat game, it shouldn't be too hardcore. :)


I agree with you when you say that a Terrorsaurus has multiple attacks and it's hard to recognize in time what it's going to do. However i think that in combat there should be some surprise attacks that you shouldn't be able to dodge unless you get lucky or GUESS what your opponent is going to do. Furthermore, i don't think you should be able to kill a Terrorsaurus with ease especially at the start of the game. Have you tried fighting a Terrorsaurus in the original QFG games? I think the combat is just as hard in the original games, here it's just more creative and interesting. If you find it hard then avoid the fight till your character is stronger, you don't have to kill a Terrorsaurus to finish the game anyway. You are right again when you say that its a QFG game and not a dedicated combat game but if i'm not mistaken you can finish the game without having to fight a single monster, (except from the palace guards and Khaveen at the end of the game and only if you are a pure fighter). I've finished the game multiple times with all the combinations of character stats you can think of, and the only monsters that gave me some trouble was the ghoul and Terrorsaurus but that was just only at the beginning when my character was weak.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:20 am 
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Actually QFG 1 combat is ridiculously easy. If your weapon skill is high, all you need to do is keep the attack button pressed until it's over, unless you run out of stamina, which you never do once your char is developed. Well, with most enemies anyway. The few that do require actually paying some attention to the screen aren't much harder.

As to QFG 2, yes, I know that my character performs better if I've built up my skills. However, I have 200s across the character sheet right now and I still find the fights at maximum speed hard to the point of randomness. And yes, you need to kill a terrorsaurus if you want the puzzle points as a fighter. Besides, it was just an example, it isn't the only opponent that's hard for the same reason.

So yeah, you can finish the game while avoiding much of the combat. But I am not claiming that "the game is unbeatable", I am claiming that "combat is hard". Whether that combat is avoidable is therefore irrelevant to the point.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:59 pm 
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You make some valid points with the full moveset vs. limited moveset, but I still stand behind the decision to difference the difficulty levels the way they are now. The thing with allowing enemies to use their full movesets on easy mode (making, indeed, for more satisfying gameplay) is that there'd be very little incentive for the player to practice his actual playing skills if all he got out of a harder setting was faster (or rather normal) combat speed.

As for the terrorsaurus, you're right two of his attacks are difficult to distinguish. (his kick and his bite) This is only a problem, however, if you insist on countering them. His mauling attack (always takes place from 2 spaces away) and his headbutt (always takes place from 1 space away) are easy to see coming and can both be sidestepped. His tail sweep has a fairly distinct animation so once you get used to it, it's fairly easy to avoid and even if you accidentally sidestep, you'll still take little damage. (getting hit while sidestepping results in reduced damage) That leaves his bite and kick attack, which are more difficult to anticipate, but both can be sidestepped. As long as your HP and SP are high enough when the battle starts, you should be able to outlast the critter.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:50 pm 
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The trick with the Terrorsaurus is not to be defensive.

Uhura says he's a powerful fighter, but stupid. He's not very good at dodging your attacks.

Enemies do suffer from hitstun, so go on the offensive. He won't be able to attack you if he's constantly on the floor.

The brigand, however, is a counter-type opponent. If you attack him, he'll try to block and attack back. The trick, then, is to immediately hit the parry button if you're a Fighter, and then attack immediately afterwards.

Oh, and train with Uhura as well. It'll help a lot.

If you're a Magic User, Terrorsauruses are a joke. Dazzle, Fire Dart (Charged if Dazzle hits, regular if it didn't), repeat. If it gets close, stab it with a zapped Dagger and charge a Fire Dart (or a Force Bolt if you're backed into your corner).

Thieves can just sneak past terrorsauruses, or get a headstart with a backstab.


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Well, I recently went through the game at maximum speed, no filters, and I'm amazed at how epically dumb the enemies are. Khaveen is the only one who can defend against anything with any consistency, and doesn't stand there for 50%+ time doing nothing and letting me beat on him. Most of my problems were from trying to play this game intelligently, rather than spam the 3-hit combo over and over and over on pretty much any enemy, with an occasional jump back thrown in.

Pizza elemental was fun, because an all-out attack didn't work and I had to include defensive tactics, and I was able to do the duck-slash combo a lot.

But yeah, what I said in the other thread stands. Slower action but with enemies defending better and attacking more often/hitting harder would be just grand. Like the pizza elemental's attack already is - it's considerably slower and more telegraphed than those of other enemies, so I'm able to respond to it with intelligent choice.

And yeah of course the whole discussion applies only to fighters. Force bolt trumps all.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:09 pm 
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I dont get one thing: I keep losing against Uhura because my stamina fall to 0 before i can deal some decent damage (with a mage) is that normal ? I hope i dont need all the stats to 200 to go in the desert or i have to put this game in the trashcan :rolleyes


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 Post subject: Re: Combat is *way* too hard
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Cocoon wrote:
I dont get one thing: I keep losing against Uhura because my stamina fall to 0 before i can deal some decent damage (with a mage) is that normal ? I hope i dont need all the stats to 200 to go in the desert or i have to put this game in the trashcan :rolleyes


You don't need them to be maxed at 200 to go into the desert. I've played all the classes in the remake and I rarely spent much time with Uhura. I did train up some in the beginning, but once my magic skill was high enough, I just played with Aziza in the magic games to get my magic up and then spammed spells before any enemy got close. The only enemy I really had difficulty with were the Jackals when they were in large packs.

As a mage, you're not going to do a lot damage physically and unless you're really dead set on it, it's not required that you spend a lot with her as a mage. You're not required to fight any of the random monsters in the desert as a mage (only the fighter for puzzle points), so you can just run away if you feel it's too hard to fight.


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