"Feed me Seymour!"

Message

etherlad · #26 Post by **etherlad** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:55 pm

I say we all give up and just learn Klingon! What? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> nuqdaq yuch Dapol! _______________ Ian Watson <a href="http://www.wolf-spoor.org" target="top">WolfSpoor</a>

Vildern · #27 Post by **Vildern** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:04 pm

Please relate to the following points: A) Wolfgang: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> many languages, you can look at a word and, not knowing what it means or having never seen it before, can work out a correct pronunciation<hr></blockquote> Yehh, Hebrew is something like that. But, it depends. In Hebrew there is something that you can call: 'Signs', that look like dots. You can call them punctuation marks. If a foreigner reads a Hebrew word without those signs, then it is next to impossible for him to say the word correctly. But, if you read with the signs ('dots'), then it is the easiest thing. Yehh, ‘Chutspa' is in Hebrew. And, it has 2 sounds that don't exist in English. Generally, Hebrew has 3 sounds that don't exist in English. The first one is: 'CH', the one you mentioned. If you want to learn German, you will have to learn how to say 'CH', cause it exists in German too. The second one is: 'Tsa'. Try to say it very quickly and you will discover a new sound that doesn't exist in English. Say the 'T' there as if it was alone, like a very short 'Ta', but without the 'a' being heard, should be said very quickly. And the third one is: A'a. Should be very hard to explain how it sounds like, so I won't. Me too can't make that sound work in my mouth correctly. And why do you think Hebrew is difficult? If I listen to a foreign language, how can I say it is hard/easy by hearing? And, English has 2 sounds that doesn't exist in Hebrew (and French by the way): 'Th' and your 'CH', like in 'Match. BTW, I think English is the only language with 'TH', but I'm not sure. Here is something interesting to know: Some of the letters are a combination of other letters. Imagine that there were one letter saying 'TH', and then you wouldn't need to use that combination. Take for example your "CH". It is not an only sound, but a combination of: "tsa + sha". Our 'tsa' (the one I stated before) + sha. Now say it very quickly: 'Tsa+ sha' and you will get your: "CH". Another example: "G" is a combination of: " Dja". D + Ja. And I have to say that I disagree with you about French. IMO, it is easier reading a French word than an English word. That is because that the sounds in French always sounds the same, ‘eu', for example, will all always sound the same. On the other hand, sounds in English don't sound the same always. For example, the easiest example I could think of: the word: ‘Do'. It sounds like ‘Doo'. In English, sounds often sound differently. Now you are probably wondering where is point ‘B' and ‘C' ... well, I put them all in ‘A' <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> Wolfgang: Post your email, I'd like to send you something. It will prove you wrong (can I say succha sentence? Correct me if I'm wrong). <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... Vildern</A> at: 4/24/03 6:26:19 pm

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #28 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:32 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>And I have to say that I disagree with you about French. IMO, it is easier reading a French word than an English word.<hr></blockquote> I agree with you here. I was comparing French and German, not French and English. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Post your email, I'd like to send you something. It will prove you wrong<hr></blockquote> Uh...great! That's certainly something to look forward to! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> What exactly is it that I was wrong about, anyway? Well, anyway my email address is in my profile, so you can just send it to that if you like. ~Wolfgang

adeyke · #29 Post by **adeyke** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:47 pm

I think an even better example than plough/cough would be bomb/comb/tomb <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> . Then there are words like read (present)/read (past), where the spelling is identical but the pronunciation is different. English is a silly language <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> . In French, once you know the rules of pronunciation, you can pronounce about any word without having heard or seen it before. But even that has exceptions. And 'th' can be two different sounds, one soft (e.g. "the") and one hard (e.g. "thing"). I think another big issue with the languages is the letter R. I really hate the English R <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> . I like the German and French Rs much better <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> .

Vildern · #30 Post by **Vildern** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:19 am

Hihi. In some languages the ‘R' is very very vague <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Wolfgang, maybe tomorrow I shall send it. But! It will be around 2-3 mega. Can your email receive that? <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

The Knight · #31 Post by **The Knight** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:26 am

Ummmmmm. How exactly did this turn into a discussion about languages? The Knight <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1799499.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Vildern · #32 Post by **Vildern** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:27 am

The file I want to send him is about languages. It will prove him wrong! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"> <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

anathoth8 · #33 Post by **anathoth8** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:59 am

Then of course you get into words that are spelled different, but pronounced the same. Rain: Water from the sky. Rein: A strap to control a horse. Reign: To rule. Then there are words that are spelled the same, but are pronounced differently, and have different meanings. Refuse (ree FUSE): To turn down. Refuse (Re fuse): Garbage, waste. Then there are a few words that are spelled the same, pronounced the same, but have different meanings. Cleave: Join together. Cleave: Split apart. In this case, the same word has the exact opposite meaning! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> Now tell me that isn't confusing! <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1679471.jpg" style="border:0;"/> "May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce."Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... athoth8</A> at: 4/24/03 9:59:45 pm

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #34 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:53 am

Indeed, anathoth. Those can also cause confusion and ambiguities in pronounciation in native readers of the language, much less those trying to transliterate another language over to English! Yes, isn't English wonderful?! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> And actually, Vildern, I can't accept any file via hotmail that is over 1 meg, so unfortunately I won't be able to receive that. Can't you just tell me what it is you want to say or maybe direct me to a website from which you got the information? I may very well be wrong, but I would certainly like to know about what exactly I am mistaken... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... rassed.gif ALT=":o"> Was it something in my original post or something I have been saying all along? Because the original point that I was trying to make (that being about different spellings when languages are transliterated into English) has already been proven (you even agreed with it yourself). What else did I say that was in error? ~Wolfgang

Vildern · #35 Post by **Vildern** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:14 am

Oh, you can't get a 4 mega file. Oh well, then you just have to keep on living, knowing that there is one little thing that you are not accurate about, but nobody will ever notice it, oh well <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"> I'm afraid I can't post it here. <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Orion · #36 Post by **Orion** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:53 pm

Here Topic! Here boy! *whistles* C'mon! That's a good Topic! *pets Topic* Well, back to "Little Shop of Horrors" In the original, the 1960's version with Mel Welles and Jack Nicholson, the spelling (according to the DVD cover) is Seymour Krelboin, where as in the Musical remake with Rick Moranis, just switch the i to an r. The name Seymour stays the same <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Just to let you know, The play is tonight and tomorrow <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> <hr /><div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://community.vugames.com/WebX31@@3e9d9@104" style="border:0;"/></div>

The Knight · #37 Post by **The Knight** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:10 pm

And the world ends this afternoon. Oh well. So sorry Orion. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> The Knight <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1799499.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Orion · #38 Post by **Orion** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:56 pm

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":b"> I can only hope <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <hr /><div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2337532.jpg" style="border:0;"/></div>

Pidgeot · #39 Post by **Pidgeot** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:20 am

(Set your browser to Cyrillic (Windows) to read the Cyrillic characters) <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Russian has pronounciation and liason rules that do not exist in English and, therefore, it's not always possible to make an exact transliteration down to the very letter.<hr></blockquote> While true that Russian have different pronouncination rules, that does not go for the alphabet's conversion. Although some Cyrillic letters would actually be written as two letters in the Roman alphabet (for example, ß is converted to the letters ya), that does not make a conversion impossible. The '-off'/'-ov' example you're giving is a case where it all depends on the Cyrillic spelling. A V is Â in Cyrillic, where FF is ÔÔ. And while it's also true that many Russian words have many consonants and few vowels, that's only a problem for those who are to pronounce it. Personally, however, I find it to be no problem, as Russian is mainly spelled phonetically, where most of the deviations lies with the vowels. And in case you're wondering, the closest thing I've ever been to Russian is by listening to the music of t.A.T.u. As a matter of fact, it's because of them my interest in Russian has been invoked. I do not understand much Russian (my vocabulary is limited to a few basic words), but I can read Cyrillic with relative ease. Pidgeot ----- Every error you find is the last one.Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... eot1404</A> at: 4/28/03 7:39:49 am

Schloss Ritter · #40 Post by **Schloss Ritter** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:14 pm

The one language foreign to me that I have learned much of is Spanish (Español). The coll thing I remember about it is that pronunciation is very consistent within the language. The words are even phonetically accented in normal writing. Also you could tell how to read a sentence right away bcause of leading punctuation. ¿QuÃ©? ¿Como te llamas? Me llamo schlossritter. ------------------ I think therefore I am ... I think???

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #41 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:57 pm

I'll try to see if this Cyrillic font works so bear with me here! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> Actually, the direct letter-to-letter translation would be possible (going back to Russian here), except not always correct. In the example you gave, the "FF" would be transliterated as "oo" like you said, but the if a word ends in -ia, it would be transliterated as "ov". That would be a direct transliteration, but phonetically incorrect, since when a word (still referring to Russian here) ends in a voiced letter (like the "ov" word we're talking about here), you say the voiceless equivalent to that same letter when actually spoken. Voiced/voiceless equivalents are c = n, a = o, a = e, for example. Take the following words: aeac (eye) would be directly transliterated (letter-for-letter) as glaz. However, when at the end of a word, "c" makes an "s" sound, not a "z" sound, so it would be phonetically transliterated as "glas" in that case. aðoa (friend). Same thing here. Would be directly transliterated as "droog" when phonetically it would sound like "drook". Therefore, a direct letter-to-letter transliteration will not always be phonetically correct, but depending on who transliterates it it can be brought over either directly or phonetically. Same words, two different spellings. That's all I was trying to say. Edit: Drat...looks like the font didn't work. Well, I don't know how to get ezBoards to display Cyrillic fonts like you did Pidgeot, but hopefully you get the point I was trying to make. BTW Orion, how did the play go? ~Wolfgang Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... s>Wolfgang Abenteuer</A> at: 4/28/03 5:04:40 pm

Pidgeot · #42 Post by **Pidgeot** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:22 am

The way I made the board show the Cyrillic charcters, was by writing them in Word (using Insert|Symbol...) and then copy/pasting them into the text field. The same could be done with any other word processor that supports Russian, or by copy/pasting on Cyrillic text from other sites. Please repost using this method, because although I think I uderstood you, I'd prefer to be completely sure that I didn't misunderstand you. However, a comment is called upon. While I agree that a phonetical transliteration is not always possible if we are to keep the exact spelling, that still does not change the fact that an actual letter-by-letter translation is possible, and fully usable. Although many people wouldn't know how to pronounce it properly, the same goes for several English words. For example, the pronouncination of a word like preview hardly comes close to the spelling. Oh, and by the way, if you want to recieve that file Vildern wanted to send you, you could have it split up. There's a great program called SplitFile to do this. I can't remember where to get it, but it's easily found through a search on Google. Pidgeot ----- Every error you find is the last one.

Orion · #43 Post by **Orion** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:18 am

The play went rather better than expected! I used gray hair dye, and had wrinkles painted on my face, as well as a mustache! I'll go into specifics if you want me to! <hr /><div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2337532.jpg" style="border:0;"/></div>

"Feed me Seymour!"

Re: Hehe...

Re: Hehe...

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Hmmm...

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Ummmm..............................................

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Well...

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TOPIC! looks around frantically

GET THE GUN...........................................

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Yep...

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