Why does Windows still suck?

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Charlemagne · #1 Post by **Charlemagne** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:28 pm

Last night I was playing my newly-purchased copy of Neverwinter Nights: Platinum Edition. My sorcerer had just finished delivering a long-range butt-kicking and was moving in to inspect the booty when frustratingly, but not unexpectedly, the sound began looping and the mouse wouldn't move. Shortly thereafter, NWN abruptly ended with that oh-so-apologetic dialogue box stating that "Windows XP has encountered an error".

So I started thinking. How come Windows still sucks so much when it comes to stability and security? I have the service packs; I have the hotfixes; I have the latest drivers. Still, it makes no difference! After a decade-long history of security holes, virus exploits and shoddy stability, Microsoft still hasn't seen fit to put their house in order. It used to be that problems like these were considered design or engineering flaws to be fixed. Nowadays, however, they're par for the course. So why haven't people reacted? Where are the torch-carrying lynch mobs of Windows users, tired of waiting for the next virus to appear? I'm glad I only use Windows for games.

Blackthorne519 · #2 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:32 pm

Cause it's code is from the 80's!!

Bt

Charlemagne · #3 Post by **Charlemagne** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:59 pm

Just because it's old doesn't mean it has to suck. Look at the BSD operating systems. They're based on code from the early 80s and all are light years ahead of Windows in stability and security.

rosel1 · #4 Post by **rosel1** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:35 pm

Yeah, my computer has crashed twice in the past year, despite numerous updates.

Blackthorne519 · #5 Post by **Blackthorne519** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:08 am

Okay..... it sucks because

Microsoft is just a huge corporation that's not interested in perfect software, or even good software - they're interested in your money, and obtaining lots of it. Part of that unsavory business act is conciously putting out products that suck. I believe that.

Bt

rosel1 · #6 Post by **rosel1** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:23 am

Charlemagne wrote:Last night I was playing my newly-purchased copy of Neverwinter Nights: Platinum Edition. My sorcerer had just finished delivering a long-range butt-kicking and was moving in to inspect the booty when frustratingly, but not unexpectedly, the sound began looping and the mouse wouldn't move. Shortly thereafter, NWN abruptly ended with that oh-so-apologetic dialogue box stating that "Windows XP has encountered an error".

Well...we all know how Windows sucks...how was Neverwinter Nights? I thought about buying it a while back...but I wasn't sure if it was any good. ;)

Heh, I remember a friend of mine getting into an argument about Windows with a customer service rep on the Windows Help site. She was giving them advice on how to improve their service...they didn't like that very much. They continued sending her suggestions on what was wrong and why...it didn't have anything to do with the problem she was encountering. Needless to say, in the end, she blocked the Windows Help guy...and reported him as a spammer :p :\ .

Schloss Ritter · #7 Post by **Schloss Ritter** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:45 am

Last I heard, Microsoft's policy was to release new versions of software when they're 75-80% bug free. Later patches take care of some bugs, but new ones are discovered, so it ends up staying buggy. Also, instead of perfecting the current operating system, they instead concentrate on developing and selling new ones at ever increasing rates.

Swift · #8 Post by **Swift** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:00 am

rose1: I like NWN a lot. It's a pretty fun game and you should try to get a copy!

Parhelion · #9 Post by **Parhelion** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:18 am

First off, I'm not a fan of Microsoft . . . but there are exponentially more people trying to hack and otherwise exploit Windows than other OS's have to contend with.

If hundreds of millions of people used the Mac OS to send e-mail, store there personal info, process credit card transactions online, etc., I'm sure Apple would be running into there share of problems.

Look at the alternatives. Most games and apps aren't available for the other OS's. And those that are are usually more unstable since less effort is put into those versions.

Here's a link to the technical support forum for the Linux version of Neverwinter Nights:

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewforum.html?forum=72

Not looking too good, is it?

Don't get me wrong. MS sucks. Bad. There's no excuse for Mozilla being better than Internet Explorer, and that's just the first example that comes to mind.

1eyedParrot · #10 Post by **1eyedParrot** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:29 am

Windows sucks because it has no incentive to do better. Microsoft has powerful and secret trade agreements with all the big hardware manufacturers. Microsoft controls 90% of the PC market share, at least. Until real competition comes along they won't bother with releasing good products. Hell, the next version, Longhorn, will require a 3D graphics card...a 3D accelerater just to run the operating system. Anyone even remotely knowlegdable about OS design knows this to positively retarded. The OS runs your computer, requiring a 3D card is a needless waste and the only reason its there to increase sales for hardware manufacturers who work in conjunction with Microsoft.

Now for a more technical explanation.

The OS itself is supposed to manage the computer with its varying hardware devices. This requires no graphics, whatsoever. A GUI is supposed to be an application that allows you to interface with the OS. The GUI should not be part of the OS itself. Therefor when the GUI crashes the OS doesn't crash, it reverts to a console mode with which you just reload the GUI application.

Def Zeppelin · #11 Post by **Def Zeppelin** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:47 am

Wanna know why windows sucks? Because Bill Gates is a greedy bastard, and can make his opperating system very powerful and stable, but he doesn't because he is a useless pile of flesh.

Radiant · #12 Post by **Radiant** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:52 am

Blackthorne519 wrote: Microsoft is just a huge corporation that's not interested in perfect software, or even good software - they're interested in your money, and obtaining lots of it.

I second that notion. Their track record in business is at best unsavory, and at worst entirely malicious.
For details, in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft read the part about business practice and lawsuits.

Also, interesting literature is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management which is about Microsoft's future plans, which are very scary and Orwellesque.

Charlemagne · #13 Post by **Charlemagne** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:20 pm

All of you have raised excellent points. I agree that there are many more people trying to crack Windows and find new exploits. I agree that a "good enough" business philosophy probably makes just as much money as a "best of breed" one. And I think that Longhorn will be a completely retarded example of an operating system, if it ever gets released. Still, that doesn't explain why rank-and-file consumers like us have accepted it. Why haven't people stormed en masse to Redmond, Wash., beat down the doors of Microsoft headquarters and demanded that Gates, Ballmer and rest do something about their lost productivity and dollars?

And to rosel1: NWN is a great game! I'm thrilled that I can finally have my sorcerer fight with a sword if I want. In fact, I went all out and gave him a double-bladed sword. He's awesome now.

Radiant · #14 Post by **Radiant** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:41 pm

Charlemagne wrote:Why haven't people stormed en masse to Redmond, Wash., beat down the doors of Microsoft headquarters and demanded that Gates, Ballmer and rest do something about their lost productivity and dollars?

The reason for me personally is that I can't swim that far.

Quest For Glory Fan · #15 Post by **Quest For Glory Fan** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:29 am

Wuss!

Parhelion · #16 Post by **Parhelion** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:04 am

If I may make an OT suggestion, now that you have NWN, download some of the fanmade modules. Some are quite a bit better than the included Bioware modules.

My favorite is the "Shadowlords" series, which continues in the "Dreamcatcher" series, available here:

http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/modules/da ... ler2.shtml

It's better in every way than the included campaigns.

Jafar · #17 Post by **Jafar** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:38 am

Everywhere I go I hear about NWN. And I STILL don't have it.

Pidgeot · #18 Post by **Pidgeot** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:04 am

The main reason Windows is so full of bugs is that it's closed-source and thus developed by a team of a limited size. Linux and the like are generally more stable and more secure because they are open-source and anyone with knowledge in the field can contribute.

It's the same reason that makes Microsoft fairly slow to correct security holes, as well as the fact that they HAVE to make sure their fix works 100%. If they don't, people will complain even more.

Of course, open-source is not the perfect solution it might seem. While you may be able to fix the errors quickly, you'll also be able to FIND them more quickly. And since "many chefs spoil the food", there's a much greater risk of there being security holes.

To do Microsoft justice, though; I must say they've done a great job with XP SP2. It will no doubt prevent many an inexperienced user from getting his computer infected with spyware and the like.

MuzlakOofmay · #19 Post by **MuzlakOofmay** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:11 pm

Am I the only one that backs Microsoft?

The reason why Windows has so many problems, security threats, and whatnot, is because hundreds of millions of users use it. If EVERYONE was using linux, I guarantee that there'd be just as many security threats.

I've messed with linux a lot, I hear about this kind of stuff, and make sure to keep up to date with exactly what's going on in the OS world, but what I see of linux is no better than Windows.

1) The beginners to linux are always told to start with Mandrake, Suse, etc.

2) These versions are extremely bloated, and are essentially a bunch of crap.

3) It never just installs, like Windows does.

4) The only way to get the true "linux experience" is to compile the code yourself, and that's not including the software that you want to install etc.

5) Every time I've ever tried using linux, it has been vastly inferior to Windows in terms of speed. Even if I'm not using X.

As a developer myself, I could make an excuse for compiling the source for installing applications. But for your average user, all they want is a simple, fast, OS to run on. So the average user never gets beyond using mandrake or suze becasuse they're so bloated that its not impressive. (Who needs 5 word processors?)

Essentially, as far as I see it, in order to get a true linux box that is comparable to a windows box is to download a slimmer version of linux (like gentoo), and compile the source code, install it and select packages (using the command prompt?), and voila. This sounds like a whole weekend long project, not a 45 minute long process as is the case for windows.

... and finally, it was probably your game that caused the error in windows in the first place.

Pidgeot · #20 Post by **Pidgeot** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:46 pm

MuzlakOofmay wrote:The reason why Windows has so many problems, security threats, and whatnot, is because hundreds of millions of users use it. If EVERYONE was using linux, I guarantee that there'd be just as many security threats.

All too true. And the exact same thing is bound to happen with Firefox as more and more people start to use it, despite what Mozilla evangelists may claim.

Radiant · #21 Post by **Radiant** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:49 pm

MuzlakOofmay wrote:The reason why Windows has so many problems, security threats, and whatnot, is because hundreds of millions of users use it. If EVERYONE was using linux, I guarantee that there'd be just as many security threats.

I don't think so. Microsoft's prime concern has always been marketing, and indeed it is very good at that. Other companies who focus primarily on creating a stable and solid piece of software, are better at that. For instance, MacOS did everything that Windows does, only five years earlier. Linux is inherently more stable and more secure than Windows.

One of the reasons it's so hard to get rid of ads and pop-ups in Explorer, is that Microsoft listens to a lobby that wants to advertise on the internet. Mozilla Firefox doesn't have that problem since it has different priorities.

Pidgeot · #22 Post by **Pidgeot** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:29 pm

Radiant wrote:Linux is inherently more stable and more secure than Windows.

Do you base this on the number of vulnerabilities found? It's obvious that vulnerabilities are found quicker in an OS with many users (Windows) than in one with few users (Linux or MacOS). If nothing else, then because malicious hackers target the more popular OS.

FatherGhostface · #23 Post by **FatherGhostface** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:02 pm

Well there's the theroy of master spies destroying the game becuase it contains a secret digibyte that they want! Quick, lets change your name, your face, and get you calf-implants!

Jafar · #24 Post by **Jafar** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:38 pm

I'd forgotten how much I missed his insanity.

Radiant · #25 Post by **Radiant** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:47 pm

Pidgeot wrote:It's obvious that vulnerabilities are found quicker in an OS with many users (Windows) than in one with few users (Linux or MacOS).

It may seem obvious, but it isn't true. For Linux, it's partially because the average Linux user is far more computer literate than the average Windows user; it's also because its open-sourcedness makes people go and fix an error - whereas in Windows you can only report it and hope they're listening. You'd be amazed how many web servers or routers run Apache or other Linux systems. And yes, hackers target that. A lot.

I'm not just talking security, either. We've all seen how often windows crashes, hangs or gives a blue screen of death. Macs don't crash unless you're doing it on purpose (and often not even then) and in Linux you can replace the whole kernel and the system will keep running.

One of the reasons why windows used to be so faulty is that it uses legacy code from MS-Dos (NT and XP don't any more). Another is that Windows simply assumes that the user will be dumb, so in general you will not get enough (or indeed any) information to fix something. The third is that Microsoft has always put its priority on market domination, and breaks standards and promises at will if it thinks that will increase its power. Survival of the fittest, no?

Why does Windows still suck?

Why does Windows still suck?

Re: Why does Windows still suck?

Oh dear!