Forum Unjustice

Message

AsianMusicGuy · #1 Post by **AsianMusicGuy** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:36 pm

I fallowed Chris's advice and toke a shot in the dark and re posted at AGs as stated here " Hi, Branden,

Your plot sounds great and the story is interesting and intriguing. Unfortunately, we can't get involved in any more projects, as we have too much work on our own plate. But good luck in getting your project off the ground.

I would suggest looking on the AGS forums for team members if you have something to show. A lot of people there are also willing to point you in the right direction and offer advice if you are indeed using the AGS engine for your game.

Best of luck,

Chris"

Radiant however toke it upon himself to degrade me in front of the whole ags community now anyone who knows me well knows how much effort and faith into my project I may not have a team or any super skilled to speak of besides storytelling and acting but still i feel a injustice and just thought id get your feed back Erpy feel free to move into random rants if you feel the need
my ags post is here http://new.bigbluecup.com/yabb/index.php?topic=30347.0

KQartist · #2 Post by **KQartist** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:49 am

AsianMusicGuy, don't be discouraged with your efforts. Many of these people lack the understanding that much of their success is acquired by luck, and the generous contributions of many people on these forums who gave them a chance. They disregard the fact that people gave them a chance, but when the roles are reversed, they fail to return the favor.

I've made a response on the AGS forums. As a former member and Lead Background Artist of "A Tale of Two Kingdoms", I felt it was necessary to deal with this matter. Radiant, if you read this post, I want you to learn from what you've done, and be more helpful to beginners in the future.

Branden, good luck with your efforts in assembling a team. I'm sure with persistence and dedication you will achieve success.

#3 Post by **Erpy** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:11 am

I guess he could have applied a little bit more diplomacy in his reply.

Anyway, those documents you linked to seem to be dead links. Regardless, if you want to get ahead in creative endeavours on the internet, it's best to keep practicing and refining your skills.

This is just a personal opinion of mine, but it seems too many people are eager to rush ahead into a big and ambitious project too soon. So even if you don't attract any team members, you can try and tone down the scope of the project and make it a smaller scale mini project that you take care of yourself. (if AGS doesn't give you too many difficulties) Or you could develop your skills through fanfiction.

People these days no longer follow anyone who wants to start a project, so be prepared to lay a large part of the foundations yourself before anyone else will start lending hands. The benefit of this is that you'll come to depend on your own inner motivation (rather than other people's contributions) for progress, which is a requirement in order to eventually finish anything major.

Alistair · #4 Post by **Alistair** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:42 am

I hate me too posts, but I have to say I agree with Erpy's post wholeheartedly.

As someone who runs 2 Sierra-themed forums (as well as had membership in almost of all of them), I've seen so many "I have an idea for a game, let's make it, who'll be my artist and my programmer" etc.

While I'm not saying that this is you, some sort of naive project leader, it does give you an idea of why people are (rightly) skeptical of new projects which don't necessarily have a solid foundation, as Erpy alluded to.

I think everyone's sick of unfinished fangames in the Sierra community, and rightly so.

Finally:

Many of these people lack the understanding that much of their success is acquired by luck, and the generous contributions of many people on these forums who gave them a chance. They disregard the fact that people gave them a chance, but when the roles are reversed, they fail to return the favor.

As far as I know, the only successful Sierra fangames/remakes have been the AGI SQ ones, AGDI's KQ1/2, IA's KQ3 (with more to come that are also big-ticket items).

All of those had a bunch of hard work put in and only got community support because of the sheer workload involved. I don't understand the 'success came from luck' argument at all, it sounds the opposite if anything. I'll leave the rest :X

- Spike

greensenshi · #5 Post by **greensenshi** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:01 am

Erm... I apologize for steering off topic. What were these AGI Space Quest remakes?

Lambonius · #6 Post by **Lambonius** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:48 am

Search around online for "Space Quest: The Lost Chapter" and "Space Quest Zero."

antonyo · #7 Post by **antonyo** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:42 am

Many of these people lack the understanding that much of their success is acquired by luck, and the generous contributions of many people on these forums who gave them a chance. They disregard the fact that people gave them a chance, but when the roles are reversed, they fail to return the favor.

I believe these people you speak of actually helped themselves, put a lot of effort and created what they could create to prove themselves and others thier worth before begging for help.

I believe I would have replied the same way Radiant replied. There's 2 methods to create games, the first consist of creating lot of threads and PMs telling about your idea and how you need programmers, artists and writters to do everything for you because you can't do it yourself.

The second method consist of making the game yourself to prove yourself and others that you're serious, then ask others for help when you actually need it.

AsianMusicGuy seems to have taken the first method, this method however never works. I suggest giving the second method a try.

#8 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:13 am

AsianMusicGuy seems to have taken the first method, this method however never works. I suggest giving the second method a try.

Even so, I would like to mention that there's also two ways to bring exactly the same message across to people who try the first method you described.

- Telling people what they still need to do
- Telling people what they're lacking

Surely there's no argument as to which way is the most constructive, no?

Blackthorne519 · #9 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:38 pm

The world is full of jerks that will quickly tell you what you're doing wrong, and why you're an asshat for doing it.

While they may be right in some ways (Lord knows I've been called an asshat at times when I've been, well, an asshat) it still sucks. But you can take from it, and work harder to "not be an asshat" the next time around.

That said, making a game is hard work, and it involves long hours and an intricate attention to detail. The long hours of work and intricate detail are what turn people off to making games - yet, if they believe in it, it's what gives them the most pleasure.

However, any good worker KNOWS that an intricate eye for detail is required by ALL MEMEBERS who work on a project. Even the writer, and especially the "producer".

The way you write might show people that you have little attention for detail, and it may turn them off to your project.

Bt

AsianMusicGuy · #10 Post by **AsianMusicGuy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:31 am

Wow ice started quite the topic here
Bt: I was Wondering as silly as this sounds if you would take me under your wing so i can learn from you are there any positions at IA i could take purely fr observation purposes or perhaps we can work something out

#11 Post by **Erpy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:52 am

AsianMusicGuy wrote:Wow ice started quite the topic here
Bt: I was Wondering as silly as this sounds if you would take me under your wing so i can learn from you are there any positions at IA i could take purely fr observation purposes or perhaps we can work something out

I personally don't think that would fly. You don't really start learning development skills until you're doing it yourself. Seeing others work just isn't as valuable an experience as doing work yourself.

What skills are you trying to learn, btw? Writing? Programming?

Regardless, I believe Blackthorne's got a point when he said this:

The way you write might show people that you have little attention for detail, and it may turn them off to your project.

(that's not the only good point he made though)

English isn't my native language, but I could still see that there were several spelling/grammar errors in your post. I believe a good start may be to improve your use of correct English spelling and grammar. As BT pointed out, you'll demonstrate the capability to pay attention to detail, which is extremely important. Ever since spelling/grammar checkers have been invented, everybody who takes the time should be able to write without any major spelling errors.

Blackthorne519 · #12 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:33 pm

Erpy's a fine example of what one should strive to be if they want to make/develop games in the vein that we all seem to enjoy around here.

I encourage anyone with a creative idea to hone their skills, and go out and create what they can. However, I won't say that it's NOT A LOT OF WORK AND SACRAFICE. If you want something, you have to strive to make yourself better - not adequate.
Though it's wonderful to have an idea, if you don't possess the tools to develop it, the idea will never bear fruit.

Bt