QFGV - Triumph or Flop?

[Cumboy]

Hey all.....great to see the mythology post is digging up some rather interesting stuff.

Just gotta say this but I LOVED QFG V - Dragonfire. I know I am clearly in the minority considering nearly every written word about it. Perhaps I am biased due to my interest in Greek mythology and its rich and absorbing background. This seemed to be an excellent way to end the series. The hero takes several tests to prove that he is more than he could ever dream to be... a ruler. Same as all those he encountered in his previous four adventures. He encounters old friends (and enemies). He masters new weapons and skills (more so than before). He not only seeks to save a kingdom (like before)....but to rule it.

It all seemed to be a very fitting way to end everything and I completed the game with a great deal of satisfaction (god after brunos lies and bullcrap fast dagger pull I waited years to kill him). This seemed to end certainly a great deal better than most sierra series which were left open ended or changed...

I will comment further after you do..oh and Fribbi or whatever your name is, your comments are NOT welcome!

[Rambaldi0503]

I COMPLETELY agree. Best one in the series. Ties everything up nicely and I thought it was fitting that you try to become king but refuse (or at least you SHOULD) as the final heroic thing you do in the game.

[Migs]

It is quite a good game. I think QFG4 raised the bar incredibly high, and because QFG5 has a different gameplay style fans were taken off guard a little. I don't feel the storyline is as deep as the previous games in the series, but it does wrap up nicely, and the soundtrack by Chance Thomas is awesome.

[Swift]

Cumboy, those are some very valid points you've got there, though I'm very sure that PHattiE would disagree with you completely if he ever saw this topic (one only needs to visit h6 forums to know what I mean).

I didn't really like qg5 mainly because the bugs prevented me from finishing the game and marrying Kat. That, and the fact that your character could actually die from running up and down a flight of steps or over a bridge. Other than that, everything else was fine. Yeah, I know that there's a patch available now but I haven't found the time yet. Maybe some day I'll get to playing it again.

[1eyedParrot]

QFGV was good, my only complaint was that it had so much more potential(being the last QFG game) and it wasn't allowed enough time and money to reach that.

[The Knight]

It's a shame they were never able to have the multiplayer function. That would have been awesome.

[Rambaldi0503]

QFGV was good, my only complaint was that it had so much more potential(being the last QFG game) and it wasn't allowed enough time and money to reach that.

What were some of the things they didn't have time to do? Besides multiplayer and adding in Dr. Cranium?

[Erpy]

My favourite QFG is still QFG4, but I certainly don't regret spending the bucks to buy QFG5.

Here's what I liked about the game and didn't like:

- Backgrounds. Yes, I enjoyed looking at them and I thought they were pleasing to the eye.
- Inventory graphics/spell graphics. I generally don't enjoy browsing through inventory windows, but in this case, I'll make an exception. Some winners were the classic "whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, THWACK!" of the blackjack and most of the spell icons.
- Music. Silmarian meanders being number 1 favourite. I loved many of the themes and they set the mood very well.
- Thief additions. Plenty of things for the thief to do, including blackbird quest and chief thief selection. Pickpocketting and blackjacking were some very welcome additions.
- Paladin powers: Face it, his abilities make him almost godlike later on, but it sure as hell is fun.
- Certain spells. Boom and Dragonfire are some pretty cool spells and the way frost bite's effect was modified was also an improvement.
- Returning characters. I enjoy the feeling of deja vu and it was nice to see lots of my favourite characters back.
- Marriage. I thought the idea was cool.
- Being able to refuse or accept the throne. Nice extra.
- The intro. Pretty cool movie, but they could have left Minos out of there.
- Different weapons. The idea that having a sword or dagger actually seemed to make a difference was nice.
- Magic magnets. I used these things A LOT!
- Certain monsters: There was a nice cast of different monsters to fight.
- Tied up some loose ends, like the blackbird and the references from Dr. Cranium to the academy as well as the references of Kreesha to Shakra.
- Mood changing dialogue pics: Nice touch. Too bad they were kinda small though.

Here's what I didn't like:

- Battle system. I won't lie, I thought QFG4's battle system rocked, even though I can imagine people didn't like it very much. A crossbreed with aspects of QFG2's and QFG4's battle system would have been more enjoyable for me than this one. Attacking was tricky if you were surrounded or far away from the foreground, dodging was close to impossible (those enemies could circlestrafe, but you couldn't), keyboard control was awkward and the fact you could use potions whenever you wished took a bit away of the tension I felt when battling Toro or Fred in QFG1.
- The stressed role of the battle system. There was a bit too much emphasis on combat, which combined with the point above, took away from the game a bit.
- Different weapons. Half of the weapons were probably never used, so having them in seemed a bit unnecessary.
- Some of the spells. There weren't really new general-purpose spells in the game. The fact that there were hardly any puzzles involving the use of magic in creative ways disappointed me a bit.
- Walking speed of the hero. Anybody who took the time to WALK from one point of Silmaria to the other? The hero walked kinda slowly, or the time just went by very quickly, but I just ran around during the biggest part of the game.
- Returning characters. Not every character in the game lived up to his or her potential. A pity. I think this is partly due to the internet community pressing the Coles for the return of their favourite characters. Throwing too many flavors in the mix doesn't always taste well afterwards.
- Main villain. Ad Avis, the Dark Master and Khaveen do a better job as villains. I didn't expect the dragon to be destroyed through ordinary combat either.
- Marriage. The idea of romance could have been done better. You don't get too much opportunity to get close to your future spouse. The growing relationship between the hero and his future wife could have been developed better.
- Character models: They were kinda grainy up close.
- Voices: Some were good, some were not. QFG4 outshined it though.
- The ending: A bigger ceremony on the level of the intro movie-wise, would have been nice.


Still, I enjoyed the game.

[Brainiac]

What were some of the things they didn't have time to do? Besides multiplayer and adding in Dr. Cranium?

Punny Bones was suppopsed to be in Silmaria (not already gone as Ann Agrama reveals) and there was supposed to be a game with Erasmus called Wizard's Whirl (perhaps a 3D version of Mage's Maze from QfG1); that would have been the way to acquire Whirlwind.

Personally, I liked 5, mostly because I dearly enjoy Greco-Roman mythology and the musical score was excellent as well. I thought the tying up of the story was good as well. Still, as a whole, it isn't my favorite. I'd say my favorite overall is 2, simply because it had a good story, interesting characters and stability (Trial by Fire is the least buggy game in the series). If bugs and code stability were irrelevant though, I'd have to go with Shadows of Darkness (duh).

[Blackthorne519]

Yeah, I liked 5, despite it's changes in appearance and such. I just loved finishing up what I started in 1989 at 11; I finished it in 2000 at 22. I love QFG..... but what would QFG5 have been like if made like an SCI point and click........hmmmm.......

Bt

[Blummer102]

QFGV was fine, I think a lot of people were just put off from it mainly because of the combat system, which was less than average, some of the bugs (though I only ran into one my entire time playing the game; it crashed my computer) and the fact that the game just took so freakin' LONG to come out. True, the game could've been better considering the amount of time it was worked on, and that may have also alienated some people, but overall, I thought it was a lot of fun and a good way to end the series. I did not mind the combat system; it was inferior to the awesomeness that was QFG4's, but I liked the ability to fight multiple enemies, as well as the environment interaction that the combat system created. The story was cool, the environment was great, and the graphics weren't as grainy as people say, I liked them better than the graphics of KQ8, which Sierra released at the same time. The voices were decent except for a couple; I certainly didn't imagine Elsa sounding that way. The ending wasn't that impressive, unfortunately, which is probably one of the main things that brings this game down. Otherwise, though, a good game that definitely deserves its place in the series.

[Jenkins Loo]

I don't know if I enjoyed the game... When I like a game, I've got more chances to know what I didn't like than for a game with a bad reputation I heard of.

In QFG5, again, like in any Sierra Games, Sounds isn't underestimated. Especially the music, my favorites are when you visit the Famous Adventurer and when you're swimming underwater ( I'm joyful about ANY GAME that allow swimming underwater; but if it is in a submarine, I don't care ).

Then, there are the spells I counldn't prevent myself to write them down, I loved them all.

Nothing to say about the voices ( I have the original ones ), they have a natural personality, but I have seen better about the faces, some of them looks like a little too "3D" for my taste, even Ugarte look like a little too small and different from QFG2 ( But I don't know if they want him look like in QFG5 so, maybe it's ok for me ). But I did like how Ferrari's face is remade, they did well about adding him the rings under his eyes, he really looks like a guy full of money .

About the monsters I think it fits, but I would have like them more attacking and dangerous.

I like the RPG stuff like adding the items you want on your character too.

But here is the bad part about what I can't stand!

I don't feel there are "many places to go", walking on the map isn't sufficent for me, more places would have been better, I like the sensation of freedom.

The interactivity between the objects ( or using any others icons ) in the inventory are none-existant, there was quite more imagination on the inventory in QFG4 ( and even more at 200% in Freddy Pharkas ). It's just removed, visiting my pockets has never been so boring in QFG5, it doesn't makes you want to mix items and it makes me forgetting about my pockets unless it is "important".

Then, there are crashes and freezing. Again, I felt the game had a serious disease called *release the game before christmas* ( very destructive on everything for a game ), and the game ( like too many other games ), didn't had the time to get healed of the problems, and you've got to download a patch again...

Another things I don't like in a game is a "do it all" cursor. QFG5 only gave the choice to look or to do ( talking to someone, move a rock or even touching the ghost instead of talking to him; I never understood what he was doing here )... There's still the choices of what you want to do in a list but I didn't like the fact I only got two icons. Same apply for putting some spells and objects in a belt, I didn't liked the concept.

When there are many things missing for a game, it always gives a feeling of unfinished. So the game miss many things for an honest success...

For anything else, I think Erpy already told the cons of QFG5. About the time and walk of the hero, he's got a good speed of walking for me, it's the time going too fast that might be the problem.

[Vildern]

Regarding the QFG series, it seems like I'm the oddball here. I think they were all *flops*. I think, though, that QFG5 was a lesser *flop*

[Erpy]

Regarding the QFG series, it seems like I'm the oddball here. I think they were all *flops*. I think, though, that QFG5 was a lesser *flop*

The QFG series were too succesful to be considered flops regardless of your personal opinion. It would be nice if you could provide an argument to back up your claim (like the list I posted earlier), because I'm curious to the origin of your reasoning.

[Jafar]

Regarding the QFG series, it seems like I'm the oddball here. I think they were all *flops*. I think, though, that QFG5 was a lesser *flop*

Surely ye jest!

[Vildern]

Ok, but it all comes down to personal taste

The tons of dialogues and lack of a speech pack (in the first four)... made it boring. - Main reason.

In QFG2, the alleys - weren't fun, it was hard to tell where you were.

The dialogues were uninspired. Bad.

I don't remember this feature in the first games, but in QFG5 there was a feature called: Stamina. Why couldn't just let you run forever?

The graphics of QFG1 made my eyes sore. Same with QFG2's.

In QFG3, the sprites were not my type. For example:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/shots/p,2 ... hotId,640/

Look, they are not interesting. That lion man... I don't know what causes it, maybe the lack of color.

The plot was never that amazing, to lure you play further (in all of them).

I didn't like the system: "Ask about", you could easily skip stuff.

Regarding QFG2 and the SCI version of QFG1: Having a game, in which you have to type a lot, is not fun. In KQ4 you didn't have to type a lot.

All in all, it has been a while since I last played these games, and in most of them I didn't go deep.

The remake of QFG2, in which you don't have to type, and has better graphics and music, should be good, I'm sure.

If you say that "Whether or not a game is a flop" is a fact, and it's not be decided by people, then this thread is pointless: "QFGV - Triumph or Flop?” But, if people could debate if it's a flop, meaning it was way of of the games they liked, then I'm entitled to say: "they were all flops"

[Klytos]

As to the word "flop" I think (and I could be wrong here) that V made a loss for Sierra, so I'd call that a commercial flop. The original Hero Quest was the best selling game of 1989 so I don't think that could be called a flop. But Vildern's right, it's more of a personal choice on whether a game is a "flop" or not.

I hated QFG5. I mean I really hated it. I thought the series peaked at Shadows of Darkness, and Dragonfire was a real letdown after that.

Things I Liked.....
The backgrounds were well drawn and well detailed.
The soundtrack was good.
The basic concept of the story was good.

Things I hated.
Combat. This was nothing like the previous games, and I personally don't see what sort of combat engine they were trying to develop here, but it didn't work well I think.

Dialog portraits. After the full screen portraits in Shadows those pissy little faces were just crap. Even KQ5 had better dialog portraits than that.

The Story. While the basic comcepts were good, I like Greek stuff so that was cool, they never developed the story to the potential of the other series. Each of the games added something to the character of the hero, in the original he became a hero, in Trial he became a master of his trade, in 3 he develped skills which were needed to defeat the major enemy in Shadows. 5 never developed the character much. Sure, he got "hero" choices like marrying and stuff, but it wasn't .... wow stuff like the other games.

Magic. As Erpy already ouched on, there weren't any "special" stuff that needed just magic to solve. I always play as a magician first so this really sucked.

I could go on with a lot more, but Erpy's already "con"ed everything else I think.

[Erpy]

The tons of dialogues and lack of a speech pack (in the first four)... made it boring. - Main reason.

Actually, QFG4 had a voice version and it's also one of the best voice packs Sierra ever put out. I guess it's a matter of opinion whether lots of dialogues are good or bad. I personally like it if characters have a lot of things to share. I prefer it to characters just saying the same lines over and over again when you click the talk cursor on them.

In QFG2, the alleys - weren't fun, it was hard to tell where you were.

I agree, they were confusing at first. But with both the manual and the in-game map to help you, it's not a crippling flaw. It's not unlikely it was a copyprotection of some sort.

The dialogues were uninspired. Bad.

Hmmm, the only thing I can say is that I disagree...I thought the dialogues were written quite well, with only Gabriel Knight getting to the same level.

I don't remember this feature in the first games, but in QFG5 there was a feature called: Stamina. Why couldn't just let you run forever?

It's been in QFG from the beginning, as it's been part of the realism of the game. Just like you need to eat or sleep, you also need to rest every now and then. You can't run around forever in real life without getting tired either.

I didn't like the system: "Ask about", you could easily skip stuff.

I personally thought it was an interesting way to converse, rather than just having characters say fixed lines. It was kinda fun in the parser games to find out about a new topic and then asking it to all characters to get their opinion on it.

All in all, it has been a while since I last played these games, and in most of them I didn't go deep.

That's a shame, because that's what it takes to enjoy the stories and the dialogues. If you just wander around without getting information from people, you'll miss out on a lot.

[Meerbat]

Much has already been said that I agree with, so I will just comment some more on the magic in QFG5. (Btw, has anyone ever beaten the game as a fighter, and were there interesting puzzles/subquests for that character?)
They should have waited some more and added the game you have to beat Erasmus at, in order to get the Whirlwind spell.
The glowing blue light when using the detect spell was a nice touch though.
There should have also added magical duels, like in Wages of War, for example, I loved those.
Those Centaurs could have been made much more interesting as oponents.
Magic puzzles, like the ones in QFG1VGA (Erana's garden, Hermit's cave, etc) and in QFG4 (Erana's garden, and inside Avoozl's caves) would have also been very welcome.
The Oracle should have had some sort of extra magical quest.
And last, but not least, they should have included a familiar spell.

[Jafar]

(Btw, has anyone ever beaten the game as a fighter, and were there interesting puzzles/subquests for that character?)

Mostly breaking down doors and throwing rocks. He does have the EOF subquest though.

[Blackthorne519]

As to the word "flop" I think (and I could be wrong here) that V made a loss for Sierra, so I'd call that a commercial flop. The original Hero Quest was the .......

By the way, it's "HERO'S" Quest. Possesive. Hero Quest was the Milton Bradley game. Just a minor moot point.

Bt

And Erpy, speaking of the Alleyway layout in QFG2VGA......... how is AGDI handling that? I remember long ago (in a FAQ far, far away) it was said the layout will be totally different and easy to navigate...... anyword on that?

[Erpy]

Sorry, the alleyways are one of those "blab and you're dead" subjects.

[The Knight]

Sorry, the alleyways are one of those "blab and you're dead" subjects.

I'm sure we could find someone to replace you.
Just Kidding.

Anyway, now we can return to the topic.

[Blackthorne519]

Sorry, the alleyways are one of those "blab and you're dead" subjects.

Heh. Figured as much. Just seeing what we can find out...... heh. I'm actually the most curious about that; how they're handled is a good example of game design, or re-design in this case. I'm sure it wasn't easy. If I had to rethink how to do something in an already established game, I might go nuts, because you don't want to change the game's plot or direction - or feel - yet you have to change something.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, that feature of the AGDI remake is what I'm actually looking forward to the most, from my game designing POV.

Bt

[Radiant]

What I didn't like about QfGV was its total overdose of combat. I mean, you get seven missions plus the dragon battle at the end, and except for the Oracle visit, each and every mission consists of "go here, kill things and bring back object X to prove you've done it"
There's very little room for doing clever stuff, and for instance most of your utility spells have no function in the game. I would have wanted more puzzles in the game, by far. All in all it felt more like a game of Quake or Crusader: No Remorse than a QfG game.

Plus they've omitted a number of obvious actions. For instance, I wanted to help Gnome Ann by simply giving her a thousand gold pieces (I had plenty anyway) but you can't. Or Fetch the missing basket and run away before the goons hit me. Speaking of which, why would a simple basket be guarded by goons??

Out of curiosity I took an old savegame and rescued Katrina rather than Erana. And she comes up with "Gee, I'm sorry what happened in Mordavia, I never thought the innoncent villagers would be hurt if I summoned the Dark One", come on, do they call that a plotline? Oh and speaking of poor plotting, I wasn't even remotely surprised by the 'revelation' of the chief bad guy; in fact I wanted to accuse and/or kill him five missions earlier but of course that isn't possible either.

All in all, I enjoyed the part at the beginning where you get to walk around pretty Silmaria and meet a lot of old friends. Then after that it just gets repetitive with combat. Disappointing; I didn't even bother replaying it as a different class.