KQ2VGA 3.0

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kq4evr · #1 Post by **kq4evr** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:39 pm

Maybe I'm looking too far ahead, but I'd like to know you're planning to make a third version out of KQ2VGA. Version 2.0 was perfect (at least, I didn't have any problems) and I'm really curious what could be bettered! And could, also, help translating the game into Dutch (so Erpy has not that much work)!

#2 Post by **Erpy** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:04 pm

No, version 2.0 was the final version. There will be no further changes to KQ2. (no translation support) I personally wouldn't start a KQ2-translation even if I did have time. If I'd translate it, people would judge the game on my writing skill (because that's what they'd see), rather than Wookie's. I'd rather not have that. My writing skill is vastly inferior to Wookie's. <img src="http://httpd.chello.nl/c.vanempel/Nashw ...

Haley · #3 Post by **Haley** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:29 am

If I could make a game, there would be no flaws at all. It would be perfect. Not that there's anything wrong with KQ2VGA2.0

TakariFreak · #4 Post by **TakariFreak** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:55 am

It's impossible to make a game 100% bug free. With each bug you fix, you are in turn putting even MORE bugs in, which could be worse than the ones you initially fixed. <div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://www.dark-stars.net/Image1.gif" style="border:0;"/></div>

MuzlakOofmay · #5 Post by **MuzlakOofmay** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:35 am

Yeah. That's a huge misconception. There is no such thing as no bugs. --------- <img src="http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/bryce/sign.gif" style="border:0;"/> "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" ---------- <a href="http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/spongefactory/" target="top">Sponge Factory</a>

Relight · #6 Post by **Relight** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:39 am

I strongly disagree. A 100% bug-free game is possible. By the way I don't consider technical problems (like OS / graphics card incompatability problems) to be bugs. Bugs means programming.

MuzlakOofmay · #7 Post by **MuzlakOofmay** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:29 pm

Let's say you were making a game using AGS. AGS was programmed by Chris Jones, so you would have to assume that Chris Jones made NO mistakes in his programming (which, IMO, is impossible). Then, Chris Jones used an API called Allegro, AFAIK. We'll assume that the people who have been programming Allegro made no errors. And then Allegro is based on DirectX. Assuming that none of the developers of DirectX made programming errors, and you are a perfect programmer, who doesn't overlook anything, then YES, it's possible. But none of those people that made those programs are perfect programmers. Whether it's a simple variable mixup, or something done in a messy fashion, you just CANNOT say that it's possible to write a bug free game. It's impossible. --------- <img src="http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/bryce/sign.gif" style="border:0;"/> "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" ---------- <a href="http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/spongefactory/" target="top">Sponge Factory</a>

TakariFreak · #8 Post by **TakariFreak** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:29 pm

Well, theorectically, it's possible, but it takes a LOT of work, and often more trouble than it's actually worth. The more complex the program, the harder it is to get rid of bugs. I DO belive it's possible to make a bug free program if that program is very simple (such as one that you type in something, and the computer shows what you typed), but it's the complex games that are EXTREMELY difficult to make bug-free, if it can ever happen. <div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://www.dark-stars.net/Image1.gif" style="border:0;"/></div>

adeyke · #9 Post by **adeyke** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:33 pm

I'd agree about the impossibility of bug-freeness. A Hello World program could be bug-free, but the more complex it is, the harder it is to account for everything. If you try to make sure every possible input is handled gracefully, you'd go crazy from all the error-handling. I imagine even a program where you entered a string and it printed that string might be breakable if you enter too long a string, for example.

#10 Post by **Erpy** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:54 pm

Writing a program that's both fairly big and flawless is only possible in theory, but reality is different. Just compare it to writing a very large document in notepad. Then check it later for spelling/grammar errors. Even with a degree in english, it's tough. And documents aren't nearly as complex as computer code. <img src="http://httpd.chello.nl/c.vanempel/Nashs ...

Relight · #11 Post by **Relight** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:11 pm

I'm a perfectionist. I still insist it's possible.

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #12 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:01 am

Possible, yes. Of course it's possible. I agree with Relight on this. That isn't to say it's likely or even commonplace (because it's not...for several factors like Muzlak mentioned), but it is possible to make bug-free programs. Do people do it? Seldom. Do bugs get overlooked, even by big software companies? Of course. That just makes it improbable, but not impossible. ~Wolfgang

Haley · #13 Post by **Haley** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:10 am

I'm a perfectionist, too. And who said it's impossible to make a game completely free of bugs, huh?

#14 Post by **Erpy** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:19 am

Being a perfectionist doesn't mean you can't overlook things. In fact, if you develop something, you probably WILL overlook things. Why else are programs beta tested before release? <img src="http://httpd.chello.nl/c.vanempel/Nashs ...

Haley · #15 Post by **Haley** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:32 am

I didn't say anything about not overlooking things.

TakariFreak · #16 Post by **TakariFreak** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:48 am

I certainly DO belive it possible, but the more complex the program, the harder it is to do. Even if there is NO programming errors, someone somewhere will find a way to crash the program. My dads job is to check software for bugs, and try to think of potential ways people could cause bugs in a seemingly flawless part of the program for medical products (such as ultrasound machines and difribulators). The purposly keep a few small bugs in, since if they fix them, they are theorectically putting more bugs back in, which could be more fatal. It's too impractical to look for EVERY sigle bug in a program. Companies DO have dealines, you know. I don't think I've EVER seen a program 100% error free. If it's possible, when why hasn't anyone created one? Not ALL programs are made by companies with deadlines. <div style="text-align:center"><img src="http://www.dark-stars.net/Image1.gif" style="border:0;"/></div>

MuzlakOofmay · #17 Post by **MuzlakOofmay** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:57 am

Even Hello World applications have bugs in them. As simple as it is, it's still running on top of Windows. How many times have we had bugs reported in the Technical Forums that the AGDS had to respond with, "wait till the next version, when we use a newer AGS?" Tons of times. It's the same idea with Windows. Why do you think they have so many updates? So even if YOU don't overlook anything, there's still problems. --------- <img src="http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/bryce/sign.gif" style="border:0;"/> "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" ---------- <a href="http://www.nancycarterdesign.com/spongefactory/" target="top">Sponge Factory</a>

#18 Post by **navynuke04** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:03 am

Have you ever noticed that when you are walking north along the beach, if you exit the scene on dry land, but appear in the next scene in the water, Graham will walk on top of the water until he's done entering the scene? Also, the tree at the very north beach scene... try walking back and forth behind it a few times... there's a walk-behind error there.... Bugs still exist in KQ2VGA. They are small and hardly noticable. I don't think the AGD's should take time to fix them. Not when I'm eagerly anticipating their next release!  <hr /> "Without the fleet, the contest would be on our home grounds, and war is one contest in which it is best to be on the visiting team." -ADM Nimitz  <img src="http://navynuke.netfirms.com/ezboard/sub.gif" style="border:0;"/>

Relight · #19 Post by **Relight** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:32 am

I've released 4, albeit all pretty small, AGS games. 2 were very small, 2 were a medium. None of them had a single bug (at least none that I could find, or that anyone else brought to my attention). None of them were beta tested (to my recollection). As a perfectionist, I test every thing as the game (or whatever project) is being developed. I code meticulously. I visualize how everything works and connects and nothing goes on behind my back. Thus, bug-free. Doing this on a larger scale I would apply the same philosophy. The size is irrelevant (insert Yoda-phrase here).

thezeal · #20 Post by **thezeal** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:17 pm

Well, I just read the first posts of this thread ... I'm a young 19 years boy and besides Lemmings and Packman, Kingsquest IV was my first real computer game, I've played. I _guess_ it was the 4th part, but in every way, it's not released by your very nice company since now. It was about an dark sorcerer, who deleted Graham's castle and familiy. Graham should find help in the desert, in the mountains and in a closely town. Thanks for spending your time - zeal

Wolfgang Abenteuer · #21 Post by **Wolfgang Abenteuer** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:32 pm

That was KQV. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> ~Wolfgang

KQ2VGA 3.0

KQ2VGA 3.0

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No sequel KingsQuest?

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