"Feed me Seymour!"

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Orion · #1 Post by **Orion** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:49 pm

Since I'm acting in my schools version of "Little Shop of Horrors" this weekend, I found it kind of Ironic that you had an Easter Egg about the play/movie. It kinda irked me that you mispelled his name as Seymore tho! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> BTW, I'm playing Mr. Mushnik in the play... I sing, I dance... I do the Tango!... Anywho... Thanks for the little laugh!

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #2 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:02 am

I thought that "Seymore" was a misspelling as well, but it turns out that, depending where you look, both spellings (Seymour & Seymore) are correct. I've read different reviews for both the movie and the musical and I've seen it spelled both ways on more than one occasion so I don't really think it's an error. BTW have fun getting eaten by a giant plant! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> ~Wolfgang

Orion · #3 Post by **Orion** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:04 am

Actually, the reviews are worthless <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> In the script it's spelled Seymour.

Haley · #4 Post by **Haley** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:48 am

Where is the easter egg.

anathoth8 · #5 Post by **anathoth8** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:04 am

It is one of the myriad of library books available in the library. Just explore the bookshelves over and over. You will find one that is something along the lines of "Care and feeding for a giant man-eating plant" by Seymore Krelbourne. (that was his last name, wasn't it) <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1679471.jpg" style="border:0;"/> "May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce."

The Knight · #6 Post by **The Knight** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:18 am

I think so. Not sure about the last name. But it sounds about right. The Knight <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1799499.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Orion · #7 Post by **Orion** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:34 am

Oye... It's close, if your Australian, or British at least <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> The correct spelling (and I have my script RIGHT here) is Seymour Krelborn Sorry to be a little <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"> about the spelling part, but I just wanted to mention it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> <hr /><div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://pub6.picturehost.co.uk/aragorn_sig2.JPG" style="border:0;"/></div>

anathoth8 · #8 Post by **anathoth8** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:41 am

Not a problem. I'm kind of happy to see that I remembered his last name correctly, even if I didn't spell it right. This is kind of a topic change, but on the show "Malcolm in the Middle", the clique at school that he is part of is called the Krelborns. Is this where that came from? Seymour is kind of a nerd and Malcolm and his friends are all nerds, so... <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1679471.jpg" style="border:0;"/> "May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce."

Orion · #9 Post by **Orion** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:46 am

*thinks about the possiblity* Only seen a few episodes... *I want to see their Audrey II when it's "All Growed Up" <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... orion>King Orion</A> at: 4/23/03 12:04:29 am

Haley · #10 Post by **Haley** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:09 am

It's called the Krelboynes not the Krelborns.

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #11 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:13 am

Looking around, I've seen it Krelborn, Krelbourn, Krelborne, Krelbourne, and even another odd spelling (I forget what it was exactly...Krelboine or something odd like that). Plus, you should take into account multicultural and multilingual ambiguities when discussing literature. One could argue that unless it's written in Cyrillic, then all the names in Tolstoy's War and Peace are spelled incorrectly. Take, for example, any Russian name ending in "ov", which can also be spelled "off". Or also Japanese names that can either have an "l" or an "r" depending on how the translator wishes to bring them across. I don't think that Little Shop of Horrors was transliterated from any language using a non-western alphabet, but nonetheless discrepancies can still occur. I guess you'd have to ask the original creator to be 100% sure which way is correct. *shrugs* ~Wolfgang Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... s>Wolfgang Abenteuer</A> at: 4/23/03 12:14:42 am

Orion · #12 Post by **Orion** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:44 am

Well, I have the OLD 1960's video of Little Shop of Horrors (the one the musical was molded after) It's not the popular one now -and I'm not sure how "Seymour" is spelled, but the name is "Krelboine" and I'm not sure on that spelling either. I'd have to check the case for that, and I'm too lazy right now <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> But the character 'evolved' from Krelboine in the original to Krelborn in the Musical <hr /><div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://community.vugames.com/WebX31@@3e9d9@104" style="border:0;"/></div>

Pidgeot · #13 Post by **Pidgeot** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:10 am

I have to disagree with you on the Cyrillic note. Cyrillic letters each have their counterparts in the Roman alphabet. The only place where doubt could be caused is when the Cyrillic soft sign or hard sign (both resembling a small B) is used, as that's pretty much the same as accents, soft sign being a ' and hard sign being a - (according to Encarta). If neither of these are used, you can make a perfect conversion from Cyrillic to Roman. And if you don't mind actually writing those two characters, you can make it in any case. Pidgeot ----- Every error you find is the last one.

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #14 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:26 am

Well, the current Cyrillic alphabet has fewer characters than the alphabet used before 1918. As it stands now, the Russian Cyrillic alphabet has 33 characters (31 voiced and two signs, the soft and hard signs, like you said) whereas the Roman alphabet has but 26. Thus, diphthongs and consonant clusters must be used in the stead of some of the characters that have multi-syllable or compound sounds that cannot be expressed in a single Roman alphabet character, and that's where the ambiguities arise. That, and the way that Russian (since we're sticking with that language in this case) sounds are formed and the different sounds that vowel and consonant clusters make would be different than the sound that the directly-converted letters would make in their Roman equivalents when used as an English word or phrase. Russian has pronounciation and liason rules that do not exist in English and, therefore, it's not always possible to make an exact transliteration down to the very letter. ~Wolfgang

Vildern · #15 Post by **Vildern** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:01 am

I disagree here, Wolfgang. <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #16 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:34 am

Ok...with what part exactly? ~Wolfgang

Vildern · #17 Post by **Vildern** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:44 am

I'm sorry, but my English boundaries don' t allow me to express myself in that sort of issue (this is no excuse, but the truth). So, you'll have to believe me that I'm right. <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #18 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:39 am

I'm afraid I cannot do that. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Actually, it's funny you should mention these 'boundaries' of the English language you have, since those only further illustrate my point that inconsistancies in the pronounciation of the English language are what give rise to these ambiguities in transliteration. I'm not saying there are words that cannot be transliterated from one language to the next, because that's not true. Anything can be spelled phonetically. All I'm saying is that there would be more than one correct way to transliterate some words or names, depending on who does so, what accent that person has, even from which part of the given culture the original speaker comes. Take my earlier example. The Russian off/ov problem. You know the name Sergei Rachmaninoff, don't you? A (brilliant) ninteenth and twentieth century composer and pianist? Well, I know full well how his name is spelled using the Russian Cyrillic alphabet. But, once it crosses over to English, it can be "-off" or "-ov" depending on who transliterates it. Thus, a phonetic ambiguity. Another example which would work well is the spelling of some of the names in the news. You said you speak Arabic (at least some), right Vildern? Remember how you say it's spelled "Usama bin Laden" in your country? Well, here (USA) it's commonly spelled "Osama bin Laden". How about one of Saddam Hussein's sons? Sometimes it's spelled Uday, sometimes Oday, I've even seen it spelled Odai, depending on the source. The are all phonetically the same in English and would be said exactly the same, so it wouldn't matter how it's spelled, it would produce the same vocal result. Thus, in the absence of a set rule, spelling discrepancies arise. That, and the fact that the sounds required to make those names contain sounds that aren't present in the English language, so improvisation must occur. That's all I'm trying to say. Was there something else that you disagreed with or was that it? ~Wolfgang Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... s>Wolfgang Abenteuer</A> at: 4/24/03 5:46:56 am

Vildern · #19 Post by **Vildern** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:24 am

Wolfgang: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>inconsistancies in the pronounciation <hr></blockquote> And: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>ambiguities<hr></blockquote> Are you trying to get me mad? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"> ... Using these words right after I speak about my English boundaries. Please explain them to me. And, I understand your point. But still, I have things in my mind that I'd like to add, but I can't. One reason is because I would probably need to use one of the words you stated above, and I really don't know what do they mean. You gave a good example there, about 'off' - 'ov' (And of course I know who Rachmaninoff was...). I think that a more common example for you would be English-American names, and not Russians. A huge percentage of the names used today in native English speaking countries are from the bible - Hebrew names (John, Jonathan, Johnny, Mike, James, Michael, David, Adam, Jessie, Joe, Dan, Dave, Karen, Shelly, Michel, Jack, Ron, Aaron, Tom... need I to continue? ...maybe some of the names have English origins, but most of them are from the bible) . And they were translated to English very strangely. For example: Every Hebrew sound of 'Yi' was translated to 'Je'. Like the name: Yishay/Yishy (father of David), was translated to: Jessie (a very popular American name). And I really don't know why 'Yi' was translated to 'Je'... maybe the same reason why 'ov' is 'off'/'on'... Here is a funny Example: The name Isabel. Now, I'm not sure it was taken from the bible, but I think so. Cause in the bible there is a woman called: Izevel (like Isabel). Do you know what does it mean? Translation: 'She is trash' <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> So, this pretty name, has a horrible origin. Then again, I'm not sure Isabel is from the bible. <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... Vildern</A> at: 4/24/03 1:56:24 pm

anathoth8 · #20 Post by **anathoth8** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>inconsistancies<hr></blockquote>Ususally refers to something that is not done the same way everytime, as in the '-off'/'-ov' argument. It is not always done one way or the other. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>pronounciation<hr></blockquote>The way a word is said. In other words, the actual sound of the word, with proper vowel sounds and such. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>ambiguities<hr></blockquote>Questionable. There is not one set way in which to accomplish the task. The rules are not clearly defined and so questions arise. <img src="http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1679471.jpg" style="border:0;"/> "May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce."

Vildern · #21 Post by **Vildern** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:06 pm

Thanks, Anathoth <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> So, I do know what Pronounciation means... I just couldn't read it before because it has sooooooooooooo many letters, so I thought I don't know the word. <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

#22 Post by **navynuke04** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:32 pm

Here's a really good online dictionary you might find helpful. I've used it to prove my point on several occasions! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> <a href="http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ...   <hr /> "Without the fleet, the contest would be on our home grounds, and war is one contest in which it is best to be on the visiting team." -ADM Nimitz  <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/sub.gif" style="border:0;"/>

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #23 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:53 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Vildern: And, I understand your point.<hr></blockquote> Whew! I'm glad I was able to make my point! For a moment there I was even confusing myself! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> My guess on the Hebrew Je/Yi issue you mentioned may be due to the fact that there would have been no "clean" way to bring the sound over from Hebrew using the Roman alphabet. That's just a guess, though, since I don't speak any Hebrew! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> I know the Russian -off/-ov example comes from the way the ends of those names are said. Normally, given the two characters at the end of those names (I really wish EZBoards could handle Cyrillic fonts at the moment), the names would be pronounced neither "ov" or "off" but likely a mix between the two..."ovff" I guess. I remember you saying you studied Russian for a time so you know what I mean...that there isn't any way to "cleanly" bring across the pronounciation, so some write it "ov" while others write it "off". *shrugs* That, and the fact that English is so messed up in its own pronounciation already that trying to bring another alphabet over (one that already is phonetically stable) only compounds the problem! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> Consider the words "cough" and "plough". The "ough" can sound like either "off" or "ow". If that isn't enough to confuse someone I don't know what is! I really admire people like you (Vildern) and Erpy and anyone else that is forced to learn English as a second language since many of its phonetic rules are so inconsistant. British English accents sound much different than any American English accent. Combine that with the different accents that American English has in itself. Someone from Louisiana (where there is Acadian French mixed in), the East Coast (where there is some Italian accent), Northern (like Fargo, ND), and southern Texas (half of the time even I don't even understand what they're saying), and then also take into account the mix of cultures within the USA and its a wonder we have any language at all! No wonder everyone says English is such a hard language to learn! I vote we just say screw it and all learn German. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> ~Wolfgang

Vildern · #24 Post by **Vildern** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 pm

Wolfgang: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I vote we just say screw it and all learn German. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> <hr></blockquote> It's funny, you prefer German, and many Germans prefer English. Everybody thinks that the other language is better. That is because you don't know it good enough in order to get confused with its rules. I remember when I was studying French in school. I have to say, that as far as rules go - French is easier than English. But, they have more tenses! Much more, I can't remember how much. English has 13 (the regular 12 + the command tense: Pick that! / Get that!). Every language has its own problems. Hebrew, for example. We have only 4 tenses (future, present, past + the command tense, which is way more developed than it is in English). But, punctuation in Hebrew is probably one of the hardest in the world. For example, 'T' in hebrew can be sounded as: 'Te' and 'Ta' and 'Ti' and 'Tu' and 'To' and just 'T'. It depends on how you punctuate it. Let's take Arabic for example. They have 2 tenses (IIRC, the past and future are alike). But, don't think that it is any easier for them. <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/vildern.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/broyalquestfor ... Vildern</A> at: 4/24/03 3:13:20 pm

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #25 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:44 pm

I just said German to be facetious! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> From what I hear (and AGD1 could probably confirm this), Swahili is supposed to be one of the easiest languages to learn. Never studied it myself, but I remember reading that. Yeah, each language has its intricacies to be sure, but usually ones that are more difficult for an outsider to learn are those that have more pronounciation loopholes (like the cough/plough example I have earlier). In many languages, you can look at a word and, not knowing what it means or having never seen it before, can work out a correct pronounciation. English doesn't always work that way. There are instances (like I mentioned above) that differ from word to word and you would need to memorise how to say each word correctly rather than simply being able to read the letters and sound them out. German (as an example) is more phonetically sound than English, since a vowel or consonant and/or their respective diphthongs and clusters are pronounced the same way almost every time. Therefore, one only needs learn proper German pronounciation to be able to read aloud something in German. That doesn't mean the entire language is easier to learn, I'm just talking about pronounciation here. French is more difficult, phonetically anyway, than German IMO. Note that at the end of a word, Ã©, ai, ait, ais, et, es, er,  and aient are all pronounced the same. Then, there are liason and spelling rules between words that need to be learned. There are more examples as well, but those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. And, I've heard spoken Hebrew and it does sound like quite a difficult language to speak. Again, I don't speak it, but some of the sounds made when saying the words don't exist in any English word. The only example I can think of is chutzpah (that's Hebrew, isn't it? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> ), where the "ch" is pronounced unlike any other word in English. Normally, "ch" is pronounced like the word "chosen" or "match", but in this case, since there is no phonetic equivalent to that sound in English, we use "ch", only say it much differently than any English word that uses it the same consonant cluster. ~Wolfgang

"Feed me Seymour!"

"Feed me Seymour!"

Actually...

Reviews...

Little shop of horrors played at my school too!

Re: Little shop of horrors played at my school too!

I think so..................................................

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NAP

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Mr. Mushnik's employee...

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Hmmm...

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???

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Hmmm...

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Re: Whew...!

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Hehe...