Some bugs...

Message

adeyke · #1 Post by **adeyke** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:01 am

The graphics and such are great, but there are a few problems that I noticed. I'll likely find more if I play again. And yes, I am very picky. But beta-testers are supposed to be that <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> . Also note that some of these may be restrictions of the engine itself, so perhaps not everything is fixable (unless AGS is then fixed <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> )... It's really hard to find where to click the tree stump to find the pouch. If I didn't know it was there already, I wouldn't have found it. The message about the stump's dampness also has a lower-case letter at the beginning. It would also be more user-friendly if, in order to open the goat's gate, you could click on that whole rectangle instead of just the actual gate part of it. It was also rather hard to manipulate the rope and bucket in the well (the clickable area's too small, I guess). It would be neat if you could access the intro from within the game, so you don't have to quit and restart if you accidentally missed it. Perhaps make the restart button go back to the very beginning... Not only is the castle bridge missing its reflection, but Graham loses his when he goes there. It's not very intuitive where you have to stand to get picked up by the Condor. Having the red hotspot dot on item cursors as well would really help... It's odd that the talk cursor's hotspot isn't actually part of the cursor. I really miss the sierra middle-click-changes-to-walk feature... Escape also doesn't bring the menu here. It's also a bit annoying that, when you die (by falling off the giant beanstalk, for example), you have to wait until the death message appears before restoring. Having keyboard support there (with enter and tab) like in the SCI version would also be good. This also applies to the starting menu. Or at least make it so tab doesn't attempt an inventory screen there. The Giant Redwood message is used on both the trees in that joke (the big one should be the Dwarf Maple). The butterflies in the clover and flower patches are really blocky. F9 should restart, and there should be a confirm dialog box (like when quitting). In this version, you can't be crushed by moving the dagger rock from the wrong side... Graham's arms seem too light-colored when he's climbing. If you attempt to open the cave door after you have the treasures, the message is missing some punctuation. Some of the jokes (i.e. counting fingers after the rat, attempting to lockpick cave door) seem to be gone, but I guess that's the problem with the mouse interface... It would also be nice if you could click the eye on multiple inventory items without having to reselect it. Maybe add a hand icon to the inventory, like in QfG, which does the same thing as clicking it on yourself. That'd be a lot more intuitive for the walnut and the pouch... The quit dialog would possibly be better if you immediately had the buttons, Graham and the text and if Graham just closed his mouth when he's done speaking. I know this won't happen, but I think adding keyboard support like in the sierra games would be really great... The little bubbling spring at that one lake really looks unconvincing. The lake is too still... The shadow on the carrot doesn't look good, especially when no other items have shadow. The ring also looks odd the way it's shaded. The lack of gemstone is also strange. The dark handle of the dagger doesn't look very good on that black inventory screen and it doesn't match the previous games' daggers. The egg and walnut look a bit too similar to each other and aren't shiny enough for gold. I'd prefer if the shield and chest looked more like the originals, but that's just an opinion... I don't much like the busy crown icon, but that's also just opinion. The menu bar, control panel, text messages and save/load dialogs all look quite different. It would be better if they fit together more. While some scenes (like the giant area) are astoundingly beautiful, others (like the scene with the gingerbread house and the one with the wild flowers) just aren't that good. No offense. Some conversation messages (like with the troll) can be clicked away, while others (like with the witch) only go with the keyboard (or when you wait). How exactly can Graham make stew when he hasn't looked at the bowl yet? Anyways, these are just my first thoughts. I'm sure I've forgotten quite a few things. I hope at least some of these will get fixed, though <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> ... -- <img src="http://world.care2.com/adeyke/files/tag ...

adeyke · #2 Post by **adeyke** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:10 am

It's not in the game, but in the installer. It adds a shortcut to the uninstaller in the Start menu, but not to the game itself <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> . So that should be fixed as well. Making the whole Start menu shortcut bit a (default-on) option would also be good...

#3 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 7:19 am

Most of the technical things on that list are due to AGS limitations, otherwise they'd already be fixed. A few are also attempts to make puzzles a little easier or harder than they were in the original KQ game. But overall, some valid suggestions you have there. We'll see what we can do.

#4 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 7:23 am

By the way.. which gingerbread house screen were you referring to? the indoor or outdoor one?

adeyke · #5 Post by **adeyke** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 7:39 am

I know you can't fix everything. But, IMHO, it's better to report what can't be fixed than to neglect to report what can <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> . I'm very much looking forward to the next version (and the voice pack!).

dreammaster · #6 Post by **dreammaster** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:18 am

Both of these are proably nitpicking, but I thought I'd mention them anyway: - When you're in the screen with the hole to Leprechaun land, no matter how close you are to the hole, it always says you need to get closer to it when you click the hand icon on it. - When you swim underwater in the well area, you come up into the dragon's area with your bucket empty. Is this intended? I'm pretty certain that in the original King's Quest you came out with the bucket full of water.

#7 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 12:23 pm

"You need to be closer" was done to try and encourage the player to walk closer and make them fall into the hole. The same thing happens in the SCI version if you type "look in hole" You have to fill the bucket manually in both the AGI and SCI versions of KQ1.

#8 Post by **Milan Easton** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:33 pm

These are some really good suggestions, adeyke. Thanks for taking the time to note all of them down. The only one I don't really agree with is the comment about the gingerbread background and flower background. I didn't make either of those backgrounds, yet they're two of my favorites in the game. I think it's just a matter of opinion, and changing those might make one person happy, but upset somebody else. Perhaps if everyone has the same complaints, it would be different. The other suggestions seem very reasonable though, and we'll look into updating these things in the next versions of the game. Thanks! Anonymous Game Developer #1

adeyke · #9 Post by **adeyke** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 10:14 pm

I played the game again just now, this time with full points. It's great <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> . Some more trivial, unfixable and/or intentional (<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> ) problems I noticed: The problem with getting the pouch is that you have to click the eye on the stump opening first. It would be more consistent and intuitive if simply clicking the hand there worked. If you've already dealt with the dragon, you should be able to get the mirror without having to walk there first. If possible, manipulating items (opening the walnut/pouch or filling/emptying the bowl) should automatically make the 'new' item the active one. Some actions, especially those dealing with inventory manipulation, don't make the point sound even though they give points. Sometimes the animation doesn't seem to fit quite right. When pushing in the witch, it doesn't look like Graham actually touches her. I might be mistaken, though... When getting the egg, however, it really doesn't look right. Though I was robbed by the dwarf in the forest, I didn't actually lose anything. I was carrying the diamonds, the egg, the walnut and two of the three treasures (no shield)... The text on buttons in the quit/death dialogs seems a bit too smooth/blurry... When Graham's captured by the witch in the forest and dropped into her house, he lands somewhat awkwardly. It somehow doesn't look like he'd actually fit in his cell in that position. When flying, it looks like Graham's not quite in sync with with the witch or condor, giving a bit of a jerky feel to the animation... The Quest for the Crown text in the starting menu is, in some places, a bit too dark. In the starting disclaimer, the "King's Quest1:Quest for the crown" should be "King's Quest 1: Quest for the Crown". The edges of the goat look too black, as if it was made on a black background and blurred... BTW, about the scenes I didn't like so much... It's probably just because the other scenes are so fantastically done. The gingerbread house looks almost identical to the SCI version; it's just a bit more textured. And the gingerbread people are a bit too blurry; you can't really see the faces. And the colored spots on the ground, as well as the flowers in the other scene, look 'dirty' somehow. Let's just say I like most of the other scenes even more <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> . It's simply amazing how beautiful they are, especially when compared to the AGI ones (though those also look good) <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> .

#10 Post by **Milan Easton** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:17 pm

Ok, thanks for the more elaborate description on the backgrounds<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> We'll see what we can do about fixing these problems up in later versions! Anonymous Game Developer #1

#11 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 11:44 am

Ok, I've totally remade the gingerbread house for the next version! So keep your eyes peeled for that. Now, what part of the flowers screen looked strange to you? was it the mulit-colored bed of flowers? Most of the suggestions you made in this second round are easily fixable though. And you're right about reporting any bugs you find, even if they seem minor. We want to try and get most bugs fixed so that none (or at least a minimal amount) will appear in the next version.

adeyke · #12 Post by **adeyke** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 6:35 pm

The problem is the flowers themselves. They don't really look like flowers. This is especially true of the multi-colored flower patch. They have abnormal shapes and are apparently anti-aliased with the grass. This makes them look more like just splotches of color. The scene would look better if these were made to look more real. A few more trivial problems I noticed... The water of the moat looks too blue, I think. If it was more cyan, it would look more like water. I don't know how well this would work in this specific scene, but the water originally just struck me as odd. There's also a blue lake one screen west of the cave door. I think the other lakes look better... Where the raging river empties into the lake, the lake undulates. This effect looks rather strange, especially since the same lake, one screen to the east, is completely still... That river and lake screen is also a bit buggy. If you come there from the north, you can get stuck behind a tree. Trying to walk to the middle of the screen will usually move you back to the north instead. In addition, if you're behind the leftmost tree, you can see Graham's hat through it...

sweetP · #13 Post by **sweetP** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 2:13 am

when you try to pick up a second walnut, the word "realize" is spelled like "realise" in the message that pops up.

adeyke · #14 Post by **adeyke** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:28 am

Just don't think that my finding a lot of bugs means the game waas highly flawed. I could probably find bugs in anything <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> ... Sometimes the "Nothing happens." message has both words capitalized. The same holds true for the "Move closer." message when you try to get the egg from far away. I just realized that, in addition to not being on part of the actual cursor, the red dot on the talk cursor seems to be one pixel to the right of the actual hotspot... When attempting to talk to the dwarf, "breath" is misspelled as "breathe". On the rear end of the woodcutter's hovel, at the top of the screen, there's a tree. It  looks like it's in the background, such that you could click there to get to the next screen, but it's not... When you turn invisible to get past the dragon, and take off the ring when you're next to him, it says the dragon notices you, but you can still safely walk around; you only die if you try to walk back. This seems odd and is different from the SCI version. Also, if you use the ring to get the mirror and then click the a treasure on the dragon, it says the dragon already has one of the best treasures. It should instead use the SCI version's message: "The dragon, unaware that you've stolen his great treasure, is not interested in anything you have to offer." For some reason, the > in the gnome's message for when you guess his name correctly doesn't have a black outline... It would be nice if there was a cancel option of some sort when talking to the gnome, if you don't want to make your guess yet. Maybe the clover patch should look more distinct somehow. I can imagine that someone new to KQ1 wouldn't recognize it as clover... If you get eaten by the wolf, the death message, though a question, ends with a period.

#15 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 3:37 pm

Fixing..fixing... Adeyke, could you elaborate a bit more on what you mean in these ones: On the rear end of the woodcutter's hovel, at the top of the screen, there's a tree. It looks like it's in the background, such that you could click there to get to the next screen, but it's not... Escape also doesn't bring the menu here. Having keyboard support there (with enter and tab) like in the SCI version would also be good. I know this won't happen, but I think adding keyboard support like in the sierra games would be really great... (ie. do you mean for typing comments? or just the arrow keys to move graham around the screen?) Thanks!

adeyke · #16 Post by **adeyke** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 6:52 pm

On the screen with the back of the woodcutter's home, there's a tree at the top of the screen. It's far up, it's dark and it doesn't have specific look/touch messages. All this would imply that it's simply background, like the other trees, to the right. However, if you click the walk icon there, or quite a bit to the right, the tree blocks you. It's easy to learn about this and instead click on the right part of the top, but it still feels as though that tree shouldn't be able to block you. In SCI games, pressing escape has the same effect as moving the mouse to the top of the screen. That's the menu I mean. In addition, the the mouse sits on the button for the currently selected action, and you can use the arrow keys to move it and enter to select. When this is done, you have the new action selected, though the mouse is back where it was before escape was pressed. The arrow keys also work for selecting things in the control panel and the inventory screen. In SCI games, when you die, the restore button is already selected, so you can press enter to immediately go to the restore screen. You can also use tab and/or the arrow keys to select a different button. I think being able to simply press enter is easier than clicking on the restore button. The starting menu also works this way... About the keyboard support... In many SCI games, you can do everything with a keyboard, though it's not always convenient to do so. Using the arrow keys will move the cursor 20 units to that side. Using shift reduces this to one unit for better precision. Pressing keypad 5 is the same as a right-click, cycling through the cursors. Pressing keypad 0 is the same as a middle-clicking, switching to walk and back. Either enter key has the same effect as a normal left-click. If you have the walk cursor selected, however, the arrow keys will instead make the character walk around, like in the text games. Usually, most of these features aren't used if you have a mouse. However, having it more similar to sierra VGA games enhances the general feel of the interface. And, with the many maze-type areas in the game, having both keyboard and mouse support can be beneficial. I don't mean that it should have a parser interface... And some more things I noticed and which I think I haven't said yet: As another part of the keyboard support, some games let you simply use the plus and minus keys to adjust the game speed. This could be useful at times... It's possible to have too many inventory items, such that the inventory window becomes larger than the screen. It just looks really strange when that happens. It seems that if you move the mouse around outside of the inventory window, while it's active, it will still select items. That is, if you move the mouse to the right of the last item in the first row, the first item in the second row will be selected. Note that clicking there doesn't work; it's just the yellow box that's affected... In the score display of the control panel, the word "of" seems to be placed too high. In addition, if you have over a 100 points, it looks like the black border of the "of" is over the score, so the last line of pixels is black... It seems that the clickable area of the quit button in the quit dialog only covers the top half... I know that many (perhaps all) old sierra games sort the inventory in a certain way (i.e. a certain item will always be first if you have it). This game sorts things in the order they're picked up. I don't know if this is intentional or just the way AGS works, but it's just something I noticed...

#17 Post by **Anonymous Game Creator 2** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 8:14 pm

Most of the technical things that you mentioned, including the stuff about TAB and enter, and navigating around the menus with the keyboard are things that the AGS engine can't currently do (that I know of). You should probably post them on the AGS technical forum as suggestions for future additions to the engine. I'm fixing most of the graphical bugs mentioned here, and also fixing some of the technical ones to! But remember that even Sierra's games more often than not, weren't %100 stable so for authenticity's sake, i might just leave a few bugs in there<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)">

adeyke · #18 Post by **adeyke** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 8:32 pm

Come to think of it, too much authenticity might be a bad thing <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> . I don't know exactly which of the technical things are AGS issues, so I guess I'll wait for the new version and see what's still not fixed in it, before posting them there <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /smile.gif ALT=":)"> .

sweetP · #19 Post by **sweetP** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 6:49 am

when I went to the screen with the elf, he was there, but I touched him and he disappeared and he never came back when I tried to leave and come back many times. Is this on purpose cuz it's kinda inconvenient. Just an opinion!

sweetP · #20 Post by **sweetP** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:02 am

when you click the bowl on graham, even on a screen with no water, stew appears. what did he fill it with?

sweetP · #21 Post by **sweetP** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:44 am

if you go into the woodcutter's house while invisible, the woodcutter has disappeared. He comes back when you leave and come back.

adeyke · #22 Post by **adeyke** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:49 am

Elves just don't like being grabbed. I just tried it and he was back as soon as I returned to that screen. You could still win the game without him, though. The bowl has always been a magic one that fills itself with stew if you say the word "Fill". I haven't done much testing with the ring, so I haven't seen the last one yet. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/uadeyke.showPu ... >adeyke</A> <IMG SRC=http://world.care2.com/adeyke/files/tinyicon2.gif BORDER=0> at: 8/13/01 2:52:21 am

adeyke · #23 Post by **adeyke** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 8:07 am

Now I've seen that invisible woodcutter bug as well. It seems to happen only after you've given the bowl. Then there are two other bugs in that screen. If you give him the empty bowl, it looks like it's full in his hands. There seems to be a line of woodcutter in the wife. That is, if you click anywhere along a vertical line, one pixel wide, on the wife, it has the same effect as clicking on the woodcutter. It's very strange. Also, for the list of technical stuf you probably can't fix, the item icon in the menu bar would look better if it wasn't scaled down... Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub57.ezboard.com/uadeyke.showPu ... >adeyke</A> <IMG SRC=http://world.care2.com/adeyke/files/tinyicon2.gif BORDER=0> at: 8/13/01 3:26:51 am

Maghrabi · #24 Post by **Maghrabi** » Tue Aug 14, 2001 1:42 am

On the bowl thing, I always thought of it as a magic bowl that filled with food whenever you say "Fill" like it's written on it. Thus it really helps the woodcutter since he can just keep filling it and never go hungry.

adeyke · #25 Post by **adeyke** » Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:34 am

That's how I understood it. I've always found it strange, however, that such a bowl is simply given away in exchange for one possible solution to a puzzle. IMHO, it's a much greater treasure than the treasure chest. If there's an unlimited supply of gold, it becomes worthless, but no one'd ever be hungry again with such a bowl...

Some bugs...

Some bugs...

One more thing...

Re: One more thing...

Re: One more thing...

Sounds good.

A few more to add to the list

Re: A few more to add to the list

Re: A few more to add to the list

Good.

Re: Good.

Re: Good.

About that scene...

spell check

And more...

Re: And more...

Okay...

Re: Okay...

LOL

sorry to nitpick...

bowl

ring

I think...

Okay.

The Bowl

Right.