Fly Wing Woes

[oberonqa]

I've reached the point in the game where I need to steal the pouch of gold from the bandits treehouse lair so I can buy the missing spell ingredients I need to make the remaining spells (cat cookie, storm spell, etc). In the 1986 original game, you spied on the bandits in the tavern by turning into a fly and hearing them talk about the lever in the tree, which enabled you to pull the latch in the tree.

However, I cannot find the fly wing. I have gone all over Llewdor many times looking for it. Can someone please point me in the right direction? I have every other ingredient to finish making the spells except for the ingredients you buy from the shop in Port Bruce.

Thanks in advance and wow what a great remake! I haven't had this much fun with KQ3 in years!

[adeyke]

The fly wing is in the same place it was in the original. However, it'll only be there if you've seen a certain scripted sequence in that room. You might have to try a few times.

[oberonqa]

Ok thanks. Does this scripted sequence only occur when Manannan is in the house or can it happen at any time?

[MusicallyInspired]

Any time.

[oberonqa]

Ok I got it - thank you.

[Enchantermon]

Okay, so.....what conditions have to be fulfilled for this sequence to occur? Because I've been walking up and down the stairs for the past five minutes (literally; I've been watching the clock) and it hasn't yet happened. What's going on?

[MusicallyInspired]

The cat can't be at the bottom of the stairway to the telescope tower. Since the cat triggers the sequence with the fly, it doesn't make sense that he would magically teleport ahead of you and appear in the tower before you get there.

[Enchantermon]

Well, there have been a couple of times where he has been there, but most of the time he isn't, and still no fly.

EDIT: Finally, it happened.
You know, this is interesting. This is the second time I've tried to trigger the fly sequence; the first time I succeeded without trying nearly as long (two or three minutes of game time as opposed to 10). Unfortunately, I had to restore to before I got them. The interesting thing is that both times, the sequence didn't trigger until after the timer switched from green to yellow. Coincidence?

[Solarkid]

i've been going in and out of the tower, each time when the cat was there and no sequence seems to trigger

[Enchantermon]

i've been going in and out of the tower, each time when the cat was there and no sequence seems to trigger

You mean you've gone up the stairway when the cat was at the bottom of the stairway? If so, that won't work; as MI said, the cat cannot be at the bottom in order to trigger the sequence.

[MusicallyInspired]

The cat can't be at the bottom of the stairs to the tower. But even if he's not there after going back and forth a hundred times, it's still logically impossible for the cat to appear in an area you just were. You have to exit the bottom of the stairs screen...go all the way downstairs or into your bedroom and then back. If the cat is not there, head to the tower and he'll be there and the sequence will trigger.

[Enchantermon]

I see...okay, I'm going to test this.

[Solarkid]

No... i'm saying the cat is IN the tower, the room with the telescope, the cat is in it. and yet no sequence triggers

[Enchantermon]

Then you have to try again. I, too, occasionally saw the cat appear in the tower before the sequence triggered.

Hmm. Even with going down the stairs to the foyer of the house and going back up to the observation room didn't help; it still took ten minutes for the trigger (this time, it was just before Manannan woke; the timer was already red). So it's not as if it doesn't work, it just seems to take forever.
Also, even just going up and down the observatory stairs can result in the cat magically teleporting into and out of the observatory (without the scene playing, of course), so there is a little break in the logic there.

EDIT: Okay, this is weird. The chance that the scene will be triggered seems to increase drastically if the trapdoor is shut, the wand is in the cabinet, and all of my possessions are under the bed. It doesn't make any sense, but I've tested this several times now, and it always turns out this way; the scene never plays unless these three conditions are met. Bizarre.

[Erpy]

There's a little bug regarding this one. If you're interested in the technicalities here goes:

The cat randomly switches rooms whenever you change rooms. (sometimes he hangs around, sometimes he moves rooms) Like MI said, the cat's scripted to never switch rooms together with you...in other words, if you're both in the entry hall and you walk into the dining room, the cat'll never be moved to the dining room because it would appear he teleported there.

The same thing is true for the tower...if you're in the upstairs hallway and the cat is there and you visit the telescope tower, the cat event there is blocked. That's the only time it'll be blocked, or at least that was the idea. Unfortunately, a glitch snuck through where the cat's room-check is done AFTER you've switched screens and not before. So...

- Cat's in the upstairs hallway together with you...you go to the tower, cat doesn't change rooms: event is blocked because cat is in the upstairs hallway.

- Cat's in the master bedroom...you go to the tower, cat is moved to the upstairs hallway: event is blocked because cat is in the upstairs hallway. This wasn't meant to happen and lowers the probability of the event somewhat. Since the cat can only move to adjecent rooms, entering and exitting the tower may cause the cat to move between the master bedroom and hallway or tower and hallway. Best thing to do...go on with the game and come back later. If the cat's moving around the lower floor of the house, this glitch is very unlikely to take place.

I do apologize for this glitch...it'll be fixed in the next version. Ironically, one of the people who got a review copy early bumped into it (and was really unlucky) and he suspected it was a glitch, but instead of reporting it to us so we could look into it and fix it, he "saved it for the public" and spent nearly 50% of his article complaining about how the game was ruined for him. That was a shame.

[Enchantermon]

Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up Erpy. I started getting the feeling that it was a glitch too, because the probability was just horrible. It's strange that doing seemingly unrelated things seemed to fix it, but I guess that's just coincidence. Well, at least you know it's there.

Ironically, one of the people who got a review copy early bumped into it (and was really unlucky) and he suspected it was a glitch, but instead of reporting it to us so we could look into it and fix it, he "saved it for the public" and spent nearly 50% of his article complaining about how the game was ruined for him. That was a shame.

Wow... *shakes head*

[Chyron_8472]

Funny. I restarted the game after realizing that I needed the meat for the eagle but had fed it to Manannan, so have had to get the fly twice.

In both games, I got the cat sequence first shot out of the box.

[The Jack of Hearts]

Ok, so I need the fly wings too, but I have no idea if I'm even in the right room. Is it the top of the tower with the telescope, or the entry room next to the kitchen? Does the cat have to be in the room not?

Edit: Ok, that was weird timing, got them 5 minutes after I posted this. Seems like an odd choice of mechanic to get a crucial item. I would never have gotten them without having looked it up first.

[Erpy]

The mechanic itself was meant to ensure you'd get it, like, 80% of the time on your first time entering. If only not for that little quirk in the code.

[DrJones]

I always found it funny that you are required to keep the house clean, but picking the dead fly in front of Manannan resulted in your death.

I think having forbidden items might prevent the scene from happening if the wizard is awake in the house, but don't take my word on this one.

[Erpy]

Yeah, but it could be argued that you're expected to throw that kind of stuff away instead of hoarding it.

And no, forbidden items don't make a difference. Only the fact that the cat's current room is the upstairs hallway the moment the tower room fades in is what matters.

[Solarkid]

I think there may be more to it than that Erpy.

I personally have had no problem with getting the cat to appear in the tower, like i saw it appear there about 40 times before finally the sequence spawned.

What i can say is that as with Enchantermon's experience, the script triggered the moment i hid my items and mananan woke. Originally i thought it was because he woke but maybe it has something to do with the items aswell/instead?

[ATMachine]

I saw the cat in the tower the first time I went up there, but I did it very early on when Mannanan was still around; he was in the tower himself, in fact.

[JohnWWells]

To offset the negative response bias, I was able to get the fly wings with no difficulty whatsoever.

[Erpy]

I took a closer look at the code and it seems there was another bit in there that decreased the odds that had to do with the criteria that would usually make Manannan zap you. This bit was supposed to only block the event if Manannan was in the tower too (so if you entered the tower with M being there and you left, like, the trapdoor open and the threatening music would start playing, the game wouldn't first wait for the cat event to take place...it'd block the cat event and go straight to the zap-of-death event), but it also triggered when the wizard wasn't there. So umm...looks like this one's more serious than I thought. I'll get it fixed.